Qantas Capt declines moot long haul duty time extension call?
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Keg
Thank you for that.
I have been musing over a comment for PPRuNers about how they "Name" threads.
Clearly PPruNers will want to do so to attract attention to their "news" or "comment", some are in the habit of sensationalising the title perhaps in order to set their agenda.
Overall I don't have too much of a problem with suchlike,
However in this case
Qantas Capt. Stood Down suggests all manner of innapropriate behaviour of the pilot and airline and the posts subsequently generated were reflect I suspect what the Thread starter may, and I only say may have intended or not.
This is unfair to the Capt and the airline in the light of the facts.
Another recent thread title was in the manner of Brand X Airliner Down at Woop Woop Airport suggesting that there had been a crash when it fact the thread was about an aircraft gone tech.
Just remember folks;
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
For every PPRuNer online there are usually around 8 guests.
We try to keep PPRuNe a tabloid free zone.
Please think through the thread title just a little bit would do before you hit the submit button.
Woomera can and do "edit" thread titles, we would rather not and it adds to the mod load. We can and will deal appropriately with serial offenders.
No biggie just take it easy.
Thank you for that.
I have been musing over a comment for PPRuNers about how they "Name" threads.
Clearly PPruNers will want to do so to attract attention to their "news" or "comment", some are in the habit of sensationalising the title perhaps in order to set their agenda.
Overall I don't have too much of a problem with suchlike,
However in this case
Qantas Capt. Stood Down suggests all manner of innapropriate behaviour of the pilot and airline and the posts subsequently generated were reflect I suspect what the Thread starter may, and I only say may have intended or not.
This is unfair to the Capt and the airline in the light of the facts.
Another recent thread title was in the manner of Brand X Airliner Down at Woop Woop Airport suggesting that there had been a crash when it fact the thread was about an aircraft gone tech.
Just remember folks;
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
For every PPRuNer online there are usually around 8 guests.
We try to keep PPRuNe a tabloid free zone.
Please think through the thread title just a little bit would do before you hit the submit button.
Woomera can and do "edit" thread titles, we would rather not and it adds to the mod load. We can and will deal appropriately with serial offenders.
No biggie just take it easy.
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Originally Posted by Keg
My understanding is that he wasn't.....he was just paxed back to sydney! 
Thread Starter
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Verbatum
I felt that I titled the thread appropriately.
These were the words used by the Captain when he finished the call on his mobile...."Well I have been stood down".This was said in the presence of the entire crew.
His sense of humour perhaps?
I apologize for restating what was heard.
It was not intended as a "beat up"but more of an indication of the pressure QF pilots were now under.
If "Woomerii" would rather I delete the whole thread I am more than happy to comply
MGF.
But I ask this:"Why was he paxed home and not the other members of the flight deck?"
These were the words used by the Captain when he finished the call on his mobile...."Well I have been stood down".This was said in the presence of the entire crew.
His sense of humour perhaps?
I apologize for restating what was heard.
It was not intended as a "beat up"but more of an indication of the pressure QF pilots were now under.
If "Woomerii" would rather I delete the whole thread I am more than happy to comply
MGF.
But I ask this:"Why was he paxed home and not the other members of the flight deck?"
Last edited by Machinegun Fellatio; 19th Jul 2006 at 06:38.
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Machinegun Fellatio
I take your point.
Maybe I didn't express my self well enough.
It was not aimed at you personally, but a genuine reflection on how we often get different "takes" on the same words.
Personally, after reading the post, it was clearish
to me that he and Flight Ops had come to an agreement that he/they should stand down from duty and Ops should get another crew.
But if you were looking for trouble
then you might put a different interpretation on it.
If nothing else the thread was useful for a discussion of the really difficult decisions command sometimes brings, it's why the experience and the bigger bucks. For me when the negative what ifs start to stack up against my experience the easier it is to say no, but as has been pointed out here, it's Johnny on the Spot. 20/20 Hindsight doesn't count.
I take your point.
Maybe I didn't express my self well enough.
the posts subsequently generated were reflect I suspect what the Thread starter may, and I only say may have intended or not.
Personally, after reading the post, it was clearish
to me that he and Flight Ops had come to an agreement that he/they should stand down from duty and Ops should get another crew.But if you were looking for trouble
then you might put a different interpretation on it. If nothing else the thread was useful for a discussion of the really difficult decisions command sometimes brings, it's why the experience and the bigger bucks. For me when the negative what ifs start to stack up against my experience the easier it is to say no, but as has been pointed out here, it's Johnny on the Spot. 20/20 Hindsight doesn't count.
Someone asked "when was the last time a QF Captain was stood down [over an extention issue]"
I remember having "the master" on the FD 10-12 years ago while he was paxing home after being stood down by his fleet manager.:
Of course the manager was in the wrong and matter cleared up by lawers, the Captain would have been liable if he allowed the operation to cotinue. It got interesting when said manager rang to get the Captain to come back to work "sorry, I can't talk to you, I have been stood down!" CLICK
Apparently this went on for some days [great holiday at home]
XX later went to another airline where he really shined
and is now "running" a "group" airline!
