Could Jetstar Leave JPC and join AIPA
Come on guys, read my post #14. AIPA cannot and will not break the law. Others of the Qantas group are more than welcome when it is legal.
We do not need to refight the fights of all those years ago, let us ALL move forward - one Qantas group represented by AIPA.
BTW I hate the term "Qantas group".
We do not need to refight the fights of all those years ago, let us ALL move forward - one Qantas group represented by AIPA.
BTW I hate the term "Qantas group".
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There is currently a court case underway in the AIRC. It covers this exact topic you are all talking about. AIPA wants the ability to allow anyone to join there union, and I mean all parties, J*, Vb, Eastern, Sunstate, Rex the lot.
But what is really interesting to read, and you can down load the transcripts of all court proceedings at the AIRC website, is that QF and VB has their legal teams working together, I say again, working together, to stop AIPA from being succcessful with the expansion application, at the same time, the AFAP has their legal team in their also trying to throw a spanner amoungst the works.
So its very obvious, the airlines do not want the Australian Pilot group as a whole to have a collective bargening power, and Unions don't want to loose their membership.
Now is the time if ever, to start a whole new Union, that circumnavigates all these power brokers and current Unions, and move forward in setting one separte standard for each aircraft type/operations and renewing our conditions to a standard that somewhat represents where it used to be.
The time is now.
But what is really interesting to read, and you can down load the transcripts of all court proceedings at the AIRC website, is that QF and VB has their legal teams working together, I say again, working together, to stop AIPA from being succcessful with the expansion application, at the same time, the AFAP has their legal team in their also trying to throw a spanner amoungst the works.
So its very obvious, the airlines do not want the Australian Pilot group as a whole to have a collective bargening power, and Unions don't want to loose their membership.
Now is the time if ever, to start a whole new Union, that circumnavigates all these power brokers and current Unions, and move forward in setting one separte standard for each aircraft type/operations and renewing our conditions to a standard that somewhat represents where it used to be.
The time is now.
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Maybe AIPA 'should' use pprune as a launching pad to spread the word to the various pilot bodies. A lot of pilots also don't read pprune, but word spreads relatively quick amongst our industry.
I agree with Keith somewhat. AIPA NEED to put up a good proposal to the Jetstar guys to get them onside. A lot of Jetstar guys have read the 'mainline' section of Qrewroom and are well aware of whats been said in the past, and of late by a select few. I know people tend to hold on a little to tight to things that have happened in the past, but if things go to Dixons plan, Jetstar domestic & international will be a fairly big outfit within the next 18 months. Irrespective of if you love or hate Jetstar, its here.
I too would love to see the QF/JQ management get the pineapple for once, and the pilots get their sh*t together and we bring these cronies down a notch. It irks me no end that IF the APA deal goes ahead, the 'top shelf knobs' get close to 100 million between them. The thought of sharing it with the 30 000 odd staff obviously doesn't rate a thought with them. How they sleep at night has me buggered.
I agree with Keith somewhat. AIPA NEED to put up a good proposal to the Jetstar guys to get them onside. A lot of Jetstar guys have read the 'mainline' section of Qrewroom and are well aware of whats been said in the past, and of late by a select few. I know people tend to hold on a little to tight to things that have happened in the past, but if things go to Dixons plan, Jetstar domestic & international will be a fairly big outfit within the next 18 months. Irrespective of if you love or hate Jetstar, its here.
I too would love to see the QF/JQ management get the pineapple for once, and the pilots get their sh*t together and we bring these cronies down a notch. It irks me no end that IF the APA deal goes ahead, the 'top shelf knobs' get close to 100 million between them. The thought of sharing it with the 30 000 odd staff obviously doesn't rate a thought with them. How they sleep at night has me buggered.
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Poon, the 100 mill is just what GD plans to get in the next five years. Try 500 million in total for all of them. There are 36 managers who will take 4.6 % of APA, so that is also not counting any profits they will get when they flog Jetstar off and return QF to the ASX.
Considering that they are paying 11.6 Billion now, and they are looking at a 20% profit, you can work out what that comes to, and why the stakes are so high. They will spend anything to keep pilots segregated.
Considering that they are paying 11.6 Billion now, and they are looking at a 20% profit, you can work out what that comes to, and why the stakes are so high. They will spend anything to keep pilots segregated.
Nunc est bibendum
A lot of Jetstar guys have read the 'mainline' section of Qrewroom and are well aware of whats been said in the past, and of late by a select few.
For record I disagree with the decision made by the J* crew to vote up the widebody variation to the EBA but then again I was at odds with 58% of the crew who said 'yes' to the last LH EBA as well. That doesn't make me want to do over the J* crew though.
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Sorry Guys,
But no one has really seen the importance of my post, forget the same old winge and rant. There are a group of VB pilots who are in the process of setting up a whole new Union, which they plan will encompass everyone and anyone who wants to join.
