National Jet Systems - Recruiting.
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Black Hand Magic, so you're in the position of having to choose whether to sign a new AWA with a mechanism that will affect not only yourself or new starts?
Again, it is a hell of a situation for all employees of Cobham to be in - keep a job by accepting a small increase and acknowledging that there will be changes to future staff $'s or don't sign, maintain present conditions while actively seek something else which ultimately may not be offered.
Yes, it is an easy decision isn't it ..
Again, it is a hell of a situation for all employees of Cobham to be in - keep a job by accepting a small increase and acknowledging that there will be changes to future staff $'s or don't sign, maintain present conditions while actively seek something else which ultimately may not be offered.
Yes, it is an easy decision isn't it ..
Actually, the decision should be easy, it is the course of action that is not. Accepting the introduction of a “B” scale will ALWAYS end up biting you in the arse. By saying it is alright to pay new hires a reduced pay rate to do the same job you are, in effect, telling management that you are overpaid and they will then attempt to reduce your wage to the lower level. NJS are known to be the lowest paid jet pilots in the country, who are you competing against by accepting yet lower wages?
If my memory is correct, this is the second time in recent times that the management of NJS have asked pilots to effectively take a reduction in pay and conditions. My friends it is quite simple. Management are going to continue to ask you to reduce your remuneration until you have the strength to say NO. You can say no now and keep the conditions you now enjoy, or you can wait. Eventually you are going to get to the point where you have to say NO, you may as well make that point now and keep what you have. Remember, you don't have to reduce your pay to compete with anyone.
As BHM said, it is so simple it hurts, but then again as a group pilots amaze me at how stupid they are.
If my memory is correct, this is the second time in recent times that the management of NJS have asked pilots to effectively take a reduction in pay and conditions. My friends it is quite simple. Management are going to continue to ask you to reduce your remuneration until you have the strength to say NO. You can say no now and keep the conditions you now enjoy, or you can wait. Eventually you are going to get to the point where you have to say NO, you may as well make that point now and keep what you have. Remember, you don't have to reduce your pay to compete with anyone.
As BHM said, it is so simple it hurts, but then again as a group pilots amaze me at how stupid they are.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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engineers leaving
i do believe PER is suffering from VR with its engineers but also are led to believe MEL has lost nearly all of its "experienced" B727 engineers on nightshift add to that the shortage of flightcrew. seems the CIA really dont have any idea when it comes to the grass roots of why contracts are lost!!!!
Headmaster
back to school for you.
Try Alliance
$104K v $127K
NJS pilots will vote as NJS pilots wish, not influenced bypressure from outside influences.
NJS are known to be the lowest paid jet pilots in the country
$104K v $127K
NJS pilots will vote as NJS pilots wish, not influenced bypressure from outside influences.
Last edited by RENURPP; 15th Dec 2006 at 05:38.
Thank you ppruner, I am happy to be corrected when I am in error. So, NJS pilots are not the lowest paid jet pilots in the country. I would still like to reaffirm my position, however, that as a group NJS pilots will paid according to the strength of their will. The company will continue to try to reduce labour costs. If workers accept a reduction of conditions the company will continue to ask for these reductions until the workforce determine they have had enough and decide they will act. My point is that at some stage the workers will have to say “no”, so they may as well take that stand now. To not do it now is simply procrastinating hoping that the company is going to magically change its cost cutting agenda.
I am not quite sure what you are trying to say in your statement:
“NJS pilots will vote as NJS pilots wish, not influenced by pressure from outside influences on here, who's main concern is that they may be placed in a similar position and not have the stomach to fight themselves.”
Sure they will vote as they wish, but I hope that they show a little less naivety than they exhibited when they were last asked to accept a lowering of conditions. I speak regularly to several NJS pilots and I know that many now realise that they were hoodwinked by management at the the last vote. I hope that as a group the NJS pilot body has learned a lesson from it.
As to the second half of the statement, I am not sure if you are referring to me in particular or not. I do not have any misconception that NJS showing some industrial fortitude is going to change the conditions for all pilots in this country. What is required is that all groups of pilots realise that they have a set of skills that are required for the safe, efficient and profitable running of an airline. Without those skills the airline would not function. I would like all pilots to be confident that if they have the will to act collectively they have considerable ability to control their own future.
I am not quite sure what you are trying to say in your statement:
“NJS pilots will vote as NJS pilots wish, not influenced by pressure from outside influences on here, who's main concern is that they may be placed in a similar position and not have the stomach to fight themselves.”
Sure they will vote as they wish, but I hope that they show a little less naivety than they exhibited when they were last asked to accept a lowering of conditions. I speak regularly to several NJS pilots and I know that many now realise that they were hoodwinked by management at the the last vote. I hope that as a group the NJS pilot body has learned a lesson from it.
As to the second half of the statement, I am not sure if you are referring to me in particular or not. I do not have any misconception that NJS showing some industrial fortitude is going to change the conditions for all pilots in this country. What is required is that all groups of pilots realise that they have a set of skills that are required for the safe, efficient and profitable running of an airline. Without those skills the airline would not function. I would like all pilots to be confident that if they have the will to act collectively they have considerable ability to control their own future.
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Win Win
What happens from here, current NJS pilots say no to new conditions. That won't matter if the new guys/gals do, awa's are INDIVIDUAL contracts. That may very well be what this is about, as someone hinted at earlier. If you don't suck it in we have 40 others ready to come on down.
You could go to J*, how many others have? Where did the 146 people go from feb. Then you would be bagged for undercutting mainline QF win/win eh. Most of the mob want to stay in NJS and like their jobs. The problem is they are getting squeezed like everyone else.
