Finally, some balls - NJS Pilots take industrial action
You do not have the right to not go backwards, and my blurb about the nature of the industry was to show that you pretty much have to go backwards, so you should be expecting it.
If I was the last qualified person to be able to fly a B777, then by your reckoning, I can set my own pay?
"Flexibility" works both ways.
If there is ever a shortage of pilots, watch companies run to unions seeking a common award as fast as they can.
Meanwhile if there is a surplus,,,,,,, individual agreements are the way to go.
.................Hypocrits!
Capt Claret,
Thanks for the description. It seems the writing is on the wall, writ large, and says "thou shalt go backwards". Do you think this requirement has been imposed by the nature of the industry, or is due to government IR policies or has been caused by poor management?
RENURPP,
If the company is refusing to comply with certain terms and conditions in your agreement then I cannot not agree with your action, but the proposed industrial action is about more than just that isn't it?
A question for you now: do you believe your company is being honest to you with its explanations of, and justifications for, the things it is doing?
Thanks for the description. It seems the writing is on the wall, writ large, and says "thou shalt go backwards". Do you think this requirement has been imposed by the nature of the industry, or is due to government IR policies or has been caused by poor management?
RENURPP,
If the company is refusing to comply with certain terms and conditions in your agreement then I cannot not agree with your action, but the proposed industrial action is about more than just that isn't it?
A question for you now: do you believe your company is being honest to you with its explanations of, and justifications for, the things it is doing?
do you believe your company is being honest to you with its explanations of, and justifications for, the things it is doing?
They cannot justify it.Not even to the courts.
If the company is refusing to comply with certain terms and conditions in your agreement then I cannot not agree with your action, but the proposed industrial action is about more than just that isn't it?
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Aircraft, you poor deluded management type/ s##t stirrer. Have been following your unadulterated, anonymous posts for the last little while and have finally had enough of your bull.
The bulk of NJS employees only want what is good for them and the company, as it helps us all, however with goddam hopeless management types with brains similar to yours running this operation into the ground, then there is not much hope.
However we have such a fantastic bunch of people that want to succeed, that are not prepared to prostitute themselves, and to achieve that end result, when it is not necessary, our illustrious management/owners want to screw us over!
Nah I do not think so. NJS/COBHAM have the best bunch of people, like a whole lot of other Companies, that have been willing to go the extra yard for a long time to keep their Employers business running in their, and the Companies interest.
And funnily enough that's what keeps most companies going. If only we, as a very small, insignificant, rare commodity in this aviation world, continue to support our chosen Employer then they may well continue to prosper.
The bulk of NJS employees only want what is good for them and the company, as it helps us all, however with goddam hopeless management types with brains similar to yours running this operation into the ground, then there is not much hope.
However we have such a fantastic bunch of people that want to succeed, that are not prepared to prostitute themselves, and to achieve that end result, when it is not necessary, our illustrious management/owners want to screw us over!
Nah I do not think so. NJS/COBHAM have the best bunch of people, like a whole lot of other Companies, that have been willing to go the extra yard for a long time to keep their Employers business running in their, and the Companies interest.
And funnily enough that's what keeps most companies going. If only we, as a very small, insignificant, rare commodity in this aviation world, continue to support our chosen Employer then they may well continue to prosper.
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Originally Posted by Pass-A-Frozo
Striking is good for the company?
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Blind Leading The Entwined !?
While I am happy to normally read rather than enter these rambling blogs, for those of us more objective than cynical it needs to be reminded that NJS did not pay CPI only to pilots whose AWA's had been replaced by a new AWA AGREED AND ENDORSED by our nominated pilot committee. My view was that the new AWA, while not optimal, was the best outcome that could be achieved by the old pilot group on our behalf which was also agreed by all of us in support of the QF contract that NJS subsequently obtained. I for one, will not support any action stimulated by propoganda by a bunch of pilots that reneged on that deal to serve their own greed to maintain superior pay than the rest of us who followed through & signed. Now they want us to turn on the company & help them lose money instead of finding more ways to make more money under a signed agreed proviso that it will be shared with us. Get real guys, we are in a business & in the end the more we fragment the business the more we ALL have to lose. 
