Qantas Capt declines moot long haul duty time extension call?
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Qantas Capt declines moot long haul duty time extension call?
A Qantas Capt. has been stood down in LAX for not extending beyond the maximum duty hours.
Any one have an update?
Looks like the game is becoming more serious.
Fleet Manager apparently made the call.
Any one have an update?
Looks like the game is becoming more serious.
Fleet Manager apparently made the call.
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Sad But True
A couple of CC mates were on this crew.
Aircraft diverted to HNL due medical emergency.
Aircraft ended up back in LAX where the Skipper was stood down while in contact with the company on his mobile.
The company will bend and break the rules to suit.Fatigue and or safety are not an issue for them.
Flights to Europe now have 3 flight deck not 4 as was normal until recently.
Can't remember the last time a Captain was stood down.
Aircraft diverted to HNL due medical emergency.
Aircraft ended up back in LAX where the Skipper was stood down while in contact with the company on his mobile.
The company will bend and break the rules to suit.Fatigue and or safety are not an issue for them.
Flights to Europe now have 3 flight deck not 4 as was normal until recently.
Can't remember the last time a Captain was stood down.
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Surfside, out of BKK during the northern summer flights to Europe can be completed in 3 pilots duty times, nothing has changed there.
Are you saying the flight left LAX, diverted into HNL then returned to LAX?
Are you saying the flight left LAX, diverted into HNL then returned to LAX?
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So the aircraft took off from LAX, then landed in HNL. Dumped off the med case and then went back to LAX and the Capt was stood down for not going down to Syd after that??
Is this right or have i messed it up?
Now that would be a very long duty!!
Is this right or have i messed it up?
Now that would be a very long duty!!
Nunc est bibendum
Events as I understand them. All second hand so may not be 100% accurate.
Aircraft was LAX-AKL and diverted to HNL with a punter with a medical issue. I'm not sure where they were when they diverted. From my understanding of events from there, crew offered to get the aircraft to Nadi but for whatever reason couldn't get it to destination. At some stage a decision was made (I assume the company OK'd it) to take the aircraft back to LAX. Rumour mill suggests that by time it all got sorted it was 12 hours LAX-HNL-LAX.
Beyond that, I don't know if captain/ crew has been stood down or not. I do know that there was some ringing around in LAX looking for crew....no one tried me though!?!?!
I'm not 100% sure who the crew was but if they pulled the pin on fatigue issues they have my full support.
On a seperate note I said to one of the 'stars' in May that I felt that we were approaching a time where disengagement was going to start impacting on what a crew felt they could push through- therefore start costing in a big way. Up until then I felt that the crew were still engaged with the operation (if not the company) to a degree that we would still go the extra mile and give the extension the benefit of the doubt. I wonder if that time is now here and crew are no longer prepared to give the same consideration.
Interesting times.
Aircraft was LAX-AKL and diverted to HNL with a punter with a medical issue. I'm not sure where they were when they diverted. From my understanding of events from there, crew offered to get the aircraft to Nadi but for whatever reason couldn't get it to destination. At some stage a decision was made (I assume the company OK'd it) to take the aircraft back to LAX. Rumour mill suggests that by time it all got sorted it was 12 hours LAX-HNL-LAX.
Beyond that, I don't know if captain/ crew has been stood down or not. I do know that there was some ringing around in LAX looking for crew....no one tried me though!?!?!
I'm not 100% sure who the crew was but if they pulled the pin on fatigue issues they have my full support.On a seperate note I said to one of the 'stars' in May that I felt that we were approaching a time where disengagement was going to start impacting on what a crew felt they could push through- therefore start costing in a big way. Up until then I felt that the crew were still engaged with the operation (if not the company) to a degree that we would still go the extra mile and give the extension the benefit of the doubt. I wonder if that time is now here and crew are no longer prepared to give the same consideration.
Interesting times.
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A 4 man crew can go to 16 hours and then extend to 20 maximum if they agree to it. At no stage was anyone being forced to go beyond 20 hours, so nothing untoward here. The aircraft returned to LAX and departed for AKL straight away with a fresh crew.
My mail is that it was the 2nd major LAX disruption in 2 days as the cabin crew got off the aircraft in NY due to a diversion and delay on the way inbound.
As for 3 man operations from BKK up to LHR and return, this is normal for this time of year and has been going on for longer than I have been on the 400. Keep to the facts people, chinese whispers won't do anyone any good.
My mail is that it was the 2nd major LAX disruption in 2 days as the cabin crew got off the aircraft in NY due to a diversion and delay on the way inbound.
As for 3 man operations from BKK up to LHR and return, this is normal for this time of year and has been going on for longer than I have been on the 400. Keep to the facts people, chinese whispers won't do anyone any good.
