Qantas At War
Nunc est bibendum
Blind freddy can make that work when you're paying peanuts.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: R1P
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To successfully spin off a low cost carrier (Jetstar) was a masterstroke,
No, unfortunately they have not "spun" off anything. J*Asia is bleeding Qantas for millions every month. J*domestic is underpinned by Q domestic and could not survive on it's own. J* Int. is still an unknown, but will do little other be used to drive down wages and conditions and line the pockets of management in bonus payments. Then probably morphed back to into Q as AO was. All part of the "Howard" workplace legislation. This whole J* crap is basically the overrated ego adventure of an angry, unhappy, tragic personality. He will do anything to ensure the success of his J* manifested ego, without regard to the destruction of Qantas Mainline. Nothing to do with masterstrokes, viability or survival of the Qantas brand or product.
Yes, costs and efficiencies had to be improved, but if our talented Management had invested the billions of $ and energy wasted on J* into upgrading and improving Qantas Mainline, in my opinion, we would be making just as much profit if not more. There would be ongoing carreer progression in flight and cabin crew, plus improved training and maintained quality in engineering. The whole scenario is short term, cheapening the product, missleading shareholders, smoke & mirrors accounting and quick bonus driven greed by our talented management. James Strong sold all the assets, now Dixon is selling our most valuable asset left, all the loyal employees. Thank you.
Yes, costs and efficiencies had to be improved, but if our talented Management had invested the billions of $ and energy wasted on J* into upgrading and improving Qantas Mainline, in my opinion, we would be making just as much profit if not more. There would be ongoing carreer progression in flight and cabin crew, plus improved training and maintained quality in engineering. The whole scenario is short term, cheapening the product, missleading shareholders, smoke & mirrors accounting and quick bonus driven greed by our talented management. James Strong sold all the assets, now Dixon is selling our most valuable asset left, all the loyal employees. Thank you.
Exept BA and KLM didn't try the 'same thing'. Both of those airlines competed head to head with their respective LCC on the same routes.
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aircraft,
Firstly,you did not answer my question regarding J* Asia .If The QF management is so good then J* Asia should have been a huge success instead of a drain on our resources .Imagine our profit if we did not have to prop up that management failure.
Secondly,how much of J* infrastructure is actually QF's and not to mention consumables.If J* had to stand on it's own ,in other words if it was a stand alone carrier not affiliated with QF I wonder how much profit it would be making.
Lastly if Darth was running your business you might be either looking for another job because you have just been outsourced or your conditions so reduced your opinion of Darth also reduced
Firstly,you did not answer my question regarding J* Asia .If The QF management is so good then J* Asia should have been a huge success instead of a drain on our resources .Imagine our profit if we did not have to prop up that management failure.
Secondly,how much of J* infrastructure is actually QF's and not to mention consumables.If J* had to stand on it's own ,in other words if it was a stand alone carrier not affiliated with QF I wonder how much profit it would be making.
Lastly if Darth was running your business you might be either looking for another job because you have just been outsourced or your conditions so reduced your opinion of Darth also reduced
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: n.s.w
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cunningham
What pilot shortage, or impending pilot shortage. You would have to be living under a mushroom to think there is a pilot shortage, or are you just trying to convince yourself.
lowerlobe,
What is Jetstar Asia? Please forgive my ignorance and fill me in. When will they start operating, what routes, what aircraft, etc.
radiation junkie,
You say "J*domestic is underpinned by Q domestic and could not survive on it's own". That statement cannot possibly be true when J*domestic has 30-40% lower costs than Qantas domestic.
You seem to be attributing all Qantas IR woes to WorkChoices.
The campaign to restore Qantas viability began long before WorkChoices came in. In fact, if WorkChoices had been around 3 years ago, GD may not have opted to go via the Jetstar route to reduce the cost of his workforce - he could have just sacked ("for operational reasons") all those staff that refused to take a pay cut.
WorkChoices will make Australia more internationally competitive and will lower unemployment in Australia. It will reduce the wages of some but only the lazy need fear for their job security. Compensating for the reduced wages are other, less tangible benefits.
You also say that "if the money hadn't been wasted on J* but reinvested in Qantas", then Qantas would have been "just as profitable, if not more so".
You are wrong and do not appreciate just how much revenue is required to keep a full service operation like Qantas profitable. Where would that revenue have come from, given that some other LCC(s) would have started up had Jetstar not done so?
What is Jetstar Asia? Please forgive my ignorance and fill me in. When will they start operating, what routes, what aircraft, etc.
radiation junkie,
You say "J*domestic is underpinned by Q domestic and could not survive on it's own". That statement cannot possibly be true when J*domestic has 30-40% lower costs than Qantas domestic.