This reduction in T&C's seems to be an industry wide agenda. Is it an economic reality as people are saying? Or is it a concerted effort by a small number of companies to reduce wages making them look proper flash while not respecting the ability of Australian pilots. It's like a competition to see who can get away with the most.
You could go to J*, how many others have? Where did the 146 people go from feb. Then you would be bagged for undercutting mainline QF win/win eh. Most of the mob want to stay in NJS and like their jobs. The problem is they are getting squeezed like everyone else.
This reduction in T&C's seems to be an industry wide agenda. Is it an economic reality as people are saying? Or is it a concerted effort by a small number of companies to reduce wages making them look proper flash while not respecting the ability of Australian pilots. It's like a competition to see who can get away with the most.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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It's Not All About Salary
REN,
I have seen an income comparison done on excell which compares the Alliance and NJS T&C's including overtime. It shows that while Alliance have a smaller salary, from around 65 hours upwards, the overtime conditions dictate that a NJS pilot (most of whom are working over 70 hours/month), has a smaller monthly pay packet than if they were on Alliance conditions.
That fact should back up that...
... at least for the workload they are currently flying.
Try Alliance
$104K v $127K
$104K v $127K
That fact should back up that...
NJS are known to be the lowest paid jet pilots in the country
Join Date: Jun 2000
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I think you will find pilots flying for Our Airline (B737) are the lowest paid jet pilots in Australia. FO's start on $59000, plus pay for their type rating, no pay for working on RDO's and no overtime allowance.
Next in line would be those pilots flying for Air Pacific, but employed by a contract company. Captains are paid $500(NZ) and FO's $350(NZ) per day.
But with NJS's 'B' scale, it will make them the lowest paid jet pilots in Australia
Next in line would be those pilots flying for Air Pacific, but employed by a contract company. Captains are paid $500(NZ) and FO's $350(NZ) per day.
But with NJS's 'B' scale, it will make them the lowest paid jet pilots in Australia
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
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Lower wages is the least of NJS pilot’s concerns. Qantas are currently reviewing the B717 ops and are due to make a decision within the next 6 months regarding their future. It’s no secret, Qantas are not happy with the performance of the B717 and the article in the NT news a few weeks back didn’t help.
We may even see the F100 in Qantas colours, supplied by Skywest or Alliance.
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...hp?id=00006301
The F100 looks good in these colours.
We may even see the F100 in Qantas colours, supplied by Skywest or Alliance.
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...hp?id=00006301
The F100 looks good in these colours.
No Worries, the whole reason NJS is cutting back on pay is so they can keep the B717 contract, the wage cost is apparently a very high percentage of the B717 contract expenses. The issues are closely tied together.
Join Date: May 2000
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The QFlink contract will be finalised in 6 weeks not 6 months. The 717s are definetely here for a while yet possibly 10 years. The question is who? Well it will be NJS unless their cost base far exceeds what QF can do it for themselves. There is a growing trend (see EFA) that with new IR laws that QF can do it and avoid the middle man, however in this case NJS are still the best option. As for the F100, similar cost base of the 717 but 20% less capacity. The hunge also experiences difficulties because of Fokker's non-existance and a third party now operates spares and performance.
It is true that the B717 has experienced some problems, but I have not seen an aircraft yet that can avoid breakdowns. As for the performance lims, during peak times, ie winter months the aircraft is not limited and performs well.
It is true that the B717 has experienced some problems, but I have not seen an aircraft yet that can avoid breakdowns. As for the performance lims, during peak times, ie winter months the aircraft is not limited and performs well.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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I’ve also heard that if the B717’s stay, they could return to Jetstar, but like NJS’s, there will be a ‘B’ scale wage.
Last edited by No worries mate; 9th Jan 2007 at 09:47.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Could'nt be further off the mark Aerocat.
Based on drivers doing 800 hrs a year, tech crew cost is 250 bucks an hour, on an A/C that is probably in the region of 5-5500 an hour to operate.
To give the crew a 10K payrise would cost 12.50 an hour.
Yet the CIA are happy for the A/C to fly around 3-5000' below optimum costing 150kg of fuel per hour.
You are CIA material for sure
Based on drivers doing 800 hrs a year, tech crew cost is 250 bucks an hour, on an A/C that is probably in the region of 5-5500 an hour to operate.
To give the crew a 10K payrise would cost 12.50 an hour.
Yet the CIA are happy for the A/C to fly around 3-5000' below optimum costing 150kg of fuel per hour.
You are CIA material for sure
Well I did say "apparently". My source of information is the travelling NJS roadshow, whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you. They make no such claims about other areas of the organisation that are not performing.
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Last time I checked Boeing were still operating......yep checked again, still going. They will support their product along with the few thousand diesel 9s and MD series that still operate. Rekkof or stork on the other hand can pull the rug whenever they like! As for the Jetstar B scale you talk about, their agreement has provisions for two types, widebody and narrowbody, end of story.
Dog1
Alliance have to fly in excess of 73 hrs per month, every month, to attain the same base $ value.
I don't think they go close to that at the moment.
Base salary and O/T are two items that make up T&C's.
Consider annual leave, sick leave entitlements, called in on days off, meal allowances, super annuation, there is more to an employment package then base salary.
Not many NJS pilots are complaining about their current T&C's its the attempt to reduce them that is creating friction.
I don't think they go close to that at the moment.
Base salary and O/T are two items that make up T&C's.
Consider annual leave, sick leave entitlements, called in on days off, meal allowances, super annuation, there is more to an employment package then base salary.
Not many NJS pilots are complaining about their current T&C's its the attempt to reduce them that is creating friction.
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Yep, your right Sydneyman. A "B" payscale is pretty crappy. But don't point the finger at the masses too much, they're probably on the "E" and "F" payscale/ conditions in GA Turbo-prop!