flight delayed 3 hrs while new FA flown in.
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flight delayed 3 hrs while new FA flown in.
is this usual procedure, a flight attendant on the flight from Syd to Wagga was incapable of working the return flight after a pax dies, of a heart attack, so the flight is delayed 3 hrs to fly down a replacement FA... this seams a little unusual to me...
i guess if the flight was a Dash 8, then i can understand...
The terminally ill woman was flying home when she had a heart attack about 9am (AEST) today, an ambulance spokeswoman said.
At the request of the woman's husband, with whom she was travelling, she was not revived.
"I believe it wasn't unexpected," the spokeswoman said.
"When the ambos got there they obviously found that she'd died and took her to Wagga Hospital for formal identification."
The incident greatly distressed the flight attendant, a Qantas spokesman said.
"... She could not operate the return flight, and we had to send another flight attendant from Sydney," the spokesman said.
The return service was delayed for three hours while the new crew member was flown up, he said.
AAP
At the request of the woman's husband, with whom she was travelling, she was not revived.
"I believe it wasn't unexpected," the spokeswoman said.
"When the ambos got there they obviously found that she'd died and took her to Wagga Hospital for formal identification."
The incident greatly distressed the flight attendant, a Qantas spokesman said.
"... She could not operate the return flight, and we had to send another flight attendant from Sydney," the spokesman said.
The return service was delayed for three hours while the new crew member was flown up, he said.
AAP
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Medical situations can be quite harrowing for cabin crew at the best of times. We have limited medical knowledge and resources. Obviously larger aircraft you are part of a team and have extra support by way of MedLink and defibrillators. Also on larger aircraft you are more likely to have a pax who is qualified (and willing!) to assist.
I have only ever had one situation I would class as serious (drug overdose) and the sense of helplessness (even though I was one of 5 FAs) was overwhelming. One does what one can but it never seems enough - given the limits of the environment we work in and our training.
A death on board would be even more traumatic for all concerned. Especially given this was seemingly a solo FA who probably had no back up in the cabin and no access to neither MedLink or a defibrillator.
I do not think this FA should be chastised in any way for his or her inability to operate the return sector. I do know of FAs who have done so after similiar events but we all deal with things differently. Remember FAs are supposed to be seen as in control of the cabin and such events make it hard for reasons stated above.
In answer to your question I would say the three hour delay to replace the crew member was MORE than normal given the circumstances. Even a larger aircraft may have had this prediciment if minimum crew could not have been maintained.
I have only ever had one situation I would class as serious (drug overdose) and the sense of helplessness (even though I was one of 5 FAs) was overwhelming. One does what one can but it never seems enough - given the limits of the environment we work in and our training.
A death on board would be even more traumatic for all concerned. Especially given this was seemingly a solo FA who probably had no back up in the cabin and no access to neither MedLink or a defibrillator.
I do not think this FA should be chastised in any way for his or her inability to operate the return sector. I do know of FAs who have done so after similiar events but we all deal with things differently. Remember FAs are supposed to be seen as in control of the cabin and such events make it hard for reasons stated above.
In answer to your question I would say the three hour delay to replace the crew member was MORE than normal given the circumstances. Even a larger aircraft may have had this prediciment if minimum crew could not have been maintained.
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I would imagine that sector is operated by an Eastern's Dash 8, so that would explain why mimimum crew could not be maintained.
I agree with Ditz, these incidents can greatly affect you, although you do the best you can at the time to deal with it. I have had some pretty intense ones (suspected heart attack, miscarriage, double pulmonary-embollism, 2 separate blocked catheter incidents) and then some less intense but confusing nonetheless (a lady with a 'goiter' that appeared on her arm immediately after take off
).
As a side note, and am open to correction here, but I thought under our duty of care we are required to attempt resuscitation - even if it is against the wishes of the family? Obviously we don't have the full details of this particular incident, but from reading the newspaper article
it appears that resus was not attempted?
Any thoughts?
