NJS Pilots - 97% vote for Protected Industrial Action
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: South O Equator
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ITCZ, thankyou for taking the time to explain what the outcomes to this action was. I hadn't come across the result in such a concise reply yet.
What was the net result for the pilots who were employed on the renowned "B" scale? Are the AWA's they signed on the lesser amount still being adhered to or have their conditions been improved? Does it also mean then that if NJS recruit now that new recruits would be on the same starting conditions as people who had joined 6 months ago under the "B" scale arrangement? I ask because many people were hesitant to apply to NJS while this action was looming and the result of being employed while these issues were still up in the air.
What was the net result for the pilots who were employed on the renowned "B" scale? Are the AWA's they signed on the lesser amount still being adhered to or have their conditions been improved? Does it also mean then that if NJS recruit now that new recruits would be on the same starting conditions as people who had joined 6 months ago under the "B" scale arrangement? I ask because many people were hesitant to apply to NJS while this action was looming and the result of being employed while these issues were still up in the air.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Perth
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You lot don't deserve to be paid. If I had my way, you would all be paying your boss's for the priveldge of flying their aircraft. I was liasing with the previous government about this. I find it unfathomable that anyone would even consider voting Labor.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: australia
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aircraft
god no! .....he's back
the gentlemen wearing white coats and carrying butterfly nets are letting the team down.
however, it is fun to read the above ramblings. if nothing else at least i feel a sense of superiority. ok, the village idiot would also feel superior
the gentlemen wearing white coats and carrying butterfly nets are letting the team down.
however, it is fun to read the above ramblings. if nothing else at least i feel a sense of superiority. ok, the village idiot would also feel superior
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Perth
Age: 54
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Somewhere out there there is a village missing it's idiot and I know where he is. 
Get used to a new way of doing things. The people have spoken and they don't like your way of thinkin boy.
Just by changing one little letter, how long oh lord how long.
Get used to a new way of doing things. The people have spoken and they don't like your way of thinkin boy.
Just by changing one little letter, how long oh lord how long.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Outa Space
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Will new pilots be employed on the ECA? Is the B scale written into the ECA?
The new ECA will NOT include a B scale if anyone can help it.
To sign a 5 year Interim AWA in the current climate would stand you alongside Aircraft and the other Village idiots.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Papua New Guinea
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Unscrupulous newbies destroyed the viability of GA, and now it's happening to scheduled air services. Will it always be so.
Don't be like Mr Blaster who has his conditions protected and let the newbies take whatever is offered.
Bushy, if you ARE laying something on the line, then you have every right to say what you said and I'll offer apologies. But if the newbies see no support from the guys already on board, then I wish them the best of luck.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
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.....still single,
If Bushy is wrong, how then do you categorise a newbie paying a company $40k for a Dash 8 Endorsement and a job, in doing so reducing the numbers of positions available guys/girls coming out of GA.
This is exactly what Bushy is refering too, in the same way these idiots would fly for free, fly the Chieftain for the C182 rates, daddy buy them an aeroplane, daddy pay the CP a back hander to employ little johnny/jenny (as applicable).
If Bushy is wrong, how then do you categorise a newbie paying a company $40k for a Dash 8 Endorsement and a job, in doing so reducing the numbers of positions available guys/girls coming out of GA.
This is exactly what Bushy is refering too, in the same way these idiots would fly for free, fly the Chieftain for the C182 rates, daddy buy them an aeroplane, daddy pay the CP a back hander to employ little johnny/jenny (as applicable).
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Papua New Guinea
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Shed Dog
I don't like the idea of paying for endorsements or flying for free etc.
My (potential) first job fell through because the cross hired aircraft involved came complete with a pilot (the owners son). What can you do?
GA is a dogs breakfast, there is some good, lots of bad and I think it is beyond fixing.
Back to NJS, that can be fixed. But it's no use these guys fighting for their own conditions and leaving newcomers to sort out their own terms.
If you expect newbies to reject whats being offered, then the guys/girls already on board should be prepared to take action to back them.
I don't like the idea of paying for endorsements or flying for free etc.
My (potential) first job fell through because the cross hired aircraft involved came complete with a pilot (the owners son). What can you do?
GA is a dogs breakfast, there is some good, lots of bad and I think it is beyond fixing.
Back to NJS, that can be fixed. But it's no use these guys fighting for their own conditions and leaving newcomers to sort out their own terms.
If you expect newbies to reject whats being offered, then the guys/girls already on board should be prepared to take action to back them.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Adelaide
Age: 62
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Wanted: A few good Pilots
Come and join us.
