MIT Engineering 8Hr Roster
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Please explain? Lets compare
------------------------------------------Per----------- MIT------
Rejected company proposed roster?------- yes----------- yes------
Forced to 8 hour roster?-------------------yes-----------yes------
Working overtime?-------------------------no------------no-------
Sc@bs from Syd saving M's @rse----------yes-----------yes-------
Locals on higher duties---------------------no------------no-------
Support from Mel Domestic?-------------- none---------- none-----
Support from any other section?----------none-----------none-----
Can union put official ban on?------------illegal-----------illegal----
Do they follow real footy?-----------------yes------------yes------
DMMs kept on extended roster?-----------yes------------yes------
Mmmm... I think we may be able to put the issues on an equal level there are some similarities. Every time one person comes down they save M's bacon from another hiding. Now Ali you can keep crawling up his hole but remember when you are up there and he gets the @ss you will fall out and the smell that comes with it doesn't wash off.
Now how is it you say that these travellers rang the Asn and got told there was no problem? In the same line you say that the Asn have put out a notice (which deters people from heading to Mel). So why would they send out a different msg on the phine than their notice? Nobody rang the asn office before the notice come out but just in case the msg isn't clear enough. Don't come down.
------------------------------------------Per----------- MIT------
Rejected company proposed roster?------- yes----------- yes------
Forced to 8 hour roster?-------------------yes-----------yes------
Working overtime?-------------------------no------------no-------
Sc@bs from Syd saving M's @rse----------yes-----------yes-------
Locals on higher duties---------------------no------------no-------
Support from Mel Domestic?-------------- none---------- none-----
Support from any other section?----------none-----------none-----
Can union put official ban on?------------illegal-----------illegal----
Do they follow real footy?-----------------yes------------yes------
DMMs kept on extended roster?-----------yes------------yes------
Mmmm... I think we may be able to put the issues on an equal level there are some similarities. Every time one person comes down they save M's bacon from another hiding. Now Ali you can keep crawling up his hole but remember when you are up there and he gets the @ss you will fall out and the smell that comes with it doesn't wash off.
Now how is it you say that these travellers rang the Asn and got told there was no problem? In the same line you say that the Asn have put out a notice (which deters people from heading to Mel). So why would they send out a different msg on the phine than their notice? Nobody rang the asn office before the notice come out but just in case the msg isn't clear enough. Don't come down.
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Chemical
You are of course right.
However, look on the left side of your payslip and you will see overtime, shift penalties, license payments, leave premiums and etc etc. All negotiated on your behalf by YOUR Ass'n. Take a breather, a liitle more time to ponder what is really happening in our workplace.
The term 'legacy' has been negatively exploited by management. Surely it is this legacy that allows you to comfortably go about your work, one that has developed a high standard of maintenance in our people - that sets us apart from our regional neighbours.
so far i dont see the alaea printed on my pay slip,only in the deduction column
However, look on the left side of your payslip and you will see overtime, shift penalties, license payments, leave premiums and etc etc. All negotiated on your behalf by YOUR Ass'n. Take a breather, a liitle more time to ponder what is really happening in our workplace.
The term 'legacy' has been negatively exploited by management. Surely it is this legacy that allows you to comfortably go about your work, one that has developed a high standard of maintenance in our people - that sets us apart from our regional neighbours.
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Forget so easily !
Mamhatmarhandbag
Just a little reminder, the one choice that MIT had that PER didn't was to stay on the 9.5 hr shift and be aligned with a domestic crew forming a base and tarmac work force.
Why did they vote it down ?
Scared of working at the hangar !
Scared of the losing the flexiblity of the individual line roster if you know what i mean !
OR Because MDT weren't suffering enough pain !
Present all the facts
Just a little reminder, the one choice that MIT had that PER didn't was to stay on the 9.5 hr shift and be aligned with a domestic crew forming a base and tarmac work force.
Why did they vote it down ?
Scared of working at the hangar !
Scared of the losing the flexiblity of the individual line roster if you know what i mean !
OR Because MDT weren't suffering enough pain !
Present all the facts
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You haven't presented facts, they are just some distorted opinions as why the MIT lames may have voted a particular way. There are plenty of reasons but the one fact you did raise may not even be relevant.