Best wishes to the flight attendant involved, I am sure she did everything she could in the situation she was presented... I hope she is able to return to work soon
I agree with Ditz, these incidents can greatly affect you, although you do the best you can at the time to deal with it. I have had some pretty intense ones (suspected heart attack, miscarriage, double pulmonary-embollism, 2 separate blocked catheter incidents) and then some less intense but confusing nonetheless (a lady with a 'goiter' that appeared on her arm immediately after take off
).As a side note, and am open to correction here, but I thought under our duty of care we are required to attempt resuscitation - even if it is against the wishes of the family? Obviously we don't have the full details of this particular incident, but from reading the newspaper article
At the request of the woman's husband, with whom she was travelling, she was not revived.
Any thoughts?
Best wishes to the flight attendant involved, I am sure she did everything she could in the situation she was presented... I hope she is able to return to work soon
Bottums Up
Ultralights,
Unusual that it's not a common occurrence to have some one die onboard a commercial flight. Not unknown, but nonetheless not common.
Depending on an operator's Ops Manual, the flight might be capped and operated with reduced cabin crew but still at the ratio of 1:36, or part thereof.
I have no difficulty empathising with the F/A who decided they were not fit to perform their duties. I've not had the experience but doubt I'd feel too good afterwards.
Unusual that it's not a common occurrence to have some one die onboard a commercial flight. Not unknown, but nonetheless not common.
Depending on an operator's Ops Manual, the flight might be capped and operated with reduced cabin crew but still at the ratio of 1:36, or part thereof.
I have no difficulty empathising with the F/A who decided they were not fit to perform their duties. I've not had the experience but doubt I'd feel too good afterwards.
Evertonian
I don't think you'd want your only FA to operate in a distressed state, especially if you need them to be focussed in the event of another emergency. I think the right thing was done here.
Interesting point that the husband requested no revival. I imagine some nasty implications if other family members disagreed with his decision...
Interesting point that the husband requested no revival. I imagine some nasty implications if other family members disagreed with his decision...
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As a side note, and am open to correction here, but I thought under our duty of care we are required to attempt resuscitation - even if it is against the wishes of the family?
I take out $1M insurance every year in case of being sued for administering first aid
Doesnt anyone else?..Disco
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Ditzyboy, given that it wasn't a medical emergency, surely the distress in this case shouldn't have been so intense? 
Their call of course, and definately not a good idea to fly when you're shaken.
Husband is the next-of-kin, so its his call if the patient hasn't or is unable to communicate their wishes. Poor bastard. I imagine any arguing on an aircraft would become security issue more than a medical or legal one.
Noone is obligated to resuscitate anyone unless they're an on-duty medical professional.
Their call of course, and definately not a good idea to fly when you're shaken.Husband is the next-of-kin, so its his call if the patient hasn't or is unable to communicate their wishes. Poor bastard. I imagine any arguing on an aircraft would become security issue more than a medical or legal one.
Noone is obligated to resuscitate anyone unless they're an on-duty medical professional.
Last edited by *Lancer*; 18th Apr 2006 at 05:06.
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As someone who works with these type of medical emergencies on an almost daily basis the circumstances where resuscitation efforts may be withheld are;
_ an adult ( 18 years or over , where a "refusal of treatment" certificate has been completed for a current condition which most likely has caused the cardiac arrest.
Or
-A child ( < 18years ) where a court order is provided to the attending ambulance crew indicating that Cardio Pulmonary resuscitation is not to be commenced.
I believe these rules came about by legal precedent when a family situation became ugly in the wash up when a person, who happened to be a the major benefactor of the deceased's will, in the absence of other family members ,asked for the deceased not to be resuscitated.
That said this would not reflect in any way on the unfortunate crew member .
I sympathise with he or she. Such incidences are never pretty , even if death is expected. I am not surprised that he or she was unable to work the remaining sectors.
_ an adult ( 18 years or over , where a "refusal of treatment" certificate has been completed for a current condition which most likely has caused the cardiac arrest.
Or
-A child ( < 18years ) where a court order is provided to the attending ambulance crew indicating that Cardio Pulmonary resuscitation is not to be commenced.
I believe these rules came about by legal precedent when a family situation became ugly in the wash up when a person, who happened to be a the major benefactor of the deceased's will, in the absence of other family members ,asked for the deceased not to be resuscitated.
That said this would not reflect in any way on the unfortunate crew member .
I sympathise with he or she. Such incidences are never pretty , even if death is expected. I am not surprised that he or she was unable to work the remaining sectors.
