Chief Pilots potential demise rumours....
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Facts remain
There is an action underway in the federal court.
If proven there will be significant fallout.
All individuals have the ability to rebutt allegations of misconduct, harassment and intimidation. For one I am glad our association is.
As to the "tools" you sometimes experience in our job...Due process is something that applies to all parties. Having heard plenty of rumours about individuals, only to be pleasantly suprised I am glad, should I be threatened/labelled that there is due process! In this case the individual at the centre of the allegation should be glad that there is due process. For once an independant system will make a decision.
As for the the overtones of Horst(an appropriate acronymn)
Im certainly no dictator, but the dictatorial tone of management is being held, at least to this point accountable. That has not happened in the previous AIPA committees. I am happy to let the court have its say. Unlike most dictators, I am a mere observor. I am a line driver exerting no control over the process, the participants or indeed the outcome
There is an action underway in the federal court.
If proven there will be significant fallout.
All individuals have the ability to rebutt allegations of misconduct, harassment and intimidation. For one I am glad our association is.
As to the "tools" you sometimes experience in our job...Due process is something that applies to all parties. Having heard plenty of rumours about individuals, only to be pleasantly suprised I am glad, should I be threatened/labelled that there is due process! In this case the individual at the centre of the allegation should be glad that there is due process. For once an independant system will make a decision.
As for the the overtones of Horst(an appropriate acronymn)
Im certainly no dictator, but the dictatorial tone of management is being held, at least to this point accountable. That has not happened in the previous AIPA committees. I am happy to let the court have its say. Unlike most dictators, I am a mere observor. I am a line driver exerting no control over the process, the participants or indeed the outcome
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Horst, I'm not making a judgement on whether blueloo was right or wrong in starting this thread, nor on the relative merits of playing on poster's pseudonym, but do you know what 'PPRUNE' stands for? Do you understand how it started and what the initials mean?
I re-read your statement 'If you truly wished to find if there was truth in the base of the rumours why did you not consult with other QF pilots...' several times and I am still pondering the inherent oxy-oxy-oxymorons in using the words 'truth', 'rumours', 'consult' and 'other QF pilots' all in the one sentence!
Rumours are rumours, and for the most part they are fair game on PPRUNE whether you find them pleasant ones or otherwise. If you do not like that, cease posting, delete it from your favourites, and cancel your registration. 'PPTRNE' just somehow doesn't have the same ring to it!
I re-read your statement 'If you truly wished to find if there was truth in the base of the rumours why did you not consult with other QF pilots...' several times and I am still pondering the inherent oxy-oxy-oxymorons in using the words 'truth', 'rumours', 'consult' and 'other QF pilots' all in the one sentence!
Rumours are rumours, and for the most part they are fair game on PPRUNE whether you find them pleasant ones or otherwise. If you do not like that, cease posting, delete it from your favourites, and cancel your registration. 'PPTRNE' just somehow doesn't have the same ring to it!
Personally I didn't realize there was any PILOT in such a position, just chief I think would be the correct title. 
AHHH! Watch out for the rocks, what's that you say, there's no-one manning the wheel. We are all dooomed I tell you DOOOOOMED.
:
AHHH! Watch out for the rocks, what's that you say, there's no-one manning the wheel. We are all dooomed I tell you DOOOOOMED.
:
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Manning going down
A Qantas colleague of mine has just sent me the latest AIPA weekly newsletter as the information contained therein seems pertinent to this thread.
It appears that Qantas' infamous leader, (previous leader of the AIPA), is really the one responsible for the lack of communication between the Union and Qantas management.
It would appear to me, as an outsider, that the demise of the Chief Pilot is, and will be, caused by his total miscalculation of the animosity that exists towards him from within the pilot body. Apparently this was caused by his total reliance on the previous AIPA President's ability to hand Qantas a destroyed union. This would appear to have backfired.
As for the demise of the Deputy Chief Pilot, or Manning's sacrificial lamb, I think rather he is actually the prodigal idiot that most dictators need at their right hand.
It appears that Qantas' infamous leader, (previous leader of the AIPA), is really the one responsible for the lack of communication between the Union and Qantas management.
It would appear to me, as an outsider, that the demise of the Chief Pilot is, and will be, caused by his total miscalculation of the animosity that exists towards him from within the pilot body. Apparently this was caused by his total reliance on the previous AIPA President's ability to hand Qantas a destroyed union. This would appear to have backfired.
As for the demise of the Deputy Chief Pilot, or Manning's sacrificial lamb, I think rather he is actually the prodigal idiot that most dictators need at their right hand.