Please hurry so we can beat Kevin 07's push to abolish AWAs.
We have a great opportunity to ensure that we have the most competitively paid and most productive Pilot workforce around.
Since inflation is on the rise we may even trim a little fat off the B-scale salaries to help with the greater good.
Now that Minima has left us we need others to join Blaster on our AWAs.
Please apply ASAP.
Please hurry so we can beat Kevin 07's push to abolish AWAs.
We have a great opportunity to ensure that we have the most competitively paid and most productive Pilot workforce around.
Since inflation is on the rise we may even trim a little fat off the B-scale salaries to help with the greater good.
Now that Minima has left us we need others to join Blaster on our AWAs.
Please apply ASAP.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Alice Springs
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It's here, now.
Low cost flying. It doesn't exist. But the public want it, and the airline business is now the ruthless business that we saw in GA. And airlines in Australia are less able to find a "protected workshop" to live in like they used to and they know other competitors are coming. The Low cost model requires every economic advantage to be fiercely exploited. Others will be doing it.
That's why they are recruiting newbies, who will work cheap and stay with them, rather than employing the more experienced who want more, and can be mobile. And newbies now pay for their own training.
That's why they are crying to the government about the pilot shortage, and trying to get govt to finance training.
That's why they have the minimum number of bases and facilities. (Tiger wiped Alice Springs because of ground crew problems)
That's why they cancel the less profitable routes rather than employ experienced pilots.
There always have been plenty of newbies, and our flying schools have done well out of them until recently. There always will be plenty of wannabies, and the airlines will do well out of them.
The airline business is changing. GA is usually an indicator of what is coming for the airlines.
That's my opinion.
That's why they are recruiting newbies, who will work cheap and stay with them, rather than employing the more experienced who want more, and can be mobile. And newbies now pay for their own training.
That's why they are crying to the government about the pilot shortage, and trying to get govt to finance training.
That's why they have the minimum number of bases and facilities. (Tiger wiped Alice Springs because of ground crew problems)
That's why they cancel the less profitable routes rather than employ experienced pilots.
There always have been plenty of newbies, and our flying schools have done well out of them until recently. There always will be plenty of wannabies, and the airlines will do well out of them.
The airline business is changing. GA is usually an indicator of what is coming for the airlines.
That's my opinion.
That's why they are recruiting newbies, who will work cheap and stay with them,
Remember a few years ago when banks were closing branches everywhere, now the reverse is happening because they realised they needed branches to connect with their customers.
Well guess what, when your low cost employees walk away for better paying jobs elsewhere you may have to look at how you treat those employees.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth
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Rigid wage systems have always been the enemy of real wage increases across the board for all
1) The awards will return as the line in the sand, i.e you will not be payed below this.
Note: the AFAP awards applies in some states and not others, some companies are Appendix A respondents, some are not.
This will change, so new CPL working in their first flying job will be paid no less a minimum award wage for a CPL holding Pilot, and as per required ratings.
2) Supply and demand, you will still have the ability to negotiate as you and your company are happy to agree on, the abolishment of AWA's does not end the present Pilot shortage, therefore the trend of above award wages will continue whilst ever there is a shortage of suitably experienced staff.
Companies competing for experienced Pilots, who would have thought ?.
3) You will be able to choose your Superannuation provider.
4) Unfair dismissal protection, yes it does happen.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Good to see you back Digger Frozo, I thought you'd be crying in the corner with last weeks result of all those stupid people ousting your beacon of economic logic. Maintain that rage.
As to your fine call of rigid wage systems holding down wages as economic fact, I'd like you to do some research on Republic of Irelands regulated wage system and note the per capita income. Then you can check out Denamrks highly unionised workforce and check out their average wage of 38,0000 and compare that with our own? Then maybe check out Sweden, Norway and a host of other DEVELOPED countries. Stop using the U.S. as your economic model or you'll end up sub primed. They are not the be all and end all of economics and it's time people started understanding that.
Where are your economic facts? It's easy to make broad statements and pop out the odd little gem to support your argument, but others can do that too. I'll show you how AWA's and unregulated wage systems will lower wages and make peoples lives harder. Keep running with the unemployment call too, nice to see the underemployed getting a look in. Give 2 people jobs for $5 and don't hire one for $10. Third world ideas.
