Mega Merged: Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Eba8 Negotiations
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: REAL WORLD
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let start
"bending over " !!!!!!!!
'. Its promotion time, hear ,hear , out come the ego's of the visitors and the greasy poles one has to climb to get a look in. i for one cannot understand why BFA get a direct entry into the csm position, when every css had to earn their strips in cattle class. guardy, please explain!
'. Its promotion time, hear ,hear , out come the ego's of the visitors and the greasy poles one has to climb to get a look in. i for one cannot understand why BFA get a direct entry into the csm position, when every css had to earn their strips in cattle class. guardy, please explain!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Striker vs Scab
None of us are happy with agreeing to lower pay and conditions for any future colleagues, but there is not much we can do about it. At least this way, we can protect our own incomes, whilst at the same time helping to create new jobs in Australia, rather than forcing people to go overseas to get jobs as a QF flight attendant.
Any current FA who has a problem with this has NO RIGHT to. We had a wave of union meetings and we voted unanimously to go down this path. Anyone who had a problem with it had their chance to speak up back then.
I'm still waiting to see the details and will attend a union meeting ASAP, but generally I think the FAAA has done an excellent job.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dununda
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bitter and Twisted X 2
Read Midnight-63 posts and you quickly come to the conclusion that he/she is in need of help.it is also obvious that the standard for CC has been severely compromised if someone like this can be employed.
Mr Paxing posts indicate that he/she does not have the necessary temperament to be an onboard manager.So Mr.Paxing complaints and concerns are void.
Mr Paxing posts indicate that he/she does not have the necessary temperament to be an onboard manager.So Mr.Paxing complaints and concerns are void.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To Flugbegleiter,
I agree with everything you said, as a matter of fact,I couldn't have said it better myself.
Please everyone attend the FAAA meetings get the facts and have your say in an open forum, it's your chance to voice your concerns and hear the opinion of others , everyone's future depends on it.
See you there Midnight, oh ,should I assume you're a member? Oh I forgot your a str1kebre@ker and therefore don't believe in unions or collective bargaining, but only worried that you won't be able to come back from New Zealand under the old award .
Why don't you talk to Geoff Dixon or Allison Webster about arranging your own individual Australian Workplace Agreement.
Sorry,too late since Kevin Rudd got voted in last week, but you never know , you could tell Dixon that you would love to work more hours for less pay, he would probably nominate you for an Excel award.
I agree with everything you said, as a matter of fact,I couldn't have said it better myself.
Please everyone attend the FAAA meetings get the facts and have your say in an open forum, it's your chance to voice your concerns and hear the opinion of others , everyone's future depends on it.
See you there Midnight, oh ,should I assume you're a member? Oh I forgot your a str1kebre@ker and therefore don't believe in unions or collective bargaining, but only worried that you won't be able to come back from New Zealand under the old award .
Why don't you talk to Geoff Dixon or Allison Webster about arranging your own individual Australian Workplace Agreement.
Sorry,too late since Kevin Rudd got voted in last week, but you never know , you could tell Dixon that you would love to work more hours for less pay, he would probably nominate you for an Excel award.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by left be4 primary
Why don't you talk to Geoff Dixon or Allison Webster about arranging your own individual Australian Workplace Agreement.
Sorry,too late since Kevin Rudd got voted in last week
Sorry,too late since Kevin Rudd got voted in last week
If you were wondering, less flexible employment arrangements = higher unemployment.
Left before Primary indeed!
Earwax anyone?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: crew rest
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well Midnight-63 has removed another one of his obnoxious posts, lucky it was copied by OCCR/ flugbegleiter
we do indeed have long memories.
midnight we are all waiting for your response!
as stated on here, we were prepared in 2004 to fight hard to maintain our conditions and you came in at the small wee hours and trained under the cover of darkness to undermine us, and now you ask us to fight for you!
one of the lowest comments on this forum!!!!!
we do indeed have long memories.
midnight we are all waiting for your response!
as stated on here, we were prepared in 2004 to fight hard to maintain our conditions and you came in at the small wee hours and trained under the cover of darkness to undermine us, and now you ask us to fight for you!
one of the lowest comments on this forum!!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dununda
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAF..aka ...IKE
Frozo is one of those rare individuals that knows everything...thanks to google.
IKE...I Know Everything..
Self opinionated self absorbed is our hyper googler....Mr Frozo...who,buy the way, has no tertiary credentials whatsoever
He will tell you he has,but wont tell you which institution he received them from
IKE...I Know Everything..
