flight delayed 3 hrs while new FA flown in.
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ditzyboy, you can't retort what I say and then agree with it: "many probably would cope". Yes, I think I would cope, but that's for the individual to determine. If you're not fit to fly, for any reason, then that's that! I'm not criticising the FA's decision, just suggesting that given first aid was not to be administered, there wasn't quite the life-and-death urgency in this particular case as the examples you had posted earlier.
I always thought a 'Medical emergency' implied that you require immediate emergency assistance?
I always thought a 'Medical emergency' implied that you require immediate emergency assistance?
Last edited by *Lancer*; 19th Apr 2006 at 12:45.
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Originally Posted by OperationsNormal
Wasnt there a simlar incident in Canberra recently with an Eastern or Sunstate crew ?
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As an Air Ambulance Aircrewman, it is my understanding from legal sources that you cannot be sued as a first aider. The only people who can be sued are 'professional' medics such as doctors, nurses, paramedics etc. The precedence has been established in court in previous cases over this too.
As far as 'do not resuscitate' goes, this poor person would most probably had some kind of serious ongoing illness or a terminal illness and this scenario would have been discussed between the patient, doctor and the family beforehand. It's not something that you and I make a decision about when we're fit and well. It is a common practice in hospitals and is sorted out beforehand not as an on the spot decision.
As far as the FA not being able to continue on the next sector, I agree totally, as this person is not a medic and will not deal with something like this on a day to day basis and can be quite shocking and to split hairs about how much of a 'medical emergency' it is isn't fair. I wouldn't want to fly with an FA who had been traumatised by such an event and have that person then have to deal with an inflight emergency on the next sector.
In my job I see this happen more times than I wish and it isn't pleasant and for someone who sees it for the first time it must be awful and for anyone to criticise the decision to not continue on has obviously never had it happen to them and I hope you never do.
As far as 'do not resuscitate' goes, this poor person would most probably had some kind of serious ongoing illness or a terminal illness and this scenario would have been discussed between the patient, doctor and the family beforehand. It's not something that you and I make a decision about when we're fit and well. It is a common practice in hospitals and is sorted out beforehand not as an on the spot decision.
As far as the FA not being able to continue on the next sector, I agree totally, as this person is not a medic and will not deal with something like this on a day to day basis and can be quite shocking and to split hairs about how much of a 'medical emergency' it is isn't fair. I wouldn't want to fly with an FA who had been traumatised by such an event and have that person then have to deal with an inflight emergency on the next sector.
In my job I see this happen more times than I wish and it isn't pleasant and for someone who sees it for the first time it must be awful and for anyone to criticise the decision to not continue on has obviously never had it happen to them and I hope you never do.
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Im stunned at the things that have been written here.... as an EAA f/a i have to say something!!
Why the hell wouldnt you be upset as the operating f/a on this flight??? being put in a position like she was and then being told not to administer first aid?? then having the woman die on board?? what kind of person would find that a normal situation??? i know i wouldnt feel up to operating the next sector!
the flight was on a dash 8, was a single f/a operation so the delay for another f/a was fair and reasonable as surprise surprise we dont have a WGA base!
i really dont understand some of the postings in this thread and wish that some people thought before they posted! think people think!
Why the hell wouldnt you be upset as the operating f/a on this flight??? being put in a position like she was and then being told not to administer first aid?? then having the woman die on board?? what kind of person would find that a normal situation??? i know i wouldnt feel up to operating the next sector!
the flight was on a dash 8, was a single f/a operation so the delay for another f/a was fair and reasonable as surprise surprise we dont have a WGA base!
i really dont understand some of the postings in this thread and wish that some people thought before they posted! think people think!
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CaptBob -
My encounters with said manager were FAR from intimate, let me assure you!
Although I here she is getting paid more in her role at EAA. These managers are like puppets on a string really. Pay them enough and they will turn. One only has to look at a certain 'manager' within Jetstar to figure that one out. Organiser at the union one minute... Enough said.