You seem to be attributing all Qantas IR woes to WorkChoices.
The campaign to restore Qantas viability began long before WorkChoices came in. In fact, if WorkChoices had been around 3 years ago, GD may not have opted to go via the Jetstar route to reduce the cost of his workforce - he could have just sacked ("for operational reasons") all those staff that refused to take a pay cut.
WorkChoices will make Australia more internationally competitive and will lower unemployment in Australia. It will reduce the wages of some but only the lazy need fear for their job security. Compensating for the reduced wages are other, less tangible benefits.
You also say that "if the money hadn't been wasted on J* but reinvested in Qantas", then Qantas would have been "just as profitable, if not more so".
You are wrong and do not appreciate just how much revenue is required to keep a full service operation like Qantas profitable. Where would that revenue have come from, given that some other LCC(s) would have started up had Jetstar not done so?
Nunc est bibendum
Originally Posted by aircraft
Regardless of how you try to dress it up....
Originally Posted by aircraft
To successfully spin off a low cost carrier (Jetstar) was a masterstroke, given the disastrous results met by KLM and British Airways (?) when they tried the same thing.
If you're going to 'play' with the adults then at least try and keep up!
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: hotel rooms
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Company spy,
My apologies, I didn't make myself clear in my post. I made this statement regarding the pilot shortage with the tongue thrusted firmly into the cheek.
I get a little tired too of pilots constantly bantering in groups. "They won't screw us too much because there is going to be a pilot shortage and the airlines will be desperate for drivers, they will need us" I do not believe for a second this will happen. I actually concur with your earlier statments on this thread.
My apologies, I didn't make myself clear in my post. I made this statement regarding the pilot shortage with the tongue thrusted firmly into the cheek.
I get a little tired too of pilots constantly bantering in groups. "They won't screw us too much because there is going to be a pilot shortage and the airlines will be desperate for drivers, they will need us" I do not believe for a second this will happen. I actually concur with your earlier statments on this thread.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QF is in a relatively strong position at the moment for one reason only... the collapse of AN. Were it not for that event, I believe it may have been QF we refer to in the past tense.
It is in spite of current management that the rat is still in existence.
Picture this..Ansett, Virgin Blue and Qantas still battling it out today. Now factor in these incredibly stupid decisions made by Dixon and co. in the last couple of years. All of them cost millions;
: The upgrade of the classics( an obsolete fleet of six a/c)
: The creation of Australian Airlines, only to dump it 3 years later
: The A330 floor fiasco
: The creation of J*Asia... big loss maker
Anyone think of anything else? I think you get the picture.
Now members of Dixon's fanclub like Aircraft don't even know what J*Asia is? Funny how his admirers usually work in another company or industry altogether. Those that actually work in the place know where it's headed, while his cheerleaders here and in the media, just can't seem to notice that the king is not wearing any clothes!
It is in spite of current management that the rat is still in existence.
Picture this..Ansett, Virgin Blue and Qantas still battling it out today. Now factor in these incredibly stupid decisions made by Dixon and co. in the last couple of years. All of them cost millions;
: The upgrade of the classics( an obsolete fleet of six a/c)
: The creation of Australian Airlines, only to dump it 3 years later
: The A330 floor fiasco
: The creation of J*Asia... big loss maker
Anyone think of anything else? I think you get the picture.
Now members of Dixon's fanclub like Aircraft don't even know what J*Asia is? Funny how his admirers usually work in another company or industry altogether. Those that actually work in the place know where it's headed, while his cheerleaders here and in the media, just can't seem to notice that the king is not wearing any clothes!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: feet on the ground
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
more cost cutting
BA, Qantas lay off Don Muang staff
Two major carriers, British Airways and Qantas, plan to lay off all 60 employees at Bangkok's Don Muang airport to cut operating costs.
Two major carriers, British Airways and Qantas, plan to lay off all 60 employees at Bangkok's Don Muang airport to cut operating costs.
What is Jetstar Asia? Please forgive my ignorance and fill me in. When will they start operating, what routes, what aircraft, etc.
Reeltime
While I agree with the thrust of your argument and that QF certainly benefited from the collapse of AN, it is infact DJ that had the greatest benefit from their collapse. There were even rumours (unsubstantiated) at the time that if AN didn’t collapse when they did DJ would have run out of cash about two weeks later. Certainly QF had much deeper pockets than AN or DJ and if there was going to be a three way struggle for market supremacy, I’m pretty sure QF would have been the ultimate winner. Whether they would have made any money over that time is anyone’s guess though. I suspect not.
aircraft
You are way out of your depth in this discussion sunshine that you are making yourself look stupid. If is quite obvious from your posts that you aren’t even associated with this industry or even qualified to talk about economic/business matters. I suggest you only open your mouth when you know what you are talking about. Some of us here including myself, have other qualifications outside of aviation which makes us more than qualified and competent to discus what is going on in our industry.
