Qantas, try doing this... Out-sourced Jobs payback
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Qantas, try doing this... Out-sourced Jobs payback
QANTAS has defended its decision to sack about 350 Sydney workers and move their jobs offshore, while 60 St George Bank workers in Kogarah yesterday refused to continue training their Indian replacements.
"We care that Qantas is a proud Australian company contributing to national life and promoting Australia around the world," Qantas's chief executive, Geoff Dixon, told its annual general meeting yesterday.
"That is why I want to talk to you about concerns over our decision to outsource some Qantas jobs overseas, including up to 340 information technology jobs."
Mr Dixon said globalisation had been of great benefit to Australia and airlines should be at the forefront of the process.
"In some cases, yes, that means outsourcing jobs … We will not be doing this in order to lose Australian jobs. We will be doing it so that the company overall can preserve and expand them."
He said that Qantas had 37,000 staff, an increase of 17 per cent in six years.
Not all shareholders liked what he was saying. Jack Tilburn, a regular at Sydney annual meetings, said the decision was "rotten, horrible and lousy … . It is not on. I don't want the blood on my dividend cheque."
The NSW secretary of the Australian Services Union, Sally McManus, said the impact of job losses on information technology staff would be devastating. "Some of them have been there 20 years, they have in-depth skills on the Qantas systems, but the skills are not transferable," she said.
Staff at a St George Bank accounts office in Kogarah yesterday voted not to help train a team of IT workers from the Indian outsourcing company that is taking over their jobs.
One staff member, Cathy Samartzis, said it was like being asked to dig your own grave.
"Some people have been here a long time," she said. "They have mortgages and families and kids to feed. It makes me feel sick."
The staff, who were warned last month that they would lose their jobs early next year, were told on Tuesday that they would assist with training the new staff through a buddy system.
"We care that Qantas is a proud Australian company contributing to national life and promoting Australia around the world," Qantas's chief executive, Geoff Dixon, told its annual general meeting yesterday.
"That is why I want to talk to you about concerns over our decision to outsource some Qantas jobs overseas, including up to 340 information technology jobs."
Mr Dixon said globalisation had been of great benefit to Australia and airlines should be at the forefront of the process.
"In some cases, yes, that means outsourcing jobs … We will not be doing this in order to lose Australian jobs. We will be doing it so that the company overall can preserve and expand them."
He said that Qantas had 37,000 staff, an increase of 17 per cent in six years.
Not all shareholders liked what he was saying. Jack Tilburn, a regular at Sydney annual meetings, said the decision was "rotten, horrible and lousy … . It is not on. I don't want the blood on my dividend cheque."
The NSW secretary of the Australian Services Union, Sally McManus, said the impact of job losses on information technology staff would be devastating. "Some of them have been there 20 years, they have in-depth skills on the Qantas systems, but the skills are not transferable," she said.
Staff at a St George Bank accounts office in Kogarah yesterday voted not to help train a team of IT workers from the Indian outsourcing company that is taking over their jobs.
One staff member, Cathy Samartzis, said it was like being asked to dig your own grave.
"Some people have been here a long time," she said. "They have mortgages and families and kids to feed. It makes me feel sick."
The staff, who were warned last month that they would lose their jobs early next year, were told on Tuesday that they would assist with training the new staff through a buddy system.
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i wonder when all these Indian workers will wake up and realise their counterparts in Oz, doing the same job, are earning 20 x their wages? we should be sending the unions over to india!
sadly a mass strike in India over wages will cripple every other country but india
sadly a mass strike in India over wages will cripple every other country but india
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When outsourcing goes t*t's up.
The best one is the rumour that one major telecom company was stupid enough to completely outsource all of their major call centres to India only to find themselves held to ransom by some very crafty businessmen. 
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I wonder if GD has tried to use Dell or Microsoft support of late....
or had an annoying phone call in the middle of dinner to inquire about a change of his phone carrier.....
The person on the other end is more likely than not to be in India.