I remember having "the master" on the FD 10-12 years ago while he was paxing home after being stood down by his fleet manager.:
Of course the manager was in the wrong and matter cleared up by lawers, the Captain would have been liable if he allowed the operation to cotinue. It got interesting when said manager rang to get the Captain to come back to work "sorry, I can't talk to you, I have been stood down!" CLICK
Apparently this went on for some days [great holiday at home]
XX later went to another airline where he really shined
and is now "running" a "group" airline!
Too much information!
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Originally Posted by The_Cutest_of_Borg
As I suspected, a beat up. I am no fan of QF upper management but the mid-level guys can usually be relied upon to do the right thing in circumstances like this one.
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Hey Tankengine....
Don't remember any Captain being stood down but I do recall a certain FO being disciplined for gliding in an overseas country when he should have been operating a flight back to Oz
Now back to the topic....
Don't remember any Captain being stood down but I do recall a certain FO being disciplined for gliding in an overseas country when he should have been operating a flight back to Oz
Now back to the topic....
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Eagleman, I would suggest Tankengine is correct, at least the gist of it.
From memory they tried to stand him down whilst the aircraft was still in flight.
It was the closest I had ever seen AIPA get to taking some sort of sanction against the company and the backpedalling from management had to be seen to be believed.
From memory they tried to stand him down whilst the aircraft was still in flight.
It was the closest I had ever seen AIPA get to taking some sort of sanction against the company and the backpedalling from management had to be seen to be believed.
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Basic point was Tank named someone and claimed they had done something.
He was wrong on both counts.
They are the facts!
More important, we should be focused on now and the real now issue.
Are the fact correct in this case?
He was wrong on both counts.
They are the facts!
More important, we should be focused on now and the real now issue.
Are the fact correct in this case?
I think everyone may have missed the point that the Captain wouldn't have made the decision on his own - Operations Control would have had the final say on where the aircraft went.
IF the Captain has been stood down (unlikely) then I would hope that whoever was in Operations Control & had the final say has also been treated in a similar fashion...
As it stands, from what i have heard around the traps, it is most likely a case of ops managers being upset at things spiralling out of control, and actually having to try to use some 'man management skills' to get the situation back under control - skills which they appear not to have....
IF the Captain has been stood down (unlikely) then I would hope that whoever was in Operations Control & had the final say has also been treated in a similar fashion...
As it stands, from what i have heard around the traps, it is most likely a case of ops managers being upset at things spiralling out of control, and actually having to try to use some 'man management skills' to get the situation back under control - skills which they appear not to have....
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Eagleman,
Why don't you ask the master himself, he reckons it happened because he told me the story a while back and it matches what TCOB and TE has said.
I think he would know.
Why don't you ask the master himself, he reckons it happened because he told me the story a while back and it matches what TCOB and TE has said.
I think he would know.
Nunc est bibendum
Originally Posted by Eagleman
Are the fact correct in this case?
Other facts. This loss of a Captain paxing home resulted in a significant shortage of Captains in LA with multiple follow on disruptions. A number of other crews had their plans up-ended and the shortage took a few days to work through. Of course, it didn't help with the JFK flight diverting to Boston and ending up with about a 22 hour day- the last 2:40 spent taxiing around JFK trying to get to the gate!
So the facts remain that at a time when Captains were at a premium and significant disruptions were going on, one was paxed home...but wasn't 'stood down'!
Keg,
Thanks for getting this back on track with facts.
Eagleman,
don't be so quick to call me a bull****ter - YOU ARE WRONG!
I have personally spoken to said Captain of incident[s]of some years ago, initially on the actual day within 3 hours of him being stood down and then some weeks later and got the updated story. If I am wrong then he is a liar.
The DFO of the time was not involved with either phone call so got his info second hand from the other party - you decide who to believe on their reputations!
Speeeedy,
What a good idea, thanks.
Gliderboy,
Yeah, I still get "are you the guy that....", I reply that I don't know the guy
Actually he is back into it with an ASG29 ordered!!
Thanks for getting this back on track with facts.
Eagleman,
don't be so quick to call me a bull****ter - YOU ARE WRONG!
I have personally spoken to said Captain of incident[s]of some years ago, initially on the actual day within 3 hours of him being stood down and then some weeks later and got the updated story. If I am wrong then he is a liar.
The DFO of the time was not involved with either phone call so got his info second hand from the other party - you decide who to believe on their reputations!
Speeeedy,
What a good idea, thanks.
Gliderboy,
Yeah, I still get "are you the guy that....", I reply that I don't know the guy
Actually he is back into it with an ASG29 ordered!!