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Who the F**k care what you 'an outsider' thinks? Sorry, but 'outsiders' know what they hear from mates and what the read on rumour orientated websites- hardly reliable sources.
Who'll go first IW or CM. My money is heavily on IW.
Who'll go first IW or CM. My money is heavily on IW.
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Oh get off it Ulysses! Is everything AIPA President and team says absolutely gospel? 
You could have almost gotten away with that post until you called the former DCP the prodigal idiot. You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Have you read what the Chief Pilot said in his update as well, or would that be too balancing for you?
I doubt an outsider would have created a new profile for that as a first post...
(Edited to remove names for those sensitive types who think initials dont give away anything!
)
You could have almost gotten away with that post until you called the former DCP the prodigal idiot. You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Have you read what the Chief Pilot said in his update as well, or would that be too balancing for you?
I doubt an outsider would have created a new profile for that as a first post...
(Edited to remove names for those sensitive types who think initials dont give away anything!
)
Last edited by *Lancer*; 27th Apr 2006 at 06:51.
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The current AIPA President is so poorly thought of by everyone from the Chairman down at Qantas that it would be highly unlikely that he could influence the colour of the toilet paper, let alone the career of the current CP.
Perhaps the thinking people should dig a little deeper to fully understand the history of those in power at AIPA at the moment and gain some insight into why they are considered "morally bankrupt" by the management of QF.
Then you will understand why your futures are not as bright as perhaps they should be.
Negotiation or arbitration? You decide!
Perhaps the thinking people should dig a little deeper to fully understand the history of those in power at AIPA at the moment and gain some insight into why they are considered "morally bankrupt" by the management of QF.
Then you will understand why your futures are not as bright as perhaps they should be.
Negotiation or arbitration? You decide!
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Who cares what the Chairman, CEO or any other manager thinks of the AIPA president...
It is the membership that must be confident and most are!
I'm glad the union isn't rolling over...
I'm glad there isn't a cosy relationship
It was only cosy because the pilot group could be relied upon to roll over....A relationship takes two..To suggest that management have an open dialgoue and the door of the CP or anyone else has been open is to deny reality...They aren't open, but they sure are gettin the message that the business is getting a little more difficult to operate..It isn't the profesisonalism being withdrawn, it's the goodwill
QF negotiation is take it or leave it!
If they don't realise it is a two way street, then arbitration is another option and luckily "work choices" can't affect our ability to take action through the court!
It is the membership that must be confident and most are!
I'm glad the union isn't rolling over...
I'm glad there isn't a cosy relationship
It was only cosy because the pilot group could be relied upon to roll over....A relationship takes two..To suggest that management have an open dialgoue and the door of the CP or anyone else has been open is to deny reality...They aren't open, but they sure are gettin the message that the business is getting a little more difficult to operate..It isn't the profesisonalism being withdrawn, it's the goodwill
QF negotiation is take it or leave it!
If they don't realise it is a two way street, then arbitration is another option and luckily "work choices" can't affect our ability to take action through the court!
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Boo hoo, the management types don't like the new AIPA chief.
Well, maybe cause he doesn't roll over at every opportunity like his predecessors. Maybe cause he is actually representing the pilots, unlike his predecessors.
Maybe cause he is a block in thier path to totally screwing the entire pilot group, including the next generation of pilots.
"The current AIPA President is so poorly thought of by everyone from the Chairman down at Qantas"?? That is a joke, right?
Maybe they should look in the mirror.
Well, maybe cause he doesn't roll over at every opportunity like his predecessors. Maybe cause he is actually representing the pilots, unlike his predecessors.
Maybe cause he is a block in thier path to totally screwing the entire pilot group, including the next generation of pilots.
"The current AIPA President is so poorly thought of by everyone from the Chairman down at Qantas"?? That is a joke, right?
Maybe they should look in the mirror.
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Jakie-boy.
I understand you have a personal interest in the demise of the former COM, but it all depends on results.
The former pole-smoking of the last COM did not deliver JQ int, it may well be that the current approach will not work either.
From the CEO down, the management have a pathelogical hatred of the pilot body.
regardsless of who is in charge of AIPA, nothing can change that now.
I understand you have a personal interest in the demise of the former COM, but it all depends on results.
The former pole-smoking of the last COM did not deliver JQ int, it may well be that the current approach will not work either.
From the CEO down, the management have a pathelogical hatred of the pilot body.
regardsless of who is in charge of AIPA, nothing can change that now.
Originally Posted by jakethemuss
.....they are considered "morally bankrupt" by the management of QF.