RENURPP,
Regarding the honesty of the management: leaving aside the issue of their alleged non-compliance with certain terms and conditions, if it could be shown that they were being completely honest with respect to the other things that are in dispute, would that change your attitude?
Ross Oakley,
Your idea of what is best for the company is most probably flawed. If you are only a pilot then you will most probably see things with the blinkered view that most pilots have.
The vast majority of pilots tend to be spectacularly ignorant of the business and management aspects of their companies and I'm sure the NJS pilots are no exception.
It seems to be a tradition among pilots to regard their management as inept. How many pilots do you know that have a favourable view of their management?
Answer me this: do you think a group of NJS pilots could replace the current management and do a better job?
I am not a "management type", by the way. I am a GA pilot that has nothing to do with any management. Unlike you however, I am a realist that understands and accepts the nature of the aviation industry and my position in it.
Regarding the honesty of the management: leaving aside the issue of their alleged non-compliance with certain terms and conditions, if it could be shown that they were being completely honest with respect to the other things that are in dispute, would that change your attitude?
Ross Oakley,
Your idea of what is best for the company is most probably flawed. If you are only a pilot then you will most probably see things with the blinkered view that most pilots have.
The vast majority of pilots tend to be spectacularly ignorant of the business and management aspects of their companies and I'm sure the NJS pilots are no exception.
It seems to be a tradition among pilots to regard their management as inept. How many pilots do you know that have a favourable view of their management?
Answer me this: do you think a group of NJS pilots could replace the current management and do a better job?
I am not a "management type", by the way. I am a GA pilot that has nothing to do with any management. Unlike you however, I am a realist that understands and accepts the nature of the aviation industry and my position in it.
do you think a group of NJS pilots could replace the current management and do a better job?
The answer is YES, I suggest there would be pilots amongst our group who could do a better job!
BLASTER666
My view was that the new AWA, while not optimal, was the best outcome that could be achieved by the old pilot group on our behalf which was also agreed by all of us in support of the QF contract that NJS subsequently obtained.
I for one, will not support any action stimulated by propoganda by a bunch of pilots that reneged on that deal to serve their own greed to maintain superior pay than the rest of us who followed through & signed.
Industrial law does not allow a group of individuals, some of whom were not elected, to represent other pilots who are not even members of your band of heroes’. Even if it does suit managements needs.
Last edited by RENURPP; 3rd Oct 2007 at 03:30.
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Blaster 666
You are misguided and have been brainwashed.
READ A BOOK, preferably an IR Law Book before posting again.
You need to dig a little deeper to ascertain who was representing whom and who signed what when.
You were played like a brand new harpsichord.
You are misguided and have been brainwashed.
READ A BOOK, preferably an IR Law Book before posting again.
You need to dig a little deeper to ascertain who was representing whom and who signed what when.
You were played like a brand new harpsichord.
Last edited by David_Webb; 10th Sep 2007 at 21:28.
With due respect, you guys and girls will continue to feed the monkeys.... Just ignore them. Their arguments are floored in many ways and in all honesty could well be a tool/tactic being used to draw your strategy out into the open so as to be used against you.
Look up the term narcissism. You might get the drift of what really turns them on.
P_A_F. Do you want a mechanic to embarrass you again? Give it a rest. Did you ever think of trying understand why it has gotten to this point? Don't post your answer, go away and think about it.
Look up the term narcissism. You might get the drift of what really turns them on.
P_A_F. Do you want a mechanic to embarrass you again? Give it a rest. Did you ever think of trying understand why it has gotten to this point? Don't post your answer, go away and think about it.
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Hold Out Your Hand Boys !
Together - we'll never be defeated !!
Hey I know - let's not let the bastards pay us our $7500 retention bonus this January and tell 'em to stick next year's as well. That'll fix em.
