Jetstar International Losing Pilots Already?
Gnadenburg
You really like spinning some s**t for someone who doesn’t work for QF.
You prove to me that apart from the initial endorsement that LCC’s in Australia spend less on training than QF. QF just like CX has been doing their darnedest to cut training costs where ever they can. The number of sims at both companies that a pilot can expect to see have been cut to the bone. We have a former C&T from DJ working as a sim instructor here at CX. I know exactly what the average DJ guy has to go through and it aint much different from what a CX or a QF guy has to go through.
As for the star chamber at CX. Well yes it can be a pain in the arse as I have come foul of it myself but have learnt from it. It’s a case of learning to play the game. By the way the command pass rate on the bus for the last six months has been around 85% and in the 90’s on the B777.
As for the AUD$30K you think the average CX guy earns. I’m getting sick of you mouthing off that BS. The average F/O would be on about half that and Capt would be about AUD$5K short. This is including housing as well. Don’t get me started either on what an Aus based CX F/O or Capt earns because quite frankly if they heard you say what you have just said they would probably punch your lights out.
Next time I suggest you get your information correct before quoting it as fact here because it makes the rest of your argument look, well, made up.
You really like spinning some s**t for someone who doesn’t work for QF.
And my point reference the standards at LCC's was systemic- and not pointed toward the individual! The money LCC's invest in TRG would be significantly less than QF say.
Lucky for you BTW, you have the English, Star Chamber, high failure rates etc
If you had the LCC philosphy & training structure of Virgin Blue or J*, I doubt you would be getting your 30K a month package at CX.
Next time I suggest you get your information correct before quoting it as fact here because it makes the rest of your argument look, well, made up.
404,
Have you seen the QF sim and training centre in Sydney?
You prove to me that apart from the initial endorsement that LCC’s in Australia spend less on training than QF.
Sprucegoose
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apart from the odd new sim
The point is QF have invested substantially over the decades so maybe we can forgive the person who originally picked the brown bricks!
Wingspar
Whether a company buys their own sims or uses someone else’s makes no difference to the quality of the training and checking as long as they have control of it. Actually I think DJ do own one or two of their own sims. Just because they don’t have as many as QF is more a case of who operates more and differing types of aircraft than anything else.
Yes I have been to the QF training centre at Mascot. It’s bigger than DJ’s simply because they have to house more sims. Given time just like QF has, I’m sure that DJ will have a large training centre. They just don’t need one as big as QF’s, certainly not right now.
Whether a company buys their own sims or uses someone else’s makes no difference to the quality of the training and checking as long as they have control of it. Actually I think DJ do own one or two of their own sims. Just because they don’t have as many as QF is more a case of who operates more and differing types of aircraft than anything else.
Yes I have been to the QF training centre at Mascot. It’s bigger than DJ’s simply because they have to house more sims. Given time just like QF has, I’m sure that DJ will have a large training centre. They just don’t need one as big as QF’s, certainly not right now.
You aren't the brightest. And your comprehension lacking if you re-read my previous.
And regarding that "event", I would suggest the greatest betrayal of conditions of service for pilots in this country, was from former 89ers repatriating to create the T&C's at Virgin Blue!
If you leave Buzzy, you don't affect the bottom line. From the day you paid for your own training, you took away Virgin Blue's investment risk. You are cheap and simple to replace. You, as attrition, mean nothing!
I can see how you could fall foul of Star Chamber C404. But have you learn't your lesson? You are very aggressive.
Perhaps, if you were as creative in accounting as Virgin Blue pilots at social events, you could add allowances, superannuation and other incidentals to drag that package toward 30K a month. And in a strict discussion of market forces, let us consider captains, it's far easier to compare payscales, costs and industry demand.
Buzzy Versus C404. Low Cost Pilot versus Legacy Pilot.
From the day you did your interviews to the day you started line flying, how much did each of you cost your respective employer?
Buzzy? Near zero or perhaps that single sim' session?
C404? C'mon. Conservatively? How long were you on the payrole before you were revenue?
What does it cost to get a Captain trained at a legacy carrier versus a low cost carrier?
Now, Buzzy & C404 decide to leave the company for Korean Airlines. What did Buzzy cost the company in lost investment and what will his replacement cost be? Versus C404?
J* pilots leaving for Korean is meaningless. Market forces are irrelevant and attrition replacement cost effective. Conditions won't improve!
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I mean really Gardenburglar!
3 posts in half an hour from you. Pacing around your apartment, rubbing your moustache and hissing at the world. Thinking of ways to berate everyone but your important self.
He says. Herin is the character of Gnadenburg.
Thats all from me thanks
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz
3 posts in half an hour from you. Pacing around your apartment, rubbing your moustache and hissing at the world. Thinking of ways to berate everyone but your important self.