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I would hope that Management at Eastern would have given, and will continue to give, this FA all the support they can muster and make every effort to get over what must been a very traumatic day. I am sure this is the case and cannot believe that anyone could be critical of, or even question, either the FA or EAL.
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Don't you believe it BAL. Bet they put pressure on her to crew the return flight. The FA manager is a cretin.
The only staff treated worse than there ground handlers are FAs and pilots.
The only staff treated worse than there ground handlers are FAs and pilots.
to see NFR on patients' notes is not uncommon - "not for resuscitation". It can be determined by the medical profession for any number of reasons.
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Disco_air, just as a matter of interest, nobody in Australia has ever been sued for administering first aid. It is highly unlikely and you are essentially untouchable; but I agree with anyone who says you *could* be sued.
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Cheers for that. I agree the chance is highly unlikely, but still there... and at $15/year its not really a big issue. The certifying authority (St. John) suggests it and is valid as long as my qualifications are current.
Think of a scenario. Perform life saving first aid on a casualty which ends up meaning some sort of permanent ailment. Who can someone blame? May not stand up in court, but may!
This insurance only covers me as a private citizen as well. Im covered under my emergency service when im working for them.
..Disco
Think of a scenario. Perform life saving first aid on a casualty which ends up meaning some sort of permanent ailment. Who can someone blame? May not stand up in court, but may!
This insurance only covers me as a private citizen as well. Im covered under my emergency service when im working for them.
..Disco
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I'll admit to being somewhat surprised that it isn't company policy to stand down the FA whenever this sort of event occurs.
I understand that it would be logistically difficult to take a whole cabin crew off-line if something terrible happened on a particular sector, however, for the protection of the staff-member(s), airline and ultimately the fare-paying pax on the next and subsequent sectors, would it not be prudent to stand-downs the member(s) until some sort evaluation of their fitness to continue working is completed?
For example:
- A train driver acquaintance recently had his third 'run down' incident over a thirty year career (none were his fault). Being his third such incident, the rail organisation forced him to take 6 weeks paid stress leave with compulsory counselling.
- A controller has an incident. Regardless of fault, the controller is suspended pending investigation. The cynics may suggest otherwise, however in this litigious society it protects everybody concerned (ie controller, company and airspace users).
I understand that it would be logistically difficult to take a whole cabin crew off-line if something terrible happened on a particular sector, however, for the protection of the staff-member(s), airline and ultimately the fare-paying pax on the next and subsequent sectors, would it not be prudent to stand-downs the member(s) until some sort evaluation of their fitness to continue working is completed?
For example:
- A train driver acquaintance recently had his third 'run down' incident over a thirty year career (none were his fault). Being his third such incident, the rail organisation forced him to take 6 weeks paid stress leave with compulsory counselling.
- A controller has an incident. Regardless of fault, the controller is suspended pending investigation. The cynics may suggest otherwise, however in this litigious society it protects everybody concerned (ie controller, company and airspace users).
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Jetstar had (read 'pressured') a cabin crew to turn the aircraft around ex-OOL after two cabin crew performed CPR on the inbound for around 40 minutes to have the pax pronounced DOA. Disgusting
Touloune -
Interesting comment about the EAL FA Manager. Having worked under her myself I always found her to be totally supportive and compassionate under such conditions. As 'ballsy' as she is in a business sense I can't imagine she would have acted any differently in this case.
*Lancer* -
You are fine to have someone die infront of you then carry on as normal? Caring when customers complain about seat allocation, meal preferences and that you didn't put enough ice in their drink?! Not easy after such an event I reckon. When push comes to shove many probably would cope. It is certainly not ideal or expected, however. YES! This event was a medical emergency, by the way!
Touloune -
Interesting comment about the EAL FA Manager. Having worked under her myself I always found her to be totally supportive and compassionate under such conditions. As 'ballsy' as she is in a business sense I can't imagine she would have acted any differently in this case.
*Lancer* -
You are fine to have someone die infront of you then carry on as normal? Caring when customers complain about seat allocation, meal preferences and that you didn't put enough ice in their drink?! Not easy after such an event I reckon. When push comes to shove many probably would cope. It is certainly not ideal or expected, however. YES! This event was a medical emergency, by the way!