Re the drop-down oxy on the Dh8... We are STILL trying to find the rear ventral airstairs on the 717s. At least she's consistant!
Lancer -
"ditzyboy, you can't retort what I say and then agree with it" - Yeah? Well I did!
I do agree with you... I realise my post was a little vague. My point was it is quite normal for someone to be shaken by the death of a pax. I think I have made it clear as to why an FA cannot be expected to operate after such an incident. We agree to varying levels, I guess. Being a FA myself makes me a little more than sympathic/empathetic to the FA concerned (assuming you are not a FA?). This was a medical incident though (a traumatic one at that). I cannot understand why you would think it was anything but. I agree that people like yourself (aparently) may be able to do another few sectors afterwards. I just think that the flight delay for replacement crew os totally acceptable under the circumstances - I think this is where we disagree?
tea_coffee_me -
You said it! This situation was COMPLETELY normal, in regards to the delay. As mentioned I think being a FA gives us a little more insight as to how this individual must have felt.
My encounters with said manager were FAR from intimate, let me assure you!
Although I here she is getting paid more in her role at EAA. These managers are like puppets on a string really. Pay them enough and they will turn. One only has to look at a certain 'manager' within Jetstar to figure that one out. Organiser at the union one minute... Enough said.Re the drop-down oxy on the Dh8... We are STILL trying to find the rear ventral airstairs on the 717s. At least she's consistant!
Lancer -
"ditzyboy, you can't retort what I say and then agree with it" - Yeah? Well I did!
I do agree with you... I realise my post was a little vague. My point was it is quite normal for someone to be shaken by the death of a pax. I think I have made it clear as to why an FA cannot be expected to operate after such an incident. We agree to varying levels, I guess. Being a FA myself makes me a little more than sympathic/empathetic to the FA concerned (assuming you are not a FA?). This was a medical incident though (a traumatic one at that). I cannot understand why you would think it was anything but. I agree that people like yourself (aparently) may be able to do another few sectors afterwards. I just think that the flight delay for replacement crew os totally acceptable under the circumstances - I think this is where we disagree?
tea_coffee_me -
You said it! This situation was COMPLETELY normal, in regards to the delay. As mentioned I think being a FA gives us a little more insight as to how this individual must have felt.
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I have had a passenger with a similar do not resus order. Apart from the moral issues(imagine an unaccompanied minor sitting across from the person), there is also legal issues. F/A are trained to provide due care with respect to their training. If this request did not pass the company's legal department, serious repercussions could occur. As a result from my case I denied the pax unless willing to accept medical assistance if req'd. I feel for the f/a in ths case. It is however the responsibilty of the Captain to make the decision whether to carry or not & to consider the crew members as well as the legal standing of the company. Just my 2 cents worth.
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My wife had a do not resus order when she was suffering from lung cancer... no one could resus her without having an assault charge levelled against them... and I supported her... it was a quality of life thing.
As a steward/traffic officer (as we were called in them days) had a baby die in flight - had to carry on as counselling facilities were a bit slim in the hills of PNG in the 60's.
As a steward/traffic officer (as we were called in them days) had a baby die in flight - had to carry on as counselling facilities were a bit slim in the hills of PNG in the 60's.
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Didn't feel like continuing? Good for the F/A! Having never been in the situation he/she was in (and hopefully never will be) I really have no idea what it would be like to have a person die in front of me. Don't forget there are (probably) 35 other people in the cabin, in close proximity, with no-where to go, watching you and your reaction to this incident. To be then told not to resuscitate when a F/A's whole job is the safety and wellbeing of the passengers would have to be incredibly distressing. What do you do? Ignore her? Just continue serving the rest as though nothing happened? I certainly would prefer to wait an additional 3 hours for a replacement F/A than run the risk of shock setting in half way through the next sector. We are all only human, after all.