I have nothing against them, nor is it their fault many Western countires are indirectly employing them.
However, the strong accents and cultural differences are going to result in more trouble than it's worth for QF.
The jobs being cut at QF are described as IT.
How long before QF also cut their call centre people?.
Delta, US Air and others have gone this way. Nothing more frustrating than trying to change a US domestic ticket over the phone with someone sitting in Bangalore!.
or had an annoying phone call in the middle of dinner to inquire about a change of his phone carrier.....
The person on the other end is more likely than not to be in India.
I have nothing against them, nor is it their fault many Western countires are indirectly employing them.
However, the strong accents and cultural differences are going to result in more trouble than it's worth for QF.
The jobs being cut at QF are described as IT.
How long before QF also cut their call centre people?.
Delta, US Air and others have gone this way. Nothing more frustrating than trying to change a US domestic ticket over the phone with someone sitting in Bangalore!.
Qantas will spend big money and make some Indians velly velly rich. Then about five years from now they will realise that they have been got at, and start the long and painful process of bringing it in house again.
Of course by then the guilty parties will have decamped much wealthier as a result. I.T. is regarded as a component of their strategic advantage by most smart companies - too important to not be under the direct control of the company because your I.T. plan has to dovetail with your strategic business plan.
All will go swimmingly well for about three years in my experience, during which time the Indian outsourcing company will aggressively encourage Qantas to divest itself of as many I.T. workers as possible, especially anyone with high level design skills. It's called an organisational lobotomy - no one with any brains or I.T. smarts will be left to question the wisdom of the decison or the quality of the goods provided.
At some point after that, one of QF's competitors will unviel a stunning new I.T. platform and website that gives them an edge in the market - allowing customers to preorder music for their Ipods to go with their in flight meals or whatever - you know what I mean.
QF says "Hey I want one too", the outsourcer just stares at them and then takes out a calculator. Qantas now realises that it cannot respond to the marketing challenge posed by their competitors superior I.T. systems, but its too late. Of course they could then go to Accenture, but I think their charges are so big that only governments and Telstra can afford them. So then you appoint a new chief information officer and they have to use a crowbar for the next three years to try and get control of their I.T. strategy back from the outsourcer and the numerous consultants that will by then be involved.
Of course by then the guilty parties will have decamped much wealthier as a result. I.T. is regarded as a component of their strategic advantage by most smart companies - too important to not be under the direct control of the company because your I.T. plan has to dovetail with your strategic business plan.
All will go swimmingly well for about three years in my experience, during which time the Indian outsourcing company will aggressively encourage Qantas to divest itself of as many I.T. workers as possible, especially anyone with high level design skills. It's called an organisational lobotomy - no one with any brains or I.T. smarts will be left to question the wisdom of the decison or the quality of the goods provided.
At some point after that, one of QF's competitors will unviel a stunning new I.T. platform and website that gives them an edge in the market - allowing customers to preorder music for their Ipods to go with their in flight meals or whatever - you know what I mean.
QF says "Hey I want one too", the outsourcer just stares at them and then takes out a calculator. Qantas now realises that it cannot respond to the marketing challenge posed by their competitors superior I.T. systems, but its too late. Of course they could then go to Accenture, but I think their charges are so big that only governments and Telstra can afford them. So then you appoint a new chief information officer and they have to use a crowbar for the next three years to try and get control of their I.T. strategy back from the outsourcer and the numerous consultants that will by then be involved.
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Quite proud that my employer decided some years ago that with everyone else sending jobs to other climes, we could get a competitive advantage by not doing so.
We've just recorded record sales...
It's not just how it looks to your customers. Once back-office jobs cross the cultural/language rubicon... try getting on the blower to sort a problem out.
Used to be: "Listen, Phil, would you mind just sorting this thronomister lock-nut problem out when you get a sec? One fell off a wing over Five Dock the other day - scared the cr@p out of some bloke - so we need all the maint records for the Boebus A797-500s for the last three years checked." "No worries, is that left or right thronomisters you want, and do you want the results comma-delimited or in a Word doc? I recall we had a similar problem on the -400s a few years back."
