Qantas must break unions: Ryanair co-founder
Metrosexual
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Enroute
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish, i am genuinely interested to see hard facts to back up your Sydney-centric theories, and how the rest of the nation is held to ransom by the 'power base' in Sydney.
PM me if you prefer to not hijack the thread 'too' much.
PM me if you prefer to not hijack the thread 'too' much.
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish,
What are you taking and what the heck is conflating in this context?
The only thing you are trying to blend together is your hatred of Qantas and jealousy of Sydney.
Who EXACTLY has proven that Qantas is costing more than 30,000 jobs?
Again you dribble on about Sydney-centric….get over it
You are still p$#@@# off about Ansett going under and blame everyone but Ansett management.
You are very simply anti Qantas because Ansett went down the gurgler
The reason for the takeover is that it is good target…..pure and simple even for you to understand
What are you taking and what the heck is conflating in this context?
The only thing you are trying to blend together is your hatred of Qantas and jealousy of Sydney.
Who EXACTLY has proven that Qantas is costing more than 30,000 jobs?
Again you dribble on about Sydney-centric….get over it
You are still p$#@@# off about Ansett going under and blame everyone but Ansett management.
You are very simply anti Qantas because Ansett went down the gurgler
The reason for the takeover is that it is good target…..pure and simple even for you to understand
Grandpa Aerotart
Interesting article in the Washington Post...these are the people, generically speaking, who will be taking over QF and this is their mentality.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121901569.html
Corporate greed is running out of control.
Another interesting quote;
People like this should not be allowed near a lemonade stand let alone major corporations
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121901569.html
Corporate greed is running out of control.
Another interesting quote;
The rain falls on the rich and the poor alike. That's symmetry. But after the rain lands, the rich receive a much larger share of the water than the poor. That's asymmetry. Indeed, some of the rich funnel as much water as possible toward their own personal reservoirs...even though they have more than enough water already. That's greed.
...And some of the rich drain the wells of their neighbors and clients to water their golf courses. That's Wall Street.
...And some of the rich drain the wells of their neighbors and clients to water their golf courses. That's Wall Street.
Consider the case of Morgan Stanley. The firm posted net income of $7.4 billion in 2006 - an impressive $3.7 billion more than 2003 earnings. But at the same time, total compensation at Morgan Stanley last year topped $14.3 billion - a whopping $5.8 billion more than in 2003. Does it not seem odd that employee compensation is nearly twice the firm's net income? And does it not seem odd that employee compensation has jumped 60% more than net income since 2003, even though the number of employees has barely increased at all? In fact the employee count has DROPPED since the end of 2002.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 19th Jan 2007 at 06:13.
SunFish - in light of SIA's decision to replace itc call staff in Australian with Indian call center staff, just where are the 30,000+ jobs in Australian aviation/tourism going to come from?
Are you seriously suggesting that if Qantas folds, there will suddenly be 30,000+ jobs found elsewhere for either disaffected staff or new entrants? If your arguments is based around the fact that new tourists to Australia will make up the diference once the air market to/from the USA is liberalised, are you seriously suggesting that Australia will have 600,000+ new tourists (with each of them spending atg least 6K each, based on an estimated Qantas workforce of 30,000 earning an average $60K each, taxed at marginal rates, being replaced by tourists only being taxed at 10% each...?)
If so, then I would have to suggest that you are seriously delusioned, and your post should be considered with a grain of salt...
As for your hatred of Sydney - please don;t get me started. Out of interest, where were Ansett planning to fly there international flights to/from....? Interesting...
Are you seriously suggesting that if Qantas folds, there will suddenly be 30,000+ jobs found elsewhere for either disaffected staff or new entrants? If your arguments is based around the fact that new tourists to Australia will make up the diference once the air market to/from the USA is liberalised, are you seriously suggesting that Australia will have 600,000+ new tourists (with each of them spending atg least 6K each, based on an estimated Qantas workforce of 30,000 earning an average $60K each, taxed at marginal rates, being replaced by tourists only being taxed at 10% each...?)
If so, then I would have to suggest that you are seriously delusioned, and your post should be considered with a grain of salt...
As for your hatred of Sydney - please don;t get me started. Out of interest, where were Ansett planning to fly there international flights to/from....? Interesting...
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish ,
I would like you to furnish the documentation and the person or group who produced those facts that support your absurd theory that by operating Qantas is costing the Australian economy more than 30,00 jobs.