Self opinionated self absorbed is our hyper googler....Mr Frozo...who,buy the way, has no tertiary credentials whatsoever
He will tell you he has,but wont tell you which institution he received them from
Last edited by surfside6; 30th Nov 2007 at 23:03.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Geez SurfSide. So someone without tertiary qual's shouldn't be a professional pilot? Is that what you are saying?
I have a Cert III, a Diploma, 2 x Advanced Diploma's, a Bachelor's degree and 50% of a Masters underway.
Such is life though eh Surfside?
You've said you've been a great CC advocate for years... Well you've reduced my opinion of CC.
Oh.. and Surfside - Did you really need to use Google to work out that JH is still PM and that Earwax eater hasn't introduced any new legislation yet?
I have a Cert III, a Diploma, 2 x Advanced Diploma's, a Bachelor's degree and 50% of a Masters underway.
Such is life though eh Surfside?
You've said you've been a great CC advocate for years... Well you've reduced my opinion of CC.
Oh.. and Surfside - Did you really need to use Google to work out that JH is still PM and that Earwax eater hasn't introduced any new legislation yet?
Last edited by Pass-A-Frozo; 30th Nov 2007 at 14:40.
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAF.....
Still upset after last weekends election result?
It looks like you're yesterdays man just like your hero Johnny Howard.....
AWA's are history as Rudd went into the election with a platform to remove AWA's.
Winning one of the most decisive victories in Australian history he therefore has a mandate to remove them.
PAF ,if you want to live in the past that's fine with us but the rest of the country is moving forward.....
You could become part of history and have a drink with another group that is as relevant as Johnny Howard and the Liberal party..........I'm sure you will remember the Democrats.....
Still upset after last weekends election result?
It looks like you're yesterdays man just like your hero Johnny Howard.....
AWA's are history as Rudd went into the election with a platform to remove AWA's.
Winning one of the most decisive victories in Australian history he therefore has a mandate to remove them.
PAF ,if you want to live in the past that's fine with us but the rest of the country is moving forward.....
You could become part of history and have a drink with another group that is as relevant as Johnny Howard and the Liberal party..........I'm sure you will remember the Democrats.....
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow at least 50% of this thread is actual discussion on a topic and only 50% is childish and petty name calling.
Grow up people. Do you ever wonder why you lot have been banned from so many forums???
Grow up people. Do you ever wonder why you lot have been banned from so many forums???
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be fair Bazza....
This last post was in response to a pilot mentioning the issue and relevance of AWA's in a thread about EBA's.
I don't think I have to show you the number of threads involving pilots that end up in heated arguments with PAF and others.....
Back onto this matter though....Pegasus,Guardian etc...
Given what Pegasus said about transferring to the A380 and the conditions attached do you think that many or sufficient existing crew will want to transfer?
This last post was in response to a pilot mentioning the issue and relevance of AWA's in a thread about EBA's.
I don't think I have to show you the number of threads involving pilots that end up in heated arguments with PAF and others.....
Back onto this matter though....Pegasus,Guardian etc...
Given what Pegasus said about transferring to the A380 and the conditions attached do you think that many or sufficient existing crew will want to transfer?
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mount Olympus
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Future Option
If I can still access the States without flying on the blimp,I wont go near it.This EBA will see me out.I love flying on the 744 and that is where I will probably stay.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
just to allay any concerns or confusion... for the current CSM vacancies being advertised only CSS's are eligible. no BFA or FA will be able to access CSM applications unless the EBA is voted up.
then it would apply to future vacancies. I think that a competent CSS would always get it ahead of a flight attendant without experience. however with the projected recruitment and promotions into the future i think that there are some CSS's that are not up to the CSM position and some that dont even want it so i would rather have it opened up to our flight attendants rather than overseas bases or SHort Haul CSM
then it would apply to future vacancies. I think that a competent CSS would always get it ahead of a flight attendant without experience. however with the projected recruitment and promotions into the future i think that there are some CSS's that are not up to the CSM position and some that dont even want it so i would rather have it opened up to our flight attendants rather than overseas bases or SHort Haul CSM
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mount Olympus
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chosen Not Promoted
While it is fantastic that promotional opportunities are available to Australian based crew,its unfortunate that the promotional process is not transparent.
The last intake of onboard managers was a farce.Many of those chosen and not promoted are both inept and incapable of performing their duties and responsibilities satisfactorily.Hiding and crying in a toilet when an IFE malfunctions is not the sign of an individual equipped to be an onboard manager.
The position of Onboard Manager has been demeaned.Unless you are "Known" your chances of promotion are zero.Performance reviews and KPIs are much better indicators of potential than the BOS desk and coffee with Sam and Ali.
