Qantas, try doing this... Out-sourced Jobs payback
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How about all pilots show their dissatisfaction with the current bodies and move over to the Transport Workers Union, atleast they have some power
Im tired of being told by my current union that "We suggest you sign this 'cos it's as good as it's gonna get" The same union that sits back and lets unpaid members of a companies pilot body do all the hard bargaining work while the union does f*&K all but collect our membership dollars! When pay and conditions are being negotiated, where are the well trained and well versed negotiators that we are paying for!
Or how many times have you heard this from other pilots? "I'm really only this for the loss of licence protection"
As far as this gem goes:
earn equal to or more now than I did with my previous airline that collapsed 5 years ago. And I only average about 10hrs per month more than my previous airline 5 years ago. Well go figure!!
"Would sir fender like another serve of vaseline? Oh no. You're alright jack, shall I f*&k everyone else for you then?"
bbbbbbbbzzzzztimetoriseupbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzz
Goaty, you are right up to a point, managers are there to provide returns to shareholders.
However there is slightly more to it than that, the purpose of management is to maximise long term value of the firm.
Its that emphasis on long term that is missing. Outsourcing will provide a short term profit fix, as will dissing the pilots and treating your staff like crap in support of short term (bonus driven) goals.
To put it another way, ....karma.
However there is slightly more to it than that, the purpose of management is to maximise long term value of the firm.
Its that emphasis on long term that is missing. Outsourcing will provide a short term profit fix, as will dissing the pilots and treating your staff like crap in support of short term (bonus driven) goals.
To put it another way, ....karma.
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Outsourcing of IT in general is nothing new. Many government departments have been doing this on a large scale over the years. Other airlines are apparently doing it as well including SQ.
I can see it now..........about two years from now........
C; "Hi This is Ross Smith, I want to book a flight to London and a few other places."
QF: "Mr. Smith, what is your frequent flyer number?"
C: "F&*^ed if I know the card went into the briny with me tinny when a Noah took me bait. The other day."
QF: "What?"
C: "I'm the Ross Smith from Wollongong."
QF : "Wollon?."
You get my drift. And if you think I'm being racist, the worst I've had is "customer service" from someone in Atlanta, Georgia that couldn't even speak English, only ebonics.
C; "Hi This is Ross Smith, I want to book a flight to London and a few other places."
QF: "Mr. Smith, what is your frequent flyer number?"
C: "F&*^ed if I know the card went into the briny with me tinny when a Noah took me bait. The other day."
QF: "What?"
C: "I'm the Ross Smith from Wollongong."
QF : "Wollon?."
You get my drift. And if you think I'm being racist, the worst I've had is "customer service" from someone in Atlanta, Georgia that couldn't even speak English, only ebonics.
I'm not a racist, but
Sunfish
Normally I enjoy your posts and have come to the opinion that you care about the things you write. On this occassion of outsourcing commentary, I should think that you and all of those who have made some rather flippant and un-educated remarks think twice.
I commend you all to read "the world is flat" by Thomas Friedman to help explain where I'm coming from.
If we, by that I mean Australian Economy, want to trade and be competitive with the rest of the world whay would we do ANYTHING here that was not location specific, if it cost 10% elsewhere? In these days of skilled labour shortages why are you all crying about it? I'm seriously thinking of going to Mascot and offering all of these people jobs in Canberra, where there are 1500 IT jobs going begging.
Sometimes I read these posts and think that most of the people who post here live in some bubble, where they think the world revolves around them and that the community owes them a living because they learned to fly an aeroplane! What magic protective suit did you all buy when you did your flying training, because I'm sure that the shoemakers union would have wanted to wear it before the punters decided that Chinese made Reeboks were better than Newcastle made ones.
Madness!
Look at the reality of the situation - for the most part the "monkey work" can and should be done in the most efficient (cost and time) manner possible - otherwise the people who own your Company (the Shareholders) will put their money somewhere else.
Rant over.
Normally I enjoy your posts and have come to the opinion that you care about the things you write. On this occassion of outsourcing commentary, I should think that you and all of those who have made some rather flippant and un-educated remarks think twice.