Dob them in!
Thats all from me thanks bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz
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Mr Buzzy, its a bit rich you trying to put others down, when clearly when you make posts like this your standards are questionable.
More to the point, since 1989, QANTAS would have employed nearly 1000+ pilots (and in fact nearly 1000 pilots from 1999) (or roughly just under half the current total of pilots) many of which would have had nothing to do with that event, in fact I would suggest a large majority were still in school at the time.
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Agreed entirely Blueloo,
every "low cost" pilot worldwide has been tarred by gardenburgar's same brush; just handing back a similar meaningless line.
bbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz
every "low cost" pilot worldwide has been tarred by gardenburgar's same brush; just handing back a similar meaningless line.
bbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz
Gnadenburg
Actually my coming foul of the “Start Chamber” was my fault and it wasn’t for political reasons. I’ve flown on numerous occasions with all the airbus management pilots at CX and they know I am one of the more pleasant F/O’s to fly with. I am the last person if you knew me to call “aggressive”. Assertive is more appropriate.
I am very creative with accounting as I should be being a CPA. In those figures I gave you of what a CX F/O and Capt earn, I included the housing allowance.
I have many QF mates who just shake their heads at some of the numb nuts within their company that come on this forum and slag off the abilities and professionalism of their LCC brethren, simply because they do the same job for less dosh. Get over it shags. You need to shake hands with them and start working together as a collective group to improve the conditions for all. This goes for you too Buzzy.
I just like you don’t like the fact that these LCC make the new applicant pay for their endorsement. I would has it a guess that most LCC pilots hate it as well. Does this make them less professional than you and me? No, of course not. Excluding the initial endorsement costs which are small compared to the ongoing training cost, the pilot at a LCC in Aus has to go through all the same regulatory BS that a pilot at QF does every year. As I said the real costs lye in the ongoing checking and training a pilot must undergo to maintain his/her licence and upgrade. Here the cost per pilot would be about the same. The longer a pilot stays with a particular carrier the more it costs the airline to lose them, period.
If they leave in such numbers as to disrupt the airlines operations, it will.
I can see how you could fall foul of Star Chamber C404. But have you learn't your lesson? You are very aggressive.
Perhaps, if you were as creative in accounting as Virgin Blue pilots at social events, you could add allowances, superannuation and other incidentals to drag that package toward 30K a month. And in a strict discussion of market forces, let us consider captains, it's far easier to compare payscales, costs and industry demand.
I have many QF mates who just shake their heads at some of the numb nuts within their company that come on this forum and slag off the abilities and professionalism of their LCC brethren, simply because they do the same job for less dosh. Get over it shags. You need to shake hands with them and start working together as a collective group to improve the conditions for all. This goes for you too Buzzy.
Buzzy Versus C404. Low Cost Pilot versus Legacy Pilot.
From the day you did your interviews to the day you started line flying, how much did each of you cost your respective employer?
Buzzy? Near zero or perhaps that single sim' session?
C404? C'mon. Conservatively? How long were you on the payrole before you were revenue?
What does it cost to get a Captain trained at a legacy carrier versus a low cost carrier?
Now, Buzzy & C404 decide to leave the company for Korean Airlines. What did Buzzy cost the company in lost investment and what will his replacement cost be? Versus C404?
From the day you did your interviews to the day you started line flying, how much did each of you cost your respective employer?
Buzzy? Near zero or perhaps that single sim' session?
C404? C'mon. Conservatively? How long were you on the payrole before you were revenue?
What does it cost to get a Captain trained at a legacy carrier versus a low cost carrier?
Now, Buzzy & C404 decide to leave the company for Korean Airlines. What did Buzzy cost the company in lost investment and what will his replacement cost be? Versus C404?
J* pilots leaving for Korean is meaningless. Market forces are irrelevant and attrition replacement cost effective. Conditions won't improve!
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But heaven forbid if the centre looks tired even though where the actually training takes place is state of the art...
Sprucegoose
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Lets face it, most QF guys with the exception of a few ex Ansett types, have only ever flown with QF, so they have nothing to compare the standards too, so of course they are of the opinion that QF is number 1 in training practices.
It's a big world out there and some of the LCC's may even be doing things a little better than their Legacy counterparts...
Out of interest, I too would like to know the answer to the original question!
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Actually I think you would find most QF guys would think how bad QF training is (and maybe this is biased because they have no-one to compare how bad others are...????)
In fact QF does very little training, and a lot of testing. Guys are meant to be able to perform to a high standard with virtually nil training.
The good thing is that the short haul system seems to have seen the light, and is in fact ramping up the training which is fantastic compared to the old system.
Nunc est bibendum
There are other things in QF training that are less than impressive but I believe the system is making good efforts at improving the delivery of 'training' in terms of simulators and so on.