I would like you to furnish the documentation and the person or group who produced those facts that support your absurd theory that by operating Qantas is costing the Australian economy more than 30,00 jobs.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh Sunfish, mate.... frankly I'm too busy flying 1000 hrs per year (which means 2000 hrs actually at work btw, but being paid for only 1000 hrs... oh, I don't even factor in study time at home, etc) to quibble with you for long. I actually agree with you - the shirkers in QF, and note I did acknowedge they exist, do, indeed, arguably "cost" Australian jobs if you look at the economics of it. As is the situation at many, if not most Australian companies. But Qantas certainly does not "cost" the Aust economy 30000 jobs. I dunno, let's say it's costing the economy 5000 jobs. Maybe 10000 jobs. Whatever the number.
My point is, Sunfish, you have stated repeatedly that you're happy to see the remaining 20000 or 25000 QF on the dole queue in the name of economic rationalism. 20000-25000 workers that do not, under any circumstances, deserve it. And mate, that makes you nasty.
Have the last word if you like. It's all yours. I'm off to earn SEVEN hours of pay for 48 hours away on duty. Not real efficient but I didn't write the roster! But during those duty hours I'll do my damnest to keep everyone safe and well, and comfortable and on time. Even you, Sunfish, should you be on one of my flights. And you want to see me on the dole........?
My point is, Sunfish, you have stated repeatedly that you're happy to see the remaining 20000 or 25000 QF on the dole queue in the name of economic rationalism. 20000-25000 workers that do not, under any circumstances, deserve it. And mate, that makes you nasty.
Have the last word if you like. It's all yours. I'm off to earn SEVEN hours of pay for 48 hours away on duty. Not real efficient but I didn't write the roster! But during those duty hours I'll do my damnest to keep everyone safe and well, and comfortable and on time. Even you, Sunfish, should you be on one of my flights. And you want to see me on the dole........?
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are we talking to Sunfish or Scumfish or is it the same person with an identity crisis.
If you want a basic lesson in economics 101 try this.....
If the Government gives in to the anti Qantas,ex Ansett or pro SIA,Emirates etc... and floods the market then a lot of people just like you will lose all of their frequent flapper points just as they did when Ansett went belly up.
Personally I would much prefer VB to start flying to the US.At least that way most or at least a large percentage of the money stays in Australia.
However this is not about economics it is all about anti Qantas sentiment because Ansett went south and they blame Qantas for it.
If you want a basic lesson in economics 101 try this.....
If the Government gives in to the anti Qantas,ex Ansett or pro SIA,Emirates etc... and floods the market then a lot of people just like you will lose all of their frequent flapper points just as they did when Ansett went belly up.
Personally I would much prefer VB to start flying to the US.At least that way most or at least a large percentage of the money stays in Australia.
However this is not about economics it is all about anti Qantas sentiment because Ansett went south and they blame Qantas for it.
Grandpa Aerotart
Economics 101?
SOCIALISM You have two cows. You keep one and give one to your neighbour (who has never worked hard enough to earn one).
COMMUNISM You have two cows. The government takes them both and provides you with milk. Sometimes. The ruling elite get the cream of course.
FASCISM You have two cows. The government takes them both and sells you the milk. The ruling elite get the cream of course.
BUREAUCRACY You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, and then pours it down the drain to save on transport costs.
CAPITALISM You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
CORPORATISM You have two cows. You sell one, force the other to produce the milk of four cows, then act surprised when it drops dead.
DEMOCRACY You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point that you must sell them both in order to pay the taxes to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow whichwas a gift from your government.
SOCIALISM You have two cows. You keep one and give one to your neighbour (who has never worked hard enough to earn one).
COMMUNISM You have two cows. The government takes them both and provides you with milk. Sometimes. The ruling elite get the cream of course.
FASCISM You have two cows. The government takes them both and sells you the milk. The ruling elite get the cream of course.
BUREAUCRACY You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, and then pours it down the drain to save on transport costs.
CAPITALISM You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
CORPORATISM You have two cows. You sell one, force the other to produce the milk of four cows, then act surprised when it drops dead.
DEMOCRACY You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point that you must sell them both in order to pay the taxes to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow whichwas a gift from your government.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Devonport Tasmania Australia
Posts: 1,837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I must admit to some empathy with Sunfish's stand.
The Loco bloke is personally aware of the treatment of QF staff in his home state that has caused a much valued sales person to move to a rival, and another who has been there since cocky was an egg and is much loved as an icon of the airline and industry to have become very ill due to the stress and negative treatment afforded him.