I commend you all to read "the world is flat" by Thomas Friedman to help explain where I'm coming from.
If we, by that I mean Australian Economy, want to trade and be competitive with the rest of the world whay would we do ANYTHING here that was not location specific, if it cost 10% elsewhere? In these days of skilled labour shortages why are you all crying about it? I'm seriously thinking of going to Mascot and offering all of these people jobs in Canberra, where there are 1500 IT jobs going begging.
Sometimes I read these posts and think that most of the people who post here live in some bubble, where they think the world revolves around them and that the community owes them a living because they learned to fly an aeroplane! What magic protective suit did you all buy when you did your flying training, because I'm sure that the shoemakers union would have wanted to wear it before the punters decided that Chinese made Reeboks were better than Newcastle made ones.
Madness!
Look at the reality of the situation - for the most part the "monkey work" can and should be done in the most efficient (cost and time) manner possible - otherwise the people who own your Company (the Shareholders) will put their money somewhere else.
Rant over.
Grandpa Aerotart
LB that is all well and good...but you are talking about human beings not cost centers.
The fact is that real wages for mr and mrs average have been going backwards since the early 70s.
Now mr and mrs CEO, politician etc etc have most definately had payrises way out of proportion and HUGE multiples of inflation.
Just how long do you think mr and mrs average will tolerate this scenario?
How long do you think the pollies will support corporate aspirations when they suddenly realise the majority of voters have had enough of being outsourced to the sub continent or made redundant and the next day re employed at a 15% discount?
Nothing concentrates the mind of a politician like the real prospect of 20 years on the opposition bench.
There is a very real limit that I think is being approached. Just how long do you think real wages can go down while the cost of living is going up before something gives in a big way?
The fact is that real wages for mr and mrs average have been going backwards since the early 70s.
Now mr and mrs CEO, politician etc etc have most definately had payrises way out of proportion and HUGE multiples of inflation.
Just how long do you think mr and mrs average will tolerate this scenario?
How long do you think the pollies will support corporate aspirations when they suddenly realise the majority of voters have had enough of being outsourced to the sub continent or made redundant and the next day re employed at a 15% discount?
Nothing concentrates the mind of a politician like the real prospect of 20 years on the opposition bench.
There is a very real limit that I think is being approached. Just how long do you think real wages can go down while the cost of living is going up before something gives in a big way?
The only good thing to come out of the NT News. 
maybe this is the future???
With the greatest of respect Lead Balloon, you are missing the point. For a start, when communicating with someone, 90% is visual. So when we are talking on the telephone we are only communicating with 10% effiiciency.
So then remove the colloquialisms, accents, not to mention slang and the efficiency of the communication drops to maybe 5%.
I mean what I say, try discussing the solution to a Windows XP networking problem with someone from the Deep South of the U.S. of A and you will understand what I mean. You have almost no hoipe of resolving the problem, not based on technical competence, but based on ability to communicate (To borrow that famous line from Hud).
So try explaining that you want ticket to Gladstone because you are going diving on Heron Island, but you then want a return not from Gladstone but from Mackay. try explaining that to a person who doesn't know what "Heron Island" means", or what "Diving" means.
You can see the problem in microscosm when ringing "000" and the F%^78ers ask you which state you are ringing from, then ask you for an intersection because they have no f&*^ing idea where you are! A mate of mine recently watched a car run off the road and into a tree. The F^756ers on the phone asked him for the street details, all he knew was that he was on the Prince's Highway next to a certain factory.
To put it another way, lets reverse the situation. How would you think an Australian call centre operator would deal with an Indian caller who asked for a ticket from the city of the Red Fort to the City of Jinnahs tomb? (Assuming there actually is an air service).
So then remove the colloquialisms, accents, not to mention slang and the efficiency of the communication drops to maybe 5%.
I mean what I say, try discussing the solution to a Windows XP networking problem with someone from the Deep South of the U.S. of A and you will understand what I mean. You have almost no hoipe of resolving the problem, not based on technical competence, but based on ability to communicate (To borrow that famous line from Hud).