Now it's a three-hour conf call to describe what a thronomister is, what part the lock-nut plays and how to download the records and beam them over...
And when they do arrive, it'll be the records for the 797-200s...
We've just recorded record sales...
It's not just how it looks to your customers. Once back-office jobs cross the cultural/language rubicon... try getting on the blower to sort a problem out.
Used to be: "Listen, Phil, would you mind just sorting this thronomister lock-nut problem out when you get a sec? One fell off a wing over Five Dock the other day - scared the cr@p out of some bloke - so we need all the maint records for the Boebus A797-500s for the last three years checked." "No worries, is that left or right thronomisters you want, and do you want the results comma-delimited or in a Word doc? I recall we had a similar problem on the -400s a few years back."
Now it's a three-hour conf call to describe what a thronomister is, what part the lock-nut plays and how to download the records and beam them over...
And when they do arrive, it'll be the records for the 797-200s...
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Recently had dealings ( not at all pleasant ) with a telco that uses indian call centres, suffice to say I will never use them again no matter how much cheaper they are, and I will make sure everyone I talk to hears about it.
The pittance of a saving was'nt worth anywhere near the rise in blood pressure.
The pittance of a saving was'nt worth anywhere near the rise in blood pressure.
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What about the Indian contractors subcontracting to China? It's happening now folks.
Save a fistfull of cash for your kids and teach them about the stockmarket because it is clear that our government places no importance on Aussie jobs and cares only about investor return!
And what about this load of crap:
What a guy! Thanks Geoff, We're all feeling so much cooler now that the spotlight and crosshairs have passed. For another week anyway!
Too bad that trough is so small.............
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzz zz
Save a fistfull of cash for your kids and teach them about the stockmarket because it is clear that our government places no importance on Aussie jobs and cares only about investor return!
And what about this load of crap:
"In some cases, yes, that means outsourcing jobs … We will not be doing this in order to lose Australian jobs. We will be doing it so that the company overall can preserve and expand them."
Too bad that trough is so small.............
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzz zz
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Indian Technical Publications for QANTAS
Hi all
Just a quick note coming from an IT engineering job at an Australian airline (resigned two years ago)
Technical Publications for Aircraft Engineers naturally come from Boeing Airbus etc. The publications are updated when required usually on a fortnightly basis on all types of Aircraft parts, not all of the technical publications are updated only when an update is required such as a new wing part etc.
The stringent policy CASA has place on Technical Publication are quite amazing. If a new publication is listed it must be updated ASAP in a certain time frame. The old CD or DVD must be destroyed (and stored) and new CD must be placed in a secure filing cabinet and recorded when it was installed, by whom, what was updated etc (Much more to it, but you get the drift)
I hope that Qantas managers has really thought this one out as Technical Publication are the bible to Aircraft engineers and must be kept up-to-date. Who will be overseeing that publications are updated in India, CASA (I don’t think so).
I feel that if a third party Indian company or whoever understands the importance and implications to if Technical Publications are not up-to-date.
You come to your own conclusion.
Just a quick note coming from an IT engineering job at an Australian airline (resigned two years ago)
Technical Publications for Aircraft Engineers naturally come from Boeing Airbus etc. The publications are updated when required usually on a fortnightly basis on all types of Aircraft parts, not all of the technical publications are updated only when an update is required such as a new wing part etc.
The stringent policy CASA has place on Technical Publication are quite amazing. If a new publication is listed it must be updated ASAP in a certain time frame. The old CD or DVD must be destroyed (and stored) and new CD must be placed in a secure filing cabinet and recorded when it was installed, by whom, what was updated etc (Much more to it, but you get the drift)
I hope that Qantas managers has really thought this one out as Technical Publication are the bible to Aircraft engineers and must be kept up-to-date. Who will be overseeing that publications are updated in India, CASA (I don’t think so).
I feel that if a third party Indian company or whoever understands the importance and implications to if Technical Publications are not up-to-date.