It is quite simple. QF wants them out of the place and the more they can scare or stress away the better management like it. No redundancies if your staff have mental collapses (there is no criticism involved there as I had one after EW folded and it is a scary address) and resign, but it appears that is the agenda that has been set for management to increase their bonuses.
Sorry folks, but I am of the opinion that QF is and has been preparing the airline for sale for some time. Staff are an expensive inconvenience, particularly if not operational.
You may yell at me all you like, but I was originally made redundant by some of the arseholes that are ex TN and still causing havoc in QF.
Personal gain is their only target.
Bloody tragic when you consider these idiots would be better suited to the supermarket industry and leave airlines to airline people.
EWL
The Loco bloke is personally aware of the treatment of QF staff in his home state that has caused a much valued sales person to move to a rival, and another who has been there since cocky was an egg and is much loved as an icon of the airline and industry to have become very ill due to the stress and negative treatment afforded him.
It is quite simple. QF wants them out of the place and the more they can scare or stress away the better management like it. No redundancies if your staff have mental collapses (there is no criticism involved there as I had one after EW folded and it is a scary address) and resign, but it appears that is the agenda that has been set for management to increase their bonuses.
Sorry folks, but I am of the opinion that QF is and has been preparing the airline for sale for some time. Staff are an expensive inconvenience, particularly if not operational.
You may yell at me all you like, but I was originally made redundant by some of the arseholes that are ex TN and still causing havoc in QF.
Personal gain is their only target.
Bloody tragic when you consider these idiots would be better suited to the supermarket industry and leave airlines to airline people.
EWL
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said EWL,
But the sunfish economic theory that QF is costing the country 30,000 jobs is absolute rubbish. He provides no proof or documentation for this drivel but continually regurgitates it.
This plus the fact that he is still bitter over the fact that Ansett went south and wants 30,00 Qf employees to lose their jobs.
These employees had nothing to do with Ansett’s fate and are being treated pathetically by their own management .
Yet Sunfish wants them out of the way simply because of his puerile attitude to Qantas and it’s Australian employees .His fetish for Asian and middle Eastern carriers exist probably because they are the only ones to provide competition to his reviled enemy.
This is not about economics but simply his irrational jealousy.
If he and others are upset about the lack of flights and opportunity for people living in Vict try complaining to your Gov.
Vict cannot even supply enough power for itself as it has to buy around 25% from NSW.If you want to stand on your own two feet you have to do something for yourselves.
Owen....The word is spelt dude...not dood and if you want to fly to Vietnam then I suppose you will have to fly with someone else much the same as if you wanted to fly to Morocco I suppose.Is there an airline that fly's to every airport in the world?
Owen if you had to move to VICTORIA then you can hardly blame Qantas for your bad luck
But the sunfish economic theory that QF is costing the country 30,000 jobs is absolute rubbish. He provides no proof or documentation for this drivel but continually regurgitates it.
This plus the fact that he is still bitter over the fact that Ansett went south and wants 30,00 Qf employees to lose their jobs.
These employees had nothing to do with Ansett’s fate and are being treated pathetically by their own management .
Yet Sunfish wants them out of the way simply because of his puerile attitude to Qantas and it’s Australian employees .His fetish for Asian and middle Eastern carriers exist probably because they are the only ones to provide competition to his reviled enemy.
This is not about economics but simply his irrational jealousy.
If he and others are upset about the lack of flights and opportunity for people living in Vict try complaining to your Gov.
Vict cannot even supply enough power for itself as it has to buy around 25% from NSW.If you want to stand on your own two feet you have to do something for yourselves.
Owen....The word is spelt dude...not dood and if you want to fly to Vietnam then I suppose you will have to fly with someone else much the same as if you wanted to fly to Morocco I suppose.Is there an airline that fly's to every airport in the world?
Owen if you had to move to VICTORIA then you can hardly blame Qantas for your bad luck
I'm about to go to the yacht club, but here is a quick reply. Lowerlobe, I left Ansett well before the 90's, and I remember it fondly, before it was gutted and then raped while the Government sat on its hands and tried to look the other way.
If you want to know the statistics, simply look in any textbook on economics. If there are 30,000 QF jobs that would dissappear (which wouldn't happen) the cost savings that are passed on to the rest of the Australian community will produce a net increase of more than 30,000 jobs.