Oh.....hang on that would only reduce the things we've got to bitch about in terms of how bad we are off working 77 hours a month for $126k plus allowances and $7500 for each of the next 2 years in bonuses regardless of the company's profitability !!!
In terms of industrial law, I would have thought the contract that we signed largely governed our terms which reads in mine (and I am sure in yours)
The Employer shall consult with the National Jet Systems Pilot Group Committee as the recognised bargaining agent of the Pilot and each other Pilot employed by the Employer in relation to any variation of the provisions of this AWA and the negotiation of any successor agreement.
mmmmmmmmmmm..........it seems we agreed to something that was surposed to work in our favour and are now don't like the fact that the company abides by the provisions. Damn.......the agreement was only surpose to work in our favour wasn't it !!????
Let's get the WO to fix it for us. They won't know about the fact that that we are reneging on our deal. In fact, if we don't look in the mirror we won't ever believe that either.
Damn that old pilot group for selling out our interests.
I bet the current pilot group would never do anything that might hurt NJS pilots interests in the long term would it !!!!!!???????
Hey I know - let's not let the bastards pay us our $7500 retention bonus this January and tell 'em to stick next year's as well. That'll fix em.
Oh.....hang on that would only reduce the things we've got to bitch about in terms of how bad we are off working 77 hours a month for $126k plus allowances and $7500 for each of the next 2 years in bonuses regardless of the company's profitability !!!
In terms of industrial law, I would have thought the contract that we signed largely governed our terms which reads in mine (and I am sure in yours)
The Employer shall consult with the National Jet Systems Pilot Group Committee as the recognised bargaining agent of the Pilot and each other Pilot employed by the Employer in relation to any variation of the provisions of this AWA and the negotiation of any successor agreement.
mmmmmmmmmmm..........it seems we agreed to something that was surposed to work in our favour and are now don't like the fact that the company abides by the provisions. Damn.......the agreement was only surpose to work in our favour wasn't it !!????
Let's get the WO to fix it for us. They won't know about the fact that that we are reneging on our deal. In fact, if we don't look in the mirror we won't ever believe that either.
Damn that old pilot group for selling out our interests.
I bet the current pilot group would never do anything that might hurt NJS pilots interests in the long term would it !!!!!!???????
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blaster 666 wrote:
Excuse me, but that is not a 'Bonus', that is MY money that I have salary sacrificed to pay for an endorsement which the company needed 'help' in paying for to get the contract. 
AND they wrote it into the AWA to pay it back!!! It is no way a bonus!
Some people have NO idea!
$7500 for each of the next 2 years in bonuses regardless of the company's profitability !!!
AND they wrote it into the AWA to pay it back!!! It is no way a bonus!
Some people have NO idea!
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Blaster 666
Riddle me this.
Apply some critical thought and find the answers to the following questions;
1. In the clause you mentioned, which party is appointing the NJSPG as your Bargaining Agent? The Employer or the Employee?
2. Which clause in the Workplace Relations Act (pre-reform or Work Choices) covers AWA Bargaining Agents?
3.Who may appoint them?
4.What is the required process?
5.Acting as an Agent, Can Anybody legally oblige you to make a contract with another party?
6. Did your Bargaining Agents sign the AWA commended to you?
7.If so, when? On what date?
No more dirty laundry in public PM to answers to me.
Riddle me this.
Apply some critical thought and find the answers to the following questions;
1. In the clause you mentioned, which party is appointing the NJSPG as your Bargaining Agent? The Employer or the Employee?
2. Which clause in the Workplace Relations Act (pre-reform or Work Choices) covers AWA Bargaining Agents?
3.Who may appoint them?
4.What is the required process?
5.Acting as an Agent, Can Anybody legally oblige you to make a contract with another party?
6. Did your Bargaining Agents sign the AWA commended to you?
7.If so, when? On what date?
No more dirty laundry in public PM to answers to me.
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Originally Posted by Pass-A-Frozo
Originally Posted by ITCZ
what else did you get for Christmas?