The MIT vote was to stay on their existing shift lenghth (9.5) but on a different pattern.
The Perth vote was to stay on the same pattern (4 on 4 off) but on a different length shift (10.9).
I may not have mentioned that the toilets in Perth don't cater for the existing staff but how far do I need to take it? End of the day both depts forced to a roster they don't want to work so the airline can say look at them. If you don't accept the plate of sh!t we serve you then you'll go to an 8 hour shift also. Help them to throw the plate back in M's face, don't stand behind him because he doesn't give a damn about you.
The MIT vote was to stay on their existing shift lenghth (9.5) but on a different pattern.
The Perth vote was to stay on the same pattern (4 on 4 off) but on a different length shift (10.9).
I may not have mentioned that the toilets in Perth don't cater for the existing staff but how far do I need to take it? End of the day both depts forced to a roster they don't want to work so the airline can say look at them. If you don't accept the plate of sh!t we serve you then you'll go to an 8 hour shift also. Help them to throw the plate back in M's face, don't stand behind him because he doesn't give a damn about you.
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YEP !
Yes your correct different pattern but MIT would have kept their shift and Mel would have been one united force (larger in numbers ) instead of the situation you have have now where MDT don't feel the least bit sorry for MIT . MDT want all the work and training they can get from MIT ! 
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so mahtma you must be a union official to be able to post that no one from syd rang the assoc .i think you will find that all the so called scabs have rung and were looking for some direction and recieved very little until the notice arrived.you will find that your northern cousins support you even if your domestic brothers dont.i support the effort but if you want to start naming and shaming do it with some factual information.or just put another wedge in the great divide
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Not an official or a goose but we got SP come from our section so we know what has been going on in the union. Some sc@bs have come down from Syd but overall the support has been good. Have heard that 70 lames said no to come down the other night which is a sign that the lames knwo that we need to stick together. The problem is that 3 of our own have done the dirty on us. Two of them are Tasmanians not that that is relevant but what goes around comes around.
I am looking forward to next Friday's sick out.
I am looking forward to next Friday's sick out.
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Looks like the ALAEA has pulled its original letter and that now "Travelling Engineers" are able to visit your fine station.
I hope now the ALAEA will support their members unlike the last threat.
I am not sure how I felt, being a fully paid member, being told that I would not receive support under certain situations.
N
I hope now the ALAEA will support their members unlike the last threat.
I am not sure how I felt, being a fully paid member, being told that I would not receive support under certain situations.
N
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Guys, I understand your concern but this is the best Association we have had in years. I would happily pay them a bonus for all there great work to keep the momentum!! The amount of notices and revving up would not have happened years ago. SP is the man and has it all under control.Let the company bring the travelers. The expense may come out of the secret budget but that budget is not endless. BELIEVE ME!!! It may take some time but beancounters do watch and add it up.We all must stick together.Its the only way. There will always be S*&BS but fortunately a few percent and they appear very quickly.
Hang in there, its not forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hang in there, its not forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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FCMC
Spot on ... there is a limit on the expense account and questions will be asked down the track. Solidarity, although a cliche, is the best tactic IMHO. The Ass'n has led cautiously, considering the constraints, this caring gov't has placed on union activity.
Wear them down, do your job correctly ... they have enough policies and procedures in place to stifle any operation.
Remain united ... cannot be over emphasised.
Fleet reliability is already suffering, and mgmt's policies have no long term solutions for this, less LAMEs - well go figure .... Operations will ask questions about their planes and someone in QE will need to come up with answers.
Spot on ... there is a limit on the expense account and questions will be asked down the track. Solidarity, although a cliche, is the best tactic IMHO. The Ass'n has led cautiously, considering the constraints, this caring gov't has placed on union activity.
Wear them down, do your job correctly ... they have enough policies and procedures in place to stifle any operation.
Remain united ... cannot be over emphasised.
Fleet reliability is already suffering, and mgmt's policies have no long term solutions for this, less LAMEs - well go figure .... Operations will ask questions about their planes and someone in QE will need to come up with answers.
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50 syd lames were asked to go to MIT and they all
declined!!!!
