Jetstar Engine Failure?!?!?!
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Talking about how Jetstar handle pax, lets talk about Qantas.
4 or 5 weeks ago I was off to NZ when the 767 is pulled awat trom T1 and flight is delayed 4 hours. No word of what is happening or meal or drink ticket. Later on the crew tell me VB had a Melbourne flight cancelled due flight crew problems and Qantas used the 767 to go to Melbourne.
It cost me a fair bit of money that delay, but Qantas made money.
5 hours late to NZ, so some of you Qantas guys should look in your own backyard first.
4 or 5 weeks ago I was off to NZ when the 767 is pulled awat trom T1 and flight is delayed 4 hours. No word of what is happening or meal or drink ticket. Later on the crew tell me VB had a Melbourne flight cancelled due flight crew problems and Qantas used the 767 to go to Melbourne.
It cost me a fair bit of money that delay, but Qantas made money.
5 hours late to NZ, so some of you Qantas guys should look in your own backyard first.
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From golow
4 or 5 weeks ago I was off to NZ when the 767 is pulled awat trom T1 and flight is delayed 4 hours. No word of what is happening or meal or drink ticket.
Let me get this straight,you waited at the gate for 4 hours and there was not one PA or any information given for the delay?
Yep I believe that allright.....
4 or 5 weeks ago I was off to NZ when the 767 is pulled awat trom T1 and flight is delayed 4 hours. No word of what is happening or meal or drink ticket.
Let me get this straight,you waited at the gate for 4 hours and there was not one PA or any information given for the delay?
Yep I believe that allright.....
If it was Brisbane to Auckland then it wasn't a Qantas 767. 
Read on the other forum that Alan Joyces thinks that it is safe to operate a jet for up to 12 hours on one engine!! One then has to question why they would enforce ETOPs rules then.
The trusty old "Qantas Group" term seems to be popping up again too!!
http://www.theage.com.au/news/Nation...042985303.html
Read on the other forum that Alan Joyces thinks that it is safe to operate a jet for up to 12 hours on one engine!! One then has to question why they would enforce ETOPs rules then.
The trusty old "Qantas Group" term seems to be popping up again too!!
http://www.theage.com.au/news/Nation...042985303.html
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I love "Watchdog's" Hyundai of the Sky comment re the Airbus. Love it!!!!!!
Which prompts my Airbus ditty:-
What 2 comments do you Never want to hear on the flight deck of an Airbus???
1. The Captain saying "I wonder what will happen when I do this" !!!
2. The F/O saying " I've been thinking" !!!!
(Minimum Requirements for international flying- "3 Man & 3 Fans" !!!!!!!)
Which prompts my Airbus ditty:-
What 2 comments do you Never want to hear on the flight deck of an Airbus???
1. The Captain saying "I wonder what will happen when I do this" !!!
2. The F/O saying " I've been thinking" !!!!
(Minimum Requirements for international flying- "3 Man & 3 Fans" !!!!!!!)
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What was that comment from one of the passengers about a Bang heard after take off, yet the flight continued?
Sounds like the whole Airline game in Australia is becoming General Aviation in Jets.
Sounds like the whole Airline game in Australia is becoming General Aviation in Jets.
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What was that comment from one of the passengers about a Bang heard after take off, yet the flight continued?
No doubt the pilots thought they were safe 'cause there's lots and lots of islands through Indo which they could put down on if the other one quit.
Crossing the sea towards Darwin, they got scared and thought they'd better go back to Bali, just in case.
Yep, that's what happened, I read it in the Tele!
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ABC TV news in Adelaide had a very short interview with a couple of disgruntled pax saying that they were'nt told what was happening etc etc and to top it off, one person said that there were bits falling off the aircraft and so on. I did'nt hear all of what he said but I suspect it was the usual gripes and grizzles that now sadly seem common after such events.
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A332 Emerg Gen
It appears that OVERTALK and CHEMICAL ALLI don't know anything about the back up power generation systems in large jet aircraft.