The reality is that if market forces were allowed to apply more forcefully in the aviation market the Australian economy as a whole will benefit. For example, how do you think the Tourism boom could have happened if TAA and Ansett still did cosey little pricing deals in Macks at lunchtime? Do you think there would be a Cable Beach Resort or a Hamilton Island for example? The answer is very obviously no.
If you want to look at an experiment on free trade that worked, look no further than the AUstralian economy.
Qantas is not a Monopoly in name, but it effectively restricts access to increased capacity for foreign carriers to protect its market share, load factors and yield. Melbourne airport is down in capacity by 500,000 seats per year according to the airport and SIA.
CYA
If you want to know the statistics, simply look in any textbook on economics. If there are 30,000 QF jobs that would dissappear (which wouldn't happen) the cost savings that are passed on to the rest of the Australian community will produce a net increase of more than 30,000 jobs.
The reality is that if market forces were allowed to apply more forcefully in the aviation market the Australian economy as a whole will benefit. For example, how do you think the Tourism boom could have happened if TAA and Ansett still did cosey little pricing deals in Macks at lunchtime? Do you think there would be a Cable Beach Resort or a Hamilton Island for example? The answer is very obviously no.
If you want to look at an experiment on free trade that worked, look no further than the AUstralian economy.
Qantas is not a Monopoly in name, but it effectively restricts access to increased capacity for foreign carriers to protect its market share, load factors and yield. Melbourne airport is down in capacity by 500,000 seats per year according to the airport and SIA.
CYA
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish,
I’d like to know what books you are talking about that say when a company goes under and 30,000 jobs are lost a mysterious employment figure larger than that appears elsewhere.
What cost savings are you on about?
If 30,000 people lost their jobs then that not only means 30,000 people have not got any money to spend but this as any economist and person with average intelligence will tell you flows on to the rest of the economy.No money to spend on a car,shopping,a fridge,a house etc…the list is endless
Not only that but then those 30,000 people are on the dole which puts a larger burden on the tax payer.
You go on about market forces but how about the reality of those people on the dole? How many people took their own lives when Ansett went under and you are happy to have that happen to Qantas?
Then the figure you quote for Tullamarine ‘s supposed short fall is by ….Guess who…Mel Airport and SINGAPORE AIRLINES..
Pal go to the Yacht club you are a sorry twisted excuse of a human being and a joke.
I’d like to know what books you are talking about that say when a company goes under and 30,000 jobs are lost a mysterious employment figure larger than that appears elsewhere.
What cost savings are you on about?
If 30,000 people lost their jobs then that not only means 30,000 people have not got any money to spend but this as any economist and person with average intelligence will tell you flows on to the rest of the economy.No money to spend on a car,shopping,a fridge,a house etc…the list is endless
Not only that but then those 30,000 people are on the dole which puts a larger burden on the tax payer.
You go on about market forces but how about the reality of those people on the dole? How many people took their own lives when Ansett went under and you are happy to have that happen to Qantas?
Then the figure you quote for Tullamarine ‘s supposed short fall is by ….Guess who…Mel Airport and SINGAPORE AIRLINES..
Pal go to the Yacht club you are a sorry twisted excuse of a human being and a joke.
a Hamilton Island for example
Didn't you say a few weeks ago that you were leaving PPruNe as you'd had enough? Shame you didn't follow through on that "threat" and take your sanctimonious, self-serving and sycophantic rantings elsewhere. I noted how quickly you deleted that thread once it became apparent people weren't begging you to stay around. "Good riddance" was the general tone of the posts that followed I seem to recall.
You have fun at the yacht club. Little people like us used to dream of belonging to places like that, now we just get to watch others go instead....
Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 20th Jan 2007 at 05:50.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: mascot
Age: 57
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mate not as big as the hole in sunfish's argument.I could drive a kenworth through his story and I reckon the captain should have gone down with the yacht.I am going to call sunfish gilligan from now on.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NSW Australia YSCH
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
" For example, how do you think the Tourism boom could have happened if TAA and Ansett still did cosey little pricing deals in Macks at lunchtime? "
Sunfish,
I resent those remarks all my deals were done over an extended lunch in the Wenthworth Garden Court restaurant or the Ayes Rock Grill, with both TN and
AN.
Sunfish,
I resent those remarks all my deals were done over an extended lunch in the Wenthworth Garden Court restaurant or the Ayes Rock Grill, with both TN and
AN.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: some dive
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and I refuse to fly with organisations who treat their staff like ****.