Its just a shame that a MIT DMM couldn't give the same
level of support as shown by the syd brothers
Keep it up fellas
Remember
the only thing these people understand is delays.
Don't worry about the few who sc*b it.
They can't be there all the time.
The delays will come and M will have to explain to
his keepers
To the people who are thinking of going to tulla to "help"
Think carefully about it . Your names will become mud and
you will go down with the likes of mini me, borat, and the
fly in DMM's who went to perth .People have long memories
and this is a small industry.
The best form of support you can give is to stay at home and
do your jobs per the PPM
The most important thing now is to support each other
Remember QF management are liars!!!
And no matter where you work one day they will
come gunning for you
And to SP thanks for all you did for us in per.
declined!!!!
Its just a shame that a MIT DMM couldn't give the same
level of support as shown by the syd brothers
Keep it up fellas
Remember
the only thing these people understand is delays.
Don't worry about the few who sc*b it.
They can't be there all the time.
The delays will come and M will have to explain to
his keepers
To the people who are thinking of going to tulla to "help"
Think carefully about it . Your names will become mud and
you will go down with the likes of mini me, borat, and the
fly in DMM's who went to perth .People have long memories
and this is a small industry.
The best form of support you can give is to stay at home and
do your jobs per the PPM
The most important thing now is to support each other
Remember QF management are liars!!!
And no matter where you work one day they will
come gunning for you
And to SP thanks for all you did for us in per.
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mahatmacoat
Seeing as you seem to be the only one from MEL posting on the MIT subject.
Care to fill us in with some details because from an interested observer of this roster issue I would have to side with Chemical and Pitpin.
The whole MEL issue seems to revolve around the winging whining and bitching the MIT and MDT have been doing for over a dozen years, the old red team blue team BS. I personally have done postings at both terminals, enjoyed working with all the guys very much. The constant bitch about what’s going on over the other side of the tarmac and the conspiracy theories running rife was a constant source of amusement.
I have read the ALAEA notices regarding the ballots but I am non the wiser on the issue.
I was well aware of what was going on in PER and I fail to see the similarities!
So what is the beef this time?
Were MIT offered a 9.5 hour roster that ruled out their free issue over time? Did MIT not wish to cross the tarmac for fear of working a 12 hour night shift?
I just hope SP is working the benefit of all of us. Not just picking a fight in the name of self interest.. (Pick your battles)
But a union official would never do that would they ?
Dons flack jacket....
Seeing as you seem to be the only one from MEL posting on the MIT subject.
Care to fill us in with some details because from an interested observer of this roster issue I would have to side with Chemical and Pitpin.
The whole MEL issue seems to revolve around the winging whining and bitching the MIT and MDT have been doing for over a dozen years, the old red team blue team BS. I personally have done postings at both terminals, enjoyed working with all the guys very much. The constant bitch about what’s going on over the other side of the tarmac and the conspiracy theories running rife was a constant source of amusement.
I have read the ALAEA notices regarding the ballots but I am non the wiser on the issue.
I was well aware of what was going on in PER and I fail to see the similarities!
So what is the beef this time?
Were MIT offered a 9.5 hour roster that ruled out their free issue over time? Did MIT not wish to cross the tarmac for fear of working a 12 hour night shift?
I just hope SP is working the benefit of all of us. Not just picking a fight in the name of self interest.. (Pick your battles)
But a union official would never do that would they ?
Dons flack jacket....
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Looks like the ALAEA has pulled its original letter and that now "Travelling Engineers" are able to visit your fine station.
I hope now the ALAEA will support their members unlike the last threat.
I am not sure how I felt, being a fully paid member, being told that I would not receive support under certain situations.
Original letter has been pulled and travellers ok to go but read it closely. The traveller needs someone to escort them all of the time. This defeats the purpose of sending someone down when they are short staffed.
So the ALAEA has told you that support will not be there if you don't follow their notices gee what a revelation. What happens if you don't follow the rules at Qantas? your local club? the roads? your sport?
Go read some ALAEA notices from the prior crowd. They openly threatened members with disciplinary action under the rules if they didn't follow directives or spoke out against the leaders. Did they do it? Yes they used your dollars to sue a member for $750,000 for defamation.