On the A332 there are 2 three phase AC generators driven by each engine. and a third generator powered by the APU which can replace either or both engine driven generators. As correctly stated the APU in this case was inop but this is not an ETOPS issue on the A332. With an engine out, the remaining engine driven generator can supply the entire electrical network.
(115 KVA of three phase 115/200 volt 400 hertz power). In the unlikely event of a subsequent generator failure the EMERG GEN starts which is normally supplied by the green hydraulic circuit. This supplies 8.6 KVA of three phase 115/200 volt 400hertz power. If the green hydraulic circuit was out then a RAM AIR TURBINE would drop out of the port wing flap canoe and supply 3.5 KVA 115/200 volt 400 hertz power.
I hope that armed with the facts you can now engage in sensible debate.
On the A332 there are 2 three phase AC generators driven by each engine. and a third generator powered by the APU which can replace either or both engine driven generators. As correctly stated the APU in this case was inop but this is not an ETOPS issue on the A332. With an engine out, the remaining engine driven generator can supply the entire electrical network.
(115 KVA of three phase 115/200 volt 400 hertz power). In the unlikely event of a subsequent generator failure the EMERG GEN starts which is normally supplied by the green hydraulic circuit. This supplies 8.6 KVA of three phase 115/200 volt 400hertz power. If the green hydraulic circuit was out then a RAM AIR TURBINE would drop out of the port wing flap canoe and supply 3.5 KVA 115/200 volt 400 hertz power.
I hope that armed with the facts you can now engage in sensible debate.
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Hey Fred ( croc redund. ) and Barney ( D McD ) , hopefully one day you guys will fly a modern jet.
Then you can sell the stone tablet and chisel you use when the captain says " give me direct to XXX "
Still, if you have no F/E, who are you going to cuddle on an overnight.
Then you can sell the stone tablet and chisel you use when the captain says " give me direct to XXX "
Still, if you have no F/E, who are you going to cuddle on an overnight.
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allow me to retort wilbur
so wilbur did you cut and paste your knowledge straight from your 330 course notes,i mearly stated were both engines running in the previous post ?
if you would like to put your life down to green system hydraulic values,go rite ahead.perspnally i hope i am never sitting on a twin when a rat is deployed
if you would like to put your life down to green system hydraulic values,go rite ahead.perspnally i hope i am never sitting on a twin when a rat is deployed
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From a non pilots point of view all this talk about redundant systems is academic.
Let's look at it from this angle.
We have a brand new aircraft flying from Thailand to Australia at night.
The APU is already unserviceable
The PIC is forced to shut down the number one engine.
Some here have said that there is nothing wrong with flying around on one engine but that is only part of the story.
Not only have we lost half of the available thrust but we also have a great big lump on one wing creating drag.
The PIC is faced with some decisions,he has shut down not one of 4 or even 3 engines but one of two.
Does he know what is the cause of the problem?
Does he know with 100 % certainty that the other engine does not have a problem.
He does know that the APU is stuffed and the aircraft is so new he can still smell the croissants the workers had for lunch before delivering the aircraft.Two out of three engines are of no use and any normal person without ego problems would be wondering about the REMAINING engine.
It does not matter if the drop down turbine could give limited power and hydraulics.
IF the ONLY other engine also goes awry then he is sitting in a very new and expensive French glider..at night.
Personally,I think the crew did a great job and erred on the side of safety because don't forget that on the other side of the flight deck door are nearly 200 people not to mention an expensive aircraft not a raft
Let's look at it from this angle.
We have a brand new aircraft flying from Thailand to Australia at night.
The APU is already unserviceable
The PIC is forced to shut down the number one engine.
Some here have said that there is nothing wrong with flying around on one engine but that is only part of the story.
Not only have we lost half of the available thrust but we also have a great big lump on one wing creating drag.
The PIC is faced with some decisions,he has shut down not one of 4 or even 3 engines but one of two.
Does he know what is the cause of the problem?