While I agree with the thrust of your argument and that QF certainly benefited from the collapse of AN, it is infact DJ that had the greatest benefit from their collapse. There were even rumours (unsubstantiated) at the time that if AN didn’t collapse when they did DJ would have run out of cash about two weeks later. Certainly QF had much deeper pockets than AN or DJ and if there was going to be a three way struggle for market supremacy, I’m pretty sure QF would have been the ultimate winner. Whether they would have made any money over that time is anyone’s guess though. I suspect not.
aircraft
You are way out of your depth in this discussion sunshine that you are making yourself look stupid. If is quite obvious from your posts that you aren’t even associated with this industry or even qualified to talk about economic/business matters. I suggest you only open your mouth when you know what you are talking about. Some of us here including myself, have other qualifications outside of aviation which makes us more than qualified and competent to discus what is going on in our industry.
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aircraft,
If you don't know about J* Asia then you don't work in this industry.Suffice it to say that it has been about as successfull as the charge of the Light Brigade and all of it was the idea of your mate Darth.
If you don't know about J* Asia then you don't work in this industry.Suffice it to say that it has been about as successfull as the charge of the Light Brigade and all of it was the idea of your mate Darth.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aircraft - age 22 (says it all)
I remember when I was 22 I think I had a similiar attitude. I think aircraft needs to spend at least 5 years working in the real world getting bent over and shafted.
KLM?????
Were you not still in year 9 at school when these ventures were experimented with????
I remember when I was 22 I think I had a similiar attitude. I think aircraft needs to spend at least 5 years working in the real world getting bent over and shafted.
KLM?????
Were you not still in year 9 at school when these ventures were experimented with????
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: R1P
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last reply to Aircraft
I think previous posts have clarified things already, but....
Aircraft:"You say "J*domestic is underpinned by Q domestic and could not survive on it's own". That statement cannot possibly be true when J*domestic has 30-40% lower costs than Qantas domestic."
Answer:Creative accounting, eg. actual cost of turning a J*plane around...$2500. Amount charged to J*operation costs... $1500. Who pays the rest, Q mainline.
Aircraft:"The campaign to restore Qantas viability began long before WorkChoices came in"
Answer: Yes, but GD and Howard have been bed buddies for years and the whole J* operation was planned and based on AWA's coming in. As was AO.
Actually, I am wasting my time here answering "aircraft". Goodbye and Thank you.
Aircraft:"You say "J*domestic is underpinned by Q domestic and could not survive on it's own". That statement cannot possibly be true when J*domestic has 30-40% lower costs than Qantas domestic."
Answer:Creative accounting, eg. actual cost of turning a J*plane around...$2500. Amount charged to J*operation costs... $1500. Who pays the rest, Q mainline.
Aircraft:"The campaign to restore Qantas viability began long before WorkChoices came in"
Answer: Yes, but GD and Howard have been bed buddies for years and the whole J* operation was planned and based on AWA's coming in. As was AO.
Actually, I am wasting my time here answering "aircraft". Goodbye and Thank you.
. I think you all got your wish and he's gone now 
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's all making us laugh but with all of his experience in the industry and understanding of the situation he is probably on the board...
I can just imagine him asking Darth after the next board meeting "Look mate I was alseep for a while did we start an airline in Asia and if so how is it doing?"
I can just imagine him asking Darth after the next board meeting "Look mate I was alseep for a while did we start an airline in Asia and if so how is it doing?"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Aircraft is obviously no businessman.
If you sell a product at little or no profit margin you will get good market share. But you will go broke.
Eg, The local bottle shop buys a slab of VB for $23 wholesale and sells it for $24. I'll buy from him ,but he ain't going to stay in business very long, unless he's got a parent company such as Woolworths copping the loss purely to gain market share and pressure their competitors.
In the case of J* they have a parent company paying a lot of their costs and overheads. The small profit is a paper profit. Someone's paying by losing money and that someone is Qantas.
Here endeth the lesson my son.
If you sell a product at little or no profit margin you will get good market share. But you will go broke.
Eg, The local bottle shop buys a slab of VB for $23 wholesale and sells it for $24. I'll buy from him ,but he ain't going to stay in business very long, unless he's got a parent company such as Woolworths copping the loss purely to gain market share and pressure their competitors.
In the case of J* they have a parent company paying a lot of their costs and overheads. The small profit is a paper profit. Someone's paying by losing money and that someone is Qantas.
Here endeth the lesson my son.