Now they say don't go to Melbourne unless you have been trained because it would be unsafe to do so. If you do you won't be covered. Get real N we all no the reason why the ALAEA don't want members there. They can't place an official ban on travellers who are undermining the bargaining position after an unfair roster was put in place. The travellers are covering times that the roster does not whilst the LAMEs are trying to prove that the new roster doesn't work. The travellers are saving management embarrasment via delays.
The ALAEA has done everything it can to support the LAMEs in Melbourne without breaking the law. Whilst members in Melbourne are losing $200 per week and can't feed their god damn families you are having a sook about the union saying don't go to Melbourne and help Qantas screw other LAMEs. Please union don't threaten me, I don't care if they are losing money I just want Kevin to know that I love Qantas I need to be supported by the union to help get myself a promotion. Get with the program N the rat will be coming for you next and you will appreciate it when the union backs you.
I hope now the ALAEA will support their members unlike the last threat.
I am not sure how I felt, being a fully paid member, being told that I would not receive support under certain situations.
Original letter has been pulled and travellers ok to go but read it closely. The traveller needs someone to escort them all of the time. This defeats the purpose of sending someone down when they are short staffed.
So the ALAEA has told you that support will not be there if you don't follow their notices gee what a revelation. What happens if you don't follow the rules at Qantas? your local club? the roads? your sport?
Go read some ALAEA notices from the prior crowd. They openly threatened members with disciplinary action under the rules if they didn't follow directives or spoke out against the leaders. Did they do it? Yes they used your dollars to sue a member for $750,000 for defamation.
Now they say don't go to Melbourne unless you have been trained because it would be unsafe to do so. If you do you won't be covered. Get real N we all no the reason why the ALAEA don't want members there. They can't place an official ban on travellers who are undermining the bargaining position after an unfair roster was put in place. The travellers are covering times that the roster does not whilst the LAMEs are trying to prove that the new roster doesn't work. The travellers are saving management embarrasment via delays.
The ALAEA has done everything it can to support the LAMEs in Melbourne without breaking the law. Whilst members in Melbourne are losing $200 per week and can't feed their god damn families you are having a sook about the union saying don't go to Melbourne and help Qantas screw other LAMEs. Please union don't threaten me, I don't care if they are losing money I just want Kevin to know that I love Qantas I need to be supported by the union to help get myself a promotion. Get with the program N the rat will be coming for you next and you will appreciate it when the union backs you.
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BM - just a couple of answers that I know of.
The biggest reason the MIT LAMEs voted no was the move from a single line roster back to crews. They haven't worked crews since the eighties and love it because it breaks down the hierarchy system that exists in most other depts.
SP isn't picking battles and he actually encouraged all to vote yes for the roster. It is the LAMEs themselves that wanted this battle and most of them couldn't give a rats about being on an 8 hour roster unlike Perth.
The biggest reason the MIT LAMEs voted no was the move from a single line roster back to crews. They haven't worked crews since the eighties and love it because it breaks down the hierarchy system that exists in most other depts.
SP isn't picking battles and he actually encouraged all to vote yes for the roster. It is the LAMEs themselves that wanted this battle and most of them couldn't give a rats about being on an 8 hour roster unlike Perth.
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The biggest reason the MIT LAMEs voted no was the move from a single line roster back to crews. They haven't worked crews since the eighties and love it because it breaks down the hierarchy system that exists in most other depts.
So as many of us suspected the issue has nothing to do with rosters, therefore no comparison to PER. The association/members have an agreement on extended hour shifts but not on how we manage our day.
Its Ms train set and can run it as inefficiently as he likes. You can go to print say you disagree with new system in place and wait till it crashes and get to say "I told you so" ! M is not using the greatest resource he has and that’s his experienced staff on the floor whom know how make rosters work and maintain aircraft.
M is only listening to the idiots in the Lighthouse team who have no experience. This is something everyone else within the QF engineering group are going thru and we are all looking forward to the day when we all say "I told you so!"
This brings us back to MIT whom are using the only significant bargaining tool we have to fight a cause which is something the MIT don't like.
Lets throw the baby out with bath water.
I know MIT is a bunch very experience codgers whom are credited for doing much work on the ageing 744 fleet outside a checks etc and can work unsupervised but unfortunately its not for us to decide our working structure or hierarchy.