Once this is up and running, and its not too far away (almost registered), its up to the Australian Pilot body to jump on board and create one collective bargin.
There will be loss of licence, legal representation, etc, etc.
So watch this space.
But no one has really seen the importance of my post, forget the same old winge and rant. There are a group of VB pilots who are in the process of setting up a whole new Union, which they plan will encompass everyone and anyone who wants to join.
Once this is up and running, and its not too far away (almost registered), its up to the Australian Pilot body to jump on board and create one collective bargin.
There will be loss of licence, legal representation, etc, etc.
So watch this space.
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Keg, I think most of the guys in JQ don't get flustered by whats said by the minority. Aviation attracts ego's & theres plenty of 'short man syndrome' it seems. I mean, take pprune for an example. There is a lot of negative comments made on here about the company, the service, the conditions, the pilots, the eba...whatever. The thing is, you don't see too many from JQ getting on here arking up about it. Most of the guys & gals are happy to be flying, and theres no shortage of people applying still. Yep the conditions aren't like SH or Australian/Ansett days. WIth Tiger looming, I can see not much being offered next round by the scumbags. What kind of guarantee would AIPA be able to provide to bring the conditions up to a satisfactory level?
In regard to AIPA wanting all of the pilots to unite. Awesome. But the ball is in their court. A lot has to be done (not just said) to pursuade them to join up, given certain conflicts of interest as Keith mentioned earlier. People can talk the talk. Can they walk the walk though.
Good luck, I hope 2007/2008 is a change of cycle & the pilots get the upper hand again.
In regard to AIPA wanting all of the pilots to unite. Awesome. But the ball is in their court. A lot has to be done (not just said) to pursuade them to join up, given certain conflicts of interest as Keith mentioned earlier. People can talk the talk. Can they walk the walk though.
Good luck, I hope 2007/2008 is a change of cycle & the pilots get the upper hand again.
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There are a group of VB pilots who are in the process of setting up a whole new Union, which they plan will encompass everyone and anyone who wants to join.
Part of the reason AIPA will always have trouble attracting others is that it is seen as just a QF rep.
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Now everyone is starting to think.
As Dixon has stated time and time again, always back "self interest".
So why not use this self interest ,as it's a given ,and come up with a Pilot Union that incorporates the multitudes of "self interest" out there.
AUSALPA.
Separate functioning union councils looking after their day to day member issues and an overseeing peak council body.
It seems to work for BALPA and USALPA ,and Japan,etc,is it perhaps time for something similar to occur here in Australia?
As Dixon has stated time and time again, always back "self interest".
So why not use this self interest ,as it's a given ,and come up with a Pilot Union that incorporates the multitudes of "self interest" out there.
AUSALPA.
Separate functioning union councils looking after their day to day member issues and an overseeing peak council body.
It seems to work for BALPA and USALPA ,and Japan,etc,is it perhaps time for something similar to occur here in Australia?
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VB pilots to set up new union?
What a farkin joke.
If the VB pilots are not happy with their current union (AFAP) it is because VB pilots in general and in large numbers take little or no interest in the operation of that Union. What would change. NOTHING. Nobody external to VB would take any interest in such a union. The same as nobody external would wish to join a formalised J* Pilot Group union. I have said it before and will continue bleating, until ALL pilots in Australia get together under one banner, in the interest of ALL pilots in Australia, then no progress will be made. Until AIPA and AFAP can re-unite then all is lost. Setting up a new splinter group is simply a waste of time and effort. Let us all unite in one excited voice, AIPA and AFAP, get it together, no more in-fighting, all members supporting the combined outfit, and go forward for the good of all pilots in Australia. I certainly cannot support any organisation that does not seek to represent ALL Australian pilots employed in Australia. I agree, let us put the past behind us and move forward as a united group, but let us not seek to destroy what is already in place. Surely a merging of those resources will be much more effective than attempting to sideline them.
What a farkin joke.
If the VB pilots are not happy with their current union (AFAP) it is because VB pilots in general and in large numbers take little or no interest in the operation of that Union. What would change. NOTHING. Nobody external to VB would take any interest in such a union. The same as nobody external would wish to join a formalised J* Pilot Group union. I have said it before and will continue bleating, until ALL pilots in Australia get together under one banner, in the interest of ALL pilots in Australia, then no progress will be made. Until AIPA and AFAP can re-unite then all is lost. Setting up a new splinter group is simply a waste of time and effort. Let us all unite in one excited voice, AIPA and AFAP, get it together, no more in-fighting, all members supporting the combined outfit, and go forward for the good of all pilots in Australia. I certainly cannot support any organisation that does not seek to represent ALL Australian pilots employed in Australia. I agree, let us put the past behind us and move forward as a united group, but let us not seek to destroy what is already in place. Surely a merging of those resources will be much more effective than attempting to sideline them.