So try explaining that you want ticket to Gladstone because you are going diving on Heron Island, but you then want a return not from Gladstone but from Mackay. try explaining that to a person who doesn't know what "Heron Island" means", or what "Diving" means.
You can see the problem in microscosm when ringing "000" and the F%^78ers ask you which state you are ringing from, then ask you for an intersection because they have no f&*^ing idea where you are! A mate of mine recently watched a car run off the road and into a tree. The F^756ers on the phone asked him for the street details, all he knew was that he was on the Prince's Highway next to a certain factory.
To put it another way, lets reverse the situation. How would you think an Australian call centre operator would deal with an Indian caller who asked for a ticket from the city of the Red Fort to the City of Jinnahs tomb? (Assuming there actually is an air service).
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Here's what I do when recieving a call from a Dehlimarketer...
"Hello my name is Rahj and I am calling to offer you a most wonderful deal....."
"Rahj! I'll have a butter chicken, beef vindaloo, rice and 2 garlic naans".
.....confuses the hell out of them.
"Hello my name is Rahj and I am calling to offer you a most wonderful deal....."
"Rahj! I'll have a butter chicken, beef vindaloo, rice and 2 garlic naans".
.....confuses the hell out of them.
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I'm with Chuckles.
You take enough multipliers out of the economy without taking away an equivalent volume of voting rights and the economic rationalists will get banished into opposition...for a very long time.
Another very important point in this whole debate relates to business risk. It seems the only business risk being accounted for here is the risk to GD's bonus if he doesn't outsource as much as possible to India. What analysis has been done on terrorism turning the IT system to dust? Then there is the corporate lobotomy argument already mentioned.
We are just going to all sit around and watch the 'clever country' become an oxymoron.
Have another glass of vin de loo...cos that is what is being proferred by your good masters.
You take enough multipliers out of the economy without taking away an equivalent volume of voting rights and the economic rationalists will get banished into opposition...for a very long time.
Another very important point in this whole debate relates to business risk. It seems the only business risk being accounted for here is the risk to GD's bonus if he doesn't outsource as much as possible to India. What analysis has been done on terrorism turning the IT system to dust? Then there is the corporate lobotomy argument already mentioned.
We are just going to all sit around and watch the 'clever country' become an oxymoron.
Have another glass of vin de loo...cos that is what is being proferred by your good masters.
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“The fact is that real wages for mr and mrs average have been going backwards since the early 70s.”
And yet the salaries of mr and mrs average ozmate are still about 30 times higher than the salaries of mr and mrs average Bangladesh / Vietnam textile worker doing exactly the same job.
“Just how long do you think mr and mrs average will tolerate this scenario?”
Mr and mrs average can refuse to tolerate this situation until they are blue in the face but global capital flows to where the labor is cheap, and the western world aint cheap. mr and mrs average oz are foolish to think they or thier government can stop the outflow of jobs to the third world.
“There is a very real limit that I think is being approached. Just how long do you think real wages can go down while the cost of living is going up before something gives in a big way”
Until mr and mrs average oz are in a similar position to mr and mrs average in the rest of the world, with no clean water, no motor car, no aircon, barely enough income to pay for dinner.
Australians have very little to complain about my friend.
And yet the salaries of mr and mrs average ozmate are still about 30 times higher than the salaries of mr and mrs average Bangladesh / Vietnam textile worker doing exactly the same job.
“Just how long do you think mr and mrs average will tolerate this scenario?”
Mr and mrs average can refuse to tolerate this situation until they are blue in the face but global capital flows to where the labor is cheap, and the western world aint cheap. mr and mrs average oz are foolish to think they or thier government can stop the outflow of jobs to the third world.
“There is a very real limit that I think is being approached. Just how long do you think real wages can go down while the cost of living is going up before something gives in a big way”
Until mr and mrs average oz are in a similar position to mr and mrs average in the rest of the world, with no clean water, no motor car, no aircon, barely enough income to pay for dinner.
Australians have very little to complain about my friend.
Grandpa Aerotart
So in your view all the average australian can look forward to is constantly decreasing pay and conditions until they are on a par with the average worker on the sub continent?