If this is the only reason MIT is spoiling for a fight I suspect support will wane as the majority work in crews not single line.
Are there any better arguements out there???
Dons flack jacket climbs into fox hole
Last edited by Bolty McBolt; 8th Jul 2007 at 04:36.
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The single line roster/crew roster argument is all about rosters what else is it. Our single line roster allows us to manage our lifestyle in a way that you cant when working on a crew. It allows us to shift change and overcomes the "suck up to the boss" mentality that you see elsewhere. It is our roster that we are fighting for and M is punishing us because we don't want his roster. Same as Perth. Some like their roster because it gives you z days, some because you get 4 off, some cause you dont work nights, some because you do. These are all reasons some people like their rosters. We like ours because we got no crews. This crap about it being M's train set so he can do what he wants is wrong. Can he pay you less because its his train set? Can he ignore CASA regs because it is his train set? Can he tell you that you can't take lunch because it is his train set? Can he force you on to an unfair extended roster because it is his train set? Can he send untrained staff on to a tarmac against all local and previous practices because it is his train set? If you don't speak up I can tell you now that something will go wrong and it won't be M's fault the blame will get laid on one of us. If we stand up now and let people know that the train is about to crash because some fat headed uni educated Moron is ignoring warnings about safety, rosters that don't work and lack of training then he goes before we do.
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Hat & coat man
Granted your point around single line rosters and making it work for you, however I disagree with you view on perceived matey's club in a crew situation versus the previous MIT arrangement.
The leading hands (SL 2's) at MIT have an enormous amount of pull over the guys on the floor and most of them will do anything possible to protect their own little "protected world" of training, postings and the like.
Also where is the equity in people abusing shift swapping to the point if you analysed the figures certain individuals were being overpaid averaging penalties because they NEVER did their rostered 0400 starts and created licence coverage gaps by continually shift swapping and undoing all the planning that had been put into place by the planners.
Big deal you say but how about the guys who do the right thing and stick to their roster as much as posible and miss out on taking leave because of the actions of the greedy, noisy minority.
I'm not so sure the MDT brothers have not supported you, witness the aforementioned 29 delayed departure. Numerous appropriately licensed individuals were approacched and all declined. The acting DMM who did the s#@b job should not be used as a general representation of MDT. Bear in mind the current industrial climate we work in.
I wish you all the best in your endevours to reach a palatable outcome but don't dig your own grave.
Also ducking for cover!
The leading hands (SL 2's) at MIT have an enormous amount of pull over the guys on the floor and most of them will do anything possible to protect their own little "protected world" of training, postings and the like.
Also where is the equity in people abusing shift swapping to the point if you analysed the figures certain individuals were being overpaid averaging penalties because they NEVER did their rostered 0400 starts and created licence coverage gaps by continually shift swapping and undoing all the planning that had been put into place by the planners.
Big deal you say but how about the guys who do the right thing and stick to their roster as much as posible and miss out on taking leave because of the actions of the greedy, noisy minority.
I'm not so sure the MDT brothers have not supported you, witness the aforementioned 29 delayed departure. Numerous appropriately licensed individuals were approacched and all declined. The acting DMM who did the s#@b job should not be used as a general representation of MDT. Bear in mind the current industrial climate we work in.
I wish you all the best in your endevours to reach a palatable outcome but don't dig your own grave.
Also ducking for cover!
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B - We don't even deserve the help of Domestic when a number of our guys worked ot when all of Domestic was out for 6 months. Not most of us but not one of our guys should have worked and we appreciate the support we got from you the other night
Ali - Come down mate we'd love to see you. ALAEA says it is ok so no problem with it. Remember you need an escort at all times. One scab, one escort, two scabs, two escorts. Kind of defeats the purpose I think but will make the operation more expensive. Under the new system you won't even be called a scab just helping us blow M's budget and bonus.
Ali - Come down mate we'd love to see you. ALAEA says it is ok so no problem with it. Remember you need an escort at all times. One scab, one escort, two scabs, two escorts. Kind of defeats the purpose I think but will make the operation more expensive. Under the new system you won't even be called a scab just helping us blow M's budget and bonus.