You come to your own conclusion.
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Lack of training and Information
Rang Motorola about a phone that would work in Japan.
An Indian voice tells me that a tri band will do the trick and then argues with me when i tell him it wont.
Hewlett Packard produces great printers..rang them for a little help regarding establishing a connection via a computer that I have on a LAN.
The bloke I spoke to was,I am sure,the first blokes cousin.He told me HP didnt make that printer any more and he couldnt provide any assistance.
I had just bought the printer that afternoon.
Went back to the store...told the shop assistant ...he laughed saying that it was a common occurrence.He told me what I had to do.
Sent both Motorola and HP emails regarding their unhelpful help centres.
That was 8 months ago...do you think I will get a reply?
Maybe QF will outsource their customer care centre next.
It would be a real treat having a conversation with one of those guys on a wet Saturday afternoon
An Indian voice tells me that a tri band will do the trick and then argues with me when i tell him it wont.
Hewlett Packard produces great printers..rang them for a little help regarding establishing a connection via a computer that I have on a LAN.
The bloke I spoke to was,I am sure,the first blokes cousin.He told me HP didnt make that printer any more and he couldnt provide any assistance.
I had just bought the printer that afternoon.
Went back to the store...told the shop assistant ...he laughed saying that it was a common occurrence.He told me what I had to do.
Sent both Motorola and HP emails regarding their unhelpful help centres.
That was 8 months ago...do you think I will get a reply?
Maybe QF will outsource their customer care centre next.
It would be a real treat having a conversation with one of those guys on a wet Saturday afternoon
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How many of you have QF (silly you), Rio, BHP, Coles, Telstra (silly you) or any other shares? How many of you would be really annoyed if you got no dividends? The general public puts the pressure on the companies to make money and lots of it, so the CEO will use any short term measures to make sure they meet this commitment for the next reporting period. Hence, GD will send jobs off shore for the short term financial (on paper) gain. He will get paid a nice bonus at the end of the year and be gone by the time the problems start to raise their head.
Have to admire the St George staff that when faced with a similar situation and a requirement to train the new indian staff refused to conduct the training.
At least their union is prepared to stand up and cause a fuss and fight to keep the jobs in australia.
Have to admire the St George staff that when faced with a similar situation and a requirement to train the new indian staff refused to conduct the training.
At least their union is prepared to stand up and cause a fuss and fight to keep the jobs in australia.
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At least their union is prepared to stand up and cause a fuss and fight to keep the jobs in australia.
bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzz
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They actually WANT their lives and the lives of their children to be reduced to being nothing more than a means of production who's value is based on how little they will work for.
It's called FLEXIBILITY
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Will sir be purchasing the vaseline this evening or not?
Sorry , can't afford it.
Not since JetStar took over, and havn't they given us all so much choice ?Yeh ,in how many different ways in bending over ,for less and less..
Sorry , can't afford it.
Not since JetStar took over, and havn't they given us all so much choice ?Yeh ,in how many different ways in bending over ,for less and less..
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Some of you guys need a reality check.
You almost make me want to say, "go drive a taxi for a few months and get back to me." but I wont....
I earn equal to or more now than I did with my previous airline that collapsed 5 years ago. And I only average about 10hrs per month more than my previous airline 5 years ago. Well go figure!!
Lets see. 10 hours per month. Suits me fine. I love my job.
Go yer hardest now FIG JAMS coz I aint coming back to this stupid ignorant site anymore. FKUK, we are our own worst enemies. peace dudes
You almost make me want to say, "go drive a taxi for a few months and get back to me." but I wont....
I earn equal to or more now than I did with my previous airline that collapsed 5 years ago. And I only average about 10hrs per month more than my previous airline 5 years ago. Well go figure!!
Lets see. 10 hours per month. Suits me fine. I love my job.
Go yer hardest now FIG JAMS coz I aint coming back to this stupid ignorant site anymore. FKUK, we are our own worst enemies. peace dudes