What sort of moron are you?
Do you really think the population will shrug their shoulders and accept that? Accept that their houses are now worth 10% of what they paid for them because no one can afford 300k for a house...no one can afford $280/wk rent...no one can afford 6k for a car let alone 40k...no one can afford to fly on VB...of course the banks will be thrilled as people declare bankruptsy and they have to fire sale assetts into a collapsed market.
And all this while the CEOs bank 7 figure bonuses?
You don't detect just a little flaw in that sort of economic rationalism?
What sort of moron are you?
Do you really think the population will shrug their shoulders and accept that? Accept that their houses are now worth 10% of what they paid for them because no one can afford 300k for a house...no one can afford $280/wk rent...no one can afford 6k for a car let alone 40k...no one can afford to fly on VB...of course the banks will be thrilled as people declare bankruptsy and they have to fire sale assetts into a collapsed market.
And all this while the CEOs bank 7 figure bonuses?
You don't detect just a little flaw in that sort of economic rationalism?
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Indian call centers
Its funny my phone has caller ID so I know when I get an "Overseas" phone call and ever since I started answering the phone thusly:
me: Hello
them: Hello am I speaking to mr or mrs xyz
me: (putting on a posh british butler type voice) I am sorry the master and mistress are currently in the dungeon preparing the goat to be sacrificed to bealzebub....if you would like to have your name added to the list of supplicants I am sure they would be willing to do so...............
Curiously they hang up and never ring back. I wonder why?
me: Hello
them: Hello am I speaking to mr or mrs xyz
me: (putting on a posh british butler type voice) I am sorry the master and mistress are currently in the dungeon preparing the goat to be sacrificed to bealzebub....if you would like to have your name added to the list of supplicants I am sure they would be willing to do so...............
Curiously they hang up and never ring back. I wonder why?
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“So in your view all the average australian can look forward to is constantly decreasing pay and conditions”
Yes, I do. Even you said so in your post, remember – “The fact is that real wages for mr and mrs average have been going backwards since the early 70s.”
“What sort of moron are you?”
I don’t know really - what sort are there. What sort are you. We may be the same sort of moron. How odd would that be?
“Do you really think the population will shrug their shoulders and accept that?”
No, I don’t think the population will accept it at all but like the employees of countries such as Argentina, Canada the US and those of the Eurozone, Australian employees will have little say as to the relocation of jobs to cheaper labor markets.
Decreasing pay and more importantly the increase in the flexibility of employees will continue until the market decides that competitiveness has returned to the western world. It has a long, long way to go.
“Curiously they hang up and never ring back. I wonder why?”
Way to go welcome stranger, you really will be making an impact on the globalization of the labor market with that one.
Yes, I do. Even you said so in your post, remember – “The fact is that real wages for mr and mrs average have been going backwards since the early 70s.”
“What sort of moron are you?”
I don’t know really - what sort are there. What sort are you. We may be the same sort of moron. How odd would that be?
“Do you really think the population will shrug their shoulders and accept that?”
No, I don’t think the population will accept it at all but like the employees of countries such as Argentina, Canada the US and those of the Eurozone, Australian employees will have little say as to the relocation of jobs to cheaper labor markets.
Decreasing pay and more importantly the increase in the flexibility of employees will continue until the market decides that competitiveness has returned to the western world. It has a long, long way to go.
“Curiously they hang up and never ring back. I wonder why?”
Way to go welcome stranger, you really will be making an impact on the globalization of the labor market with that one.
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I'll have a butter chicken, beef vindaloo, rice and 2 garlic naans".
.....confuses the hell out of them.
.....confuses the hell out of them.
That would be a bit like ordering a Hayes Creek Pie or Adelaide River Barra and chips in Port Augusta.
K
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...bit like when an Indian marketer phones up pretending to know all about Australia
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Keep em coming.
I have not laughed so hard since I heard the Qantas chief pilot say out loud strutting up the hallway in front of his office "That he was the King
it's good to be King!"
I have not laughed so hard since I heard the Qantas chief pilot say out loud strutting up the hallway in front of his office "That he was the King
it's good to be King!"