Does he know with 100 % certainty that the other engine does not have a problem.
He does know that the APU is stuffed and the aircraft is so new he can still smell the croissants the workers had for lunch before delivering the aircraft.Two out of three engines are of no use and any normal person without ego problems would be wondering about the REMAINING engine.
It does not matter if the drop down turbine could give limited power and hydraulics.
IF the ONLY other engine also goes awry then he is sitting in a very new and expensive French glider..at night.
Personally,I think the crew did a great job and erred on the side of safety because don't forget that on the other side of the flight deck door are nearly 200 people not to mention an expensive aircraft not a raft
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" IF the ONLY other engine also goes awry then he is sitting in a very new and expensive French glider..at night. "
and they make bluddy good gliders too! already tested and proven, who needs ETOPS when you can just glide her in
( i knew the 'bus was the bean counters darling, but thats just ridiculous )
and they make bluddy good gliders too! already tested and proven, who needs ETOPS when you can just glide her in
( i knew the 'bus was the bean counters darling, but thats just ridiculous )
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I don't think anyone is criticising the crew here.
As I said before, Jetstar is facing a major PR problem, the likes of which all airlines face at times when they have a run of incidents. QF have had them, Ansett had them. VB seemed to have escaped unscathed so far.
Jetstar Intl problem is that with 5 airframes it has not achieved critical mass and the press will leap on any incident in the near future. If you think Jetstar gets a hard time here, wait for another incident and see the press bandwagon!
As I said before, Jetstar is facing a major PR problem, the likes of which all airlines face at times when they have a run of incidents. QF have had them, Ansett had them. VB seemed to have escaped unscathed so far.
Jetstar Intl problem is that with 5 airframes it has not achieved critical mass and the press will leap on any incident in the near future. If you think Jetstar gets a hard time here, wait for another incident and see the press bandwagon!
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RedTBar - perhaps we should look at this from a pilot's point of view.
Do you know anything about ETOPS?
If not allow me to add my 2c worth.
For all A330 aircraft throughout the world a U/S APU is not a critical failure and therefore will not prevent an ETOPS dispatch.
This means that after a critical failure in flight (such as an engine failure) the aircraft can legally and safely fly for a further 180mins to land at an adequate airfield (in this case DPS).
Please by all means go to the Airbus website and have a look at the number of IFSD (inflight shutdowns) that the aircraft/engine type is required to have been proven on.
Straight from the Airbus website on ETOPS:
Hope this allays your fears.
Do you know anything about ETOPS?
If not allow me to add my 2c worth.
For all A330 aircraft throughout the world a U/S APU is not a critical failure and therefore will not prevent an ETOPS dispatch.
This means that after a critical failure in flight (such as an engine failure) the aircraft can legally and safely fly for a further 180mins to land at an adequate airfield (in this case DPS).
Please by all means go to the Airbus website and have a look at the number of IFSD (inflight shutdowns) that the aircraft/engine type is required to have been proven on.
Straight from the Airbus website on ETOPS:
"Propulsion system reliability is the most vital aspect of ETOPS and must
be sufficient to ensure that the probability of a double engine failure from
independent causes is lower than defined limits (this requirement
establishes a maximum In-Flight Shutdown (IFSD) rate of 0.02/1000
engine hours for 180-minute ETOPS)."be sufficient to ensure that the probability of a double engine failure from
independent causes is lower than defined limits (this requirement
establishes a maximum In-Flight Shutdown (IFSD) rate of 0.02/1000
Hope this allays your fears.
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Hey Wilburrrrrr!! You can have all the electricity in the universe buddy- but once that second donk ceases to suck/bang/blow the mighty 'BUS will still only glide for approx 120 miles till it hits the deck!!!!! I suppose the crew would be able to see the demise of themselves at night & sip some freshly brewed coffee with all that wonderful electricity at their disposal!!!!!!!!!!! The ONLY power worth having in an emergency is HORSEPOWER!!!!!!!!