Ciao
As to your fine call of rigid wage systems holding down wages as economic fact, I'd like you to do some research on Republic of Irelands regulated wage system and note the per capita income. Then you can check out Denamrks highly unionised workforce and check out their average wage of 38,0000 and compare that with our own? Then maybe check out Sweden, Norway and a host of other DEVELOPED countries. Stop using the U.S. as your economic model or you'll end up sub primed. They are not the be all and end all of economics and it's time people started understanding that.
Where are your economic facts? It's easy to make broad statements and pop out the odd little gem to support your argument, but others can do that too. I'll show you how AWA's and unregulated wage systems will lower wages and make peoples lives harder. Keep running with the unemployment call too, nice to see the underemployed getting a look in. Give 2 people jobs for $5 and don't hire one for $10. Third world ideas.
Ciao
Last edited by Whiskey Oscar Golf; 2nd Dec 2007 at 09:40. Reason: spilling
Join Date: Mar 2001
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PAF,
That is a rather one eyed view of the facts.
Higher wages = the company can afford less employee's, no arguement from me on that one.
Lower wages = can not afford a mortgage, fuel for the car, school camps for the kiddies.
So we need to find some middle ground right ?.
The present Labor governemt ( lefties ) are more left of centre than completely left, so the possibility of return to the "extremeist unionism" is both highly unlikely and highly desirable.
The economic arguements have two groups with needs:
* how can a company conduct its business without the correct number of staff employed at a sustainable wage (the lower the better), in broad terms a Righty/Liberal statement, and,
* how can a family survive without an appropriate income (the higher the better) that meets their needs ( house prices, car etc etc ), in broad terms a lefty/Labor statement.
There needs to be a middle ground, the Work Choices was not offering that, whilst considering your response, have you been employed on an AWA ?.
How could a Union possibly do this ?, i would like to see appropriate minimums set, reflective of the skill set and market value, then cast it in stone as the minimum.
Unions generally ensure the income is reflective of the job, as the job evolves with new technologies and work practices and ensure the wages does not depreciate due to the "non-application" of CPI increases, you might then ask, well if companies were honest about the above "who needs Unions/ the ombudsmen", do a search on their web sites and see how many organisation are not being honest, a great many.
Big business is its own worst enemy, if employees had no need for a union, why would they need a union, if you catch my drift.
That is a rather one eyed view of the facts.
Higher wages = the company can afford less employee's, no arguement from me on that one.
Lower wages = can not afford a mortgage, fuel for the car, school camps for the kiddies.
So we need to find some middle ground right ?.
The present Labor governemt ( lefties ) are more left of centre than completely left, so the possibility of return to the "extremeist unionism" is both highly unlikely and highly desirable.
The economic arguements have two groups with needs:
* how can a company conduct its business without the correct number of staff employed at a sustainable wage (the lower the better), in broad terms a Righty/Liberal statement, and,
* how can a family survive without an appropriate income (the higher the better) that meets their needs ( house prices, car etc etc ), in broad terms a lefty/Labor statement.
There needs to be a middle ground, the Work Choices was not offering that, whilst considering your response, have you been employed on an AWA ?.
Unions never have and never will "provide" for real wage increases across the board
Unions generally ensure the income is reflective of the job, as the job evolves with new technologies and work practices and ensure the wages does not depreciate due to the "non-application" of CPI increases, you might then ask, well if companies were honest about the above "who needs Unions/ the ombudsmen", do a search on their web sites and see how many organisation are not being honest, a great many.
Big business is its own worst enemy, if employees had no need for a union, why would they need a union, if you catch my drift.
Last edited by Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower; 2nd Dec 2007 at 18:43.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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With our ecomomy in its present state a twelve year old could balance the books.
Kevin Rudd has offered F/A, he is still the Prime Minister Elect right, we will not see his input to the economy for sometime.
There will always be unemployed, there will always be the unemployable and there will always those employed that should not be.
The Military harbours many of the the second and third types ( the professionally institutionlised ), tell me i'm wrong PAF ?, lucky you guys aren't truely performance based, hows this different to the real world ?.
You just love those broad unfounded sweeping statements.
It is clear you are of a very different political persuasion and mindset to myself, have a good night and good luck.
Kevin Rudd has offered F/A, he is still the Prime Minister Elect right, we will not see his input to the economy for sometime.
There will always be unemployed, there will always be the unemployable and there will always those employed that should not be.
The Military harbours many of the the second and third types ( the professionally institutionlised ), tell me i'm wrong PAF ?, lucky you guys aren't truely performance based, hows this different to the real world ?.
If you don't like that link pull out ANY economics
It is clear you are of a very different political persuasion and mindset to myself, have a good night and good luck
.