The last intake of onboard managers was a farce.Many of those chosen and not promoted are both inept and incapable of performing their duties and responsibilities satisfactorily.Hiding and crying in a toilet when an IFE malfunctions is not the sign of an individual equipped to be an onboard manager.
The position of Onboard Manager has been demeaned.Unless you are "Known" your chances of promotion are zero.Performance reviews and KPIs are much better indicators of potential than the BOS desk and coffee with Sam and Ali.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Promotions
The thing that i find totally galling about promotions is the lack of transparency too. To be honest managerial preragative underpins all promotions in nearly all companys.
if they want you...you will get it
if they dont want you ..you wont get it
some of the best candidates for CSM in my view have missed out. And in my view those that generally miss out (other than those that are incompetent) are ones that cant be "controlled". Independent thinkers or those that crew will listen to rather than management have got little chance unless they become expert in "playing the game".
Sadly past and present management select who they want rather than who does the best in the "fair" process.
Its the way of the world
if they want you...you will get it
if they dont want you ..you wont get it
some of the best candidates for CSM in my view have missed out. And in my view those that generally miss out (other than those that are incompetent) are ones that cant be "controlled". Independent thinkers or those that crew will listen to rather than management have got little chance unless they become expert in "playing the game".
Sadly past and present management select who they want rather than who does the best in the "fair" process.
Its the way of the world
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: REAL WORLD
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree
with your assessment peg47. I dont agree with the future process of promoting from the bfa ranks. most bfa have no idea how to fix things (from seats to ife) and the time spend in y/c is part of that learning curve. 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mrpaxing
I dont agree with the future process of promoting from the bfa ranks. most bfa have no idea how to fix things (from seats to ife) and the time spend in y/c is part of that learning curve.
Most BFA have spent plenty of time in economy just as most FA have spent plenty of time up the front, but if I use your logic, I would prefer to have a BFA with greater experience with P/J managing the aircraft. The CSS can handle the problems with economy seats if your ridiculous view of BFA skills in Y were true.
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pegasus is certainly right in that the promotional process with the company is as transparent as mud.The company has it's chosen candidates picked before they've even applied.
It's not just Cabin Crew either as I have heard some good stories about promotions in Engineering as well.
I think mrpaxing is also right in that a BFA has no real idea of what a CSM does anymore than a FA.The CSM's job is not only about the pax and the IFE but is also a conduit between the company,the pax,the tech and cabin crew not to mention ground staff.....in fact everyone.
Until you have done the job you really don't know how much there is to it.
The only difference in including BFA crew for the job is that the company have already picked who they want for BFirst.This way they already have a pool of their own candidates ready for the appointee ...sorry I meant selection process.
How about a new selection process in which a real world test is involved and is part of the promotional process.Something which is fair and shows talent and aptitude.....then again since when is that something that the company looks for.
How about when a crew member wants to apply for CSM they have to spend so many sectors as a Claytons CSS working with the actual CSS in Y/C for say a period of 6 months.
During this time they are evaluated not only by the CSS but the CSM as well.They would be given tasks such as fixing seats in all areas and dealing with pax complaints and other issues that are normally done by on board managers.
This would include BFA as well as FA...Let's see how they do in the real world and not just because they have lunch with Fat Boy Slim or someone else in the office.
Any other ideas .....
It's not just Cabin Crew either as I have heard some good stories about promotions in Engineering as well.
I think mrpaxing is also right in that a BFA has no real idea of what a CSM does anymore than a FA.The CSM's job is not only about the pax and the IFE but is also a conduit between the company,the pax,the tech and cabin crew not to mention ground staff.....in fact everyone.
Until you have done the job you really don't know how much there is to it.
The only difference in including BFA crew for the job is that the company have already picked who they want for BFirst.This way they already have a pool of their own candidates ready for the appointee ...sorry I meant selection process.
How about a new selection process in which a real world test is involved and is part of the promotional process.Something which is fair and shows talent and aptitude.....then again since when is that something that the company looks for.
How about when a crew member wants to apply for CSM they have to spend so many sectors as a Claytons CSS working with the actual CSS in Y/C for say a period of 6 months.
During this time they are evaluated not only by the CSS but the CSM as well.They would be given tasks such as fixing seats in all areas and dealing with pax complaints and other issues that are normally done by on board managers.
This would include BFA as well as FA...Let's see how they do in the real world and not just because they have lunch with Fat Boy Slim or someone else in the office.
Any other ideas .....