Type rating costs
In regards to paying or not paying for an endorsement, here is one other point that people always seem to overlook or turn a blind eye to, managements especially.
Regardless of whether you pay for the endorsement with a personal loan, upfront, or the" company pays for it" upfront, the simple fact is that if you are not receiving a good salary when you join the company either as an F. O. or a Captain, THEN YOU ARE STILL PAYING FOR THE ENDORSEMENT!!
For example, if the starting salary is $80,000 per year, and you pay 30,000 for the endorsement upfront, you are effectively only earning $50,000 in the first year. If the company is only paying $50,000 as a salary in the first year, but say that they are paying for the endorsement as you are not getting a personal loan to do so, you are of course, STILL PAYING FOR IT!
If this is what Virgin Blue and Jet Star are thinking of doing when they stop charging upfront for an endorsement, that is pay a lower " training wage" , then since the pilots are still paying for their endorsement, they have no right to ask for any kind of a bond period as the money is still COMING OUT OF THE PILOT'S POCKET NOT THEIRS!!!!!
Back to the example I used above, that means the first year wage stays at 80,000 per year,AND the company pays for the endorsement cost, then a one to three year bonding period is fair enough, 5 years as some have suggested IS NOT.
It will be interesting to see what the EBA or AWA 's at these companies state as far as starting salaries go once they "drop endorsement costs".
Regardless of whether you pay for the endorsement with a personal loan, upfront, or the" company pays for it" upfront, the simple fact is that if you are not receiving a good salary when you join the company either as an F. O. or a Captain, THEN YOU ARE STILL PAYING FOR THE ENDORSEMENT!!
For example, if the starting salary is $80,000 per year, and you pay 30,000 for the endorsement upfront, you are effectively only earning $50,000 in the first year. If the company is only paying $50,000 as a salary in the first year, but say that they are paying for the endorsement as you are not getting a personal loan to do so, you are of course, STILL PAYING FOR IT!
If this is what Virgin Blue and Jet Star are thinking of doing when they stop charging upfront for an endorsement, that is pay a lower " training wage" , then since the pilots are still paying for their endorsement, they have no right to ask for any kind of a bond period as the money is still COMING OUT OF THE PILOT'S POCKET NOT THEIRS!!!!!
Back to the example I used above, that means the first year wage stays at 80,000 per year,AND the company pays for the endorsement cost, then a one to three year bonding period is fair enough, 5 years as some have suggested IS NOT.
It will be interesting to see what the EBA or AWA 's at these companies state as far as starting salaries go once they "drop endorsement costs".
Last edited by aussie027; 5th Jun 2007 at 05:12. Reason: typos
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Aus 027
Agreed they still get the cash out of you, just a different way of skinning the cat !
The only pro I can see associated with the "training wage" would be a lower tax rate
Agreed they still get the cash out of you, just a different way of skinning the cat !
The only pro I can see associated with the "training wage" would be a lower tax rate
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And you dont have to front up with the cash carrying the risk the operator will fold in 6 months or you dont cut it and loose your own money. I would vote for a training salary over a 30/40k bank loan.
Training salaries have been the norm in the USA for years. Mainly major airlines with large in house training organisations. First year on type you get paid peanuts then you're on a slowly increasing upwards scale.
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Yep, low salary on the first year (to recoup the endo) then if you leave before your 5 year bond is up ( due to a more attractive T & Cs and $), you pay for the training cost pro-rata ( plus interest).
Conclusion - you still pay however you look at it, although the company paid for your training up front, you just had a loan with your airline.
Sneakkyyyyy .......
Conclusion - you still pay however you look at it, although the company paid for your training up front, you just had a loan with your airline.
Sneakkyyyyy .......
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Valid points posted in the Fragrant Forums, which I'll repost here.
Bonding or Training Contracts do one thing and one thing only.....Proclaim to the world that the airline hiring you knowingly does not provide adequate pay and lifestyle requirements and is a stepping stone. A company that adequately provides for a pilot does NOT need a bond.
Everyone should just sit on their hands and do nothing for a while. The pendulum is picking up pace.
They will have to do something soon, the turn up rate at interviews is now around only XX%, cant imagine how bonding will help them??
They will have to do something soon, the turn up rate at interviews is now around only XX%, cant imagine how bonding will help them??
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Mach 082...
a small yet increasing number of candidates are not getting through the training providers' checks or the airlines' induction checks. If that happens to you it can be devastating. Resigned from previous job, time off without pay to train, no new job to go to and potentially a $30k bill, sometimes without the crucial entry on the licence.
It still wouldn't be fun if it happens in a bond situation but at least the bill is not your problem.
a small yet increasing number of candidates are not getting through the training providers' checks or the airlines' induction checks. If that happens to you it can be devastating. Resigned from previous job, time off without pay to train, no new job to go to and potentially a $30k bill, sometimes without the crucial entry on the licence.
It still wouldn't be fun if it happens in a bond situation but at least the bill is not your problem.
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Bonding or Training Contracts do one thing and one thing only.....Proclaim to the world that the airline hiring you knowingly does not provide adequate pay and lifestyle requirements and is a stepping stone. A company that adequately provides for a pilot does NOT need a bond.