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The good Graces of...
The company have lived for years on the good graces of its crews.As KEG so eloquently explained those days appear to be drawing to an end.
It has been an intersting month for QF in the US.
1.Aircraft into blast fence in JFK.
2.Mechanical into Boston.Crew elect not to extend.
3.Diversion into HNL.Crew elect not ot extend.
4.Diversions into BNE from LAX due fog...22hrs of duty
Get the Message Dixon...you cant run an airline with disengaged pilots.
It has been an intersting month for QF in the US.
1.Aircraft into blast fence in JFK.
2.Mechanical into Boston.Crew elect not to extend.
3.Diversion into HNL.Crew elect not ot extend.
4.Diversions into BNE from LAX due fog...22hrs of duty
Get the Message Dixon...you cant run an airline with disengaged pilots.
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Now as much as I despise Qantas (because they are too rigid with their frequent flyer program and I can't use the points when I want to), you Qantas pilots should take a tip from me. As a manager with good management skills, I can see that you people will play right into Qantas managements hands with stunts like not extending your duty, whether fatigued or not. I can fully understand that you have a legal obligation not to fly when fatigued but do you really think you will be believed? They'll screw you when your EBA comes up and bring in Jetstar on a wetlease. Be careful and good luck!
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I think QANTAS would be treading a dangerous line to assume any refusal of a crew to extend crew duty was based on pseudo industrial action. I personally doubt that had anything to do with it.
I'm guessing that if someone did stand the captain down, they have no idea of how seriously (in my experience) aircrew consider the "to extend or not to extend" decision.
Management talk about "if you make a decision based on safety you have our full support" ..
Typically though when that decision is made, you get done like a dinner. If not to your face then behind your back.
I'm guessing that if someone did stand the captain down, they have no idea of how seriously (in my experience) aircrew consider the "to extend or not to extend" decision.
Management talk about "if you make a decision based on safety you have our full support" ..
Typically though when that decision is made, you get done like a dinner. If not to your face then behind your back.
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hmm,
SF, whilst I see where you are coming from, I'd hardly call it a stunt - in fact doing so is (to me anyway) professionally insulting. If we don't extend it gets called a stunt, but if we do, and bend something, we get no thanks and have other unpleasant consequenses.
In any event, the full picture of this bonny adventure is yet to be revealed.
Oh, and any Airline manager harassing a pilot over refusal to extend his tour of duty, has the potential to place the said Airline's Air Operators Certificate at risk. (or so CASA re-assured me in a nice letter they once sent me.)
Rgds
SF, whilst I see where you are coming from, I'd hardly call it a stunt - in fact doing so is (to me anyway) professionally insulting. If we don't extend it gets called a stunt, but if we do, and bend something, we get no thanks and have other unpleasant consequenses.
In any event, the full picture of this bonny adventure is yet to be revealed.
Oh, and any Airline manager harassing a pilot over refusal to extend his tour of duty, has the potential to place the said Airline's Air Operators Certificate at risk. (or so CASA re-assured me in a nice letter they once sent me.)
Rgds
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Sorry noip, no offence intended, just a poor choice of words on my part. But at least you can see where I'm coming from. I guess that to make a decision not to extend must place a lot of pressure on a pilot knowing the disruption that may occur. But being slf, I'd much rather know that I had a fully rested group up on the flight deck!
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Surely there must be more to it, I don't suspect that someone would be stood down from any airline for 'failing to extend'!
It is also impossible for an airline to prove fatigue one way or the other, so there is no way to argue it!!
I would have to commend any decision not to continue based on fatigue, sounds like a job well done to me.
It is also impossible for an airline to prove fatigue one way or the other, so there is no way to argue it!!
I would have to commend any decision not to continue based on fatigue, sounds like a job well done to me.
Stood down for not extending?? Sounds like a croc to me 
If the Capt was stood down (I wasn't there so I don't know), then it would have been for something else. I'm with Borg on this one.
If the Capt was stood down (I wasn't there so I don't know), then it would have been for something else. I'm with Borg on this one.
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For goodness sake there is no way ANYONE can be stood done for not extending.
The pilots simply cannot go beyond the LEGAL hours.
Cabin crew can vote and it has to be majority, and even then if you feel that you are fatigued you can walk off (as long as you don't mind a call from the visitors and months and months of harassment from QANTAS and intimidation)
Obviously some one did get stood down but not for NOT EXTENDING there has to be another reason.
The pilots simply cannot go beyond the LEGAL hours.
Cabin crew can vote and it has to be majority, and even then if you feel that you are fatigued you can walk off (as long as you don't mind a call from the visitors and months and months of harassment from QANTAS and intimidation)
Obviously some one did get stood down but not for NOT EXTENDING there has to be another reason.