And how would you describe the treatment of staff by QF management?
The previous Committee was attacked (and still is) about the failure to negotiate a Jetstar deal, and yet while the current Committee was getting on with the business of 'reforming' the AIPA office the horse bolted (again) on JQI.
QFinsider, and Sonny, you have to realise that if Dixon wants to play hard-ball, Dixon will win. You think the flight attendants and engineers lacked some secret advantage the current AIPA President has?
Wake up!
Its time to realise that if Qantas is going to think outside the square and reduce pilot costs, whining about it and taking Qantas to court is not going to solve a thing. Antagonising your boss is not a very constructive way forward when they hold most of the cards (don't delude yourselves and pretend they don't).
I sincerely hope more and more pilots are waking up to the fact that there is no substance to the ARG other than spin. Interestingly, the last update was very cleverly worded to try and mitigate that perception.
QFinsider, and Sonny, you have to realise that if Dixon wants to play hard-ball, Dixon will win. You think the flight attendants and engineers lacked some secret advantage the current AIPA President has?
Wake up!
Its time to realise that if Qantas is going to think outside the square and reduce pilot costs, whining about it and taking Qantas to court is not going to solve a thing. Antagonising your boss is not a very constructive way forward when they hold most of the cards (don't delude yourselves and pretend they don't).
I sincerely hope more and more pilots are waking up to the fact that there is no substance to the ARG other than spin. Interestingly, the last update was very cleverly worded to try and mitigate that perception.
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So what do you suggest?
We played ball, so to speak, over the years and while that might have worked in the past, recently, management have abused this position.
We got locked out of negotiations re J*. Not much else to say there.
So now we have the sh*ts and are standing to be heard on a few issues. Some important in there own right, others making a point.
I think you will find most pilots are now awake to what is going on, on both sides, but you cant seriously suggest we sit by idley while we are made totally irrelevant.
Maybe its inevitable, maybe it isn't but by doing nothing we'll get nothing, (proven that) and maybe if we can get some respect back we may become relevant at the table.
Personally, I doubt it's possible. Management seems to relish treating their long term staff badly. Why? Sure there are some bad eggs etc etc, but there are heaps who have done there best and are willing to do what it takes to keep the roo going for all.
Unfortunately, that is being ignored by the bosses, who think the better path forward is to alienate nearly everyone.
We played ball, so to speak, over the years and while that might have worked in the past, recently, management have abused this position.
We got locked out of negotiations re J*. Not much else to say there.
So now we have the sh*ts and are standing to be heard on a few issues. Some important in there own right, others making a point.
I think you will find most pilots are now awake to what is going on, on both sides, but you cant seriously suggest we sit by idley while we are made totally irrelevant.
Maybe its inevitable, maybe it isn't but by doing nothing we'll get nothing, (proven that) and maybe if we can get some respect back we may become relevant at the table.
Personally, I doubt it's possible. Management seems to relish treating their long term staff badly. Why? Sure there are some bad eggs etc etc, but there are heaps who have done there best and are willing to do what it takes to keep the roo going for all.
Unfortunately, that is being ignored by the bosses, who think the better path forward is to alienate nearly everyone.
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Jake, the current AIPA leaders were obviously not thought of poorly by the overwhelming majority of QF pilots who elected them (if you don't understand the term 'overwhelming', perhaps you could post the relevant AIPA COM election results onto PPRUNE for the benefit of the uninformed, along with annotations of which 'side' they belonged to?).
I also find it a little bit hypocritical that current QF managment might consider them 'morally bankrupt'. Anecdotally (and I'm sure you're not one for anecdotes), a disturbingly large proportion of QF pilots I've spoken to in recent months tend to share this sentiment.
Also, just for my benefit because I'm a bit dim, could you please quantify - perhaps using Jetstar as an example - how 'negotiation' by the previous AIPA reps has protected and/or furthered mainline pilot pay, conditions, and career prospects?
I also find it a little bit hypocritical that current QF managment might consider them 'morally bankrupt'. Anecdotally (and I'm sure you're not one for anecdotes), a disturbingly large proportion of QF pilots I've spoken to in recent months tend to share this sentiment.
Also, just for my benefit because I'm a bit dim, could you please quantify - perhaps using Jetstar as an example - how 'negotiation' by the previous AIPA reps has protected and/or furthered mainline pilot pay, conditions, and career prospects?
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I had heard that the potential demise had something to do with his attempts to remove a SO "after" a trip (rather than before...), when he was suspected of drug usage. The rumour is that CASA has become involved and is p1ssed about the whole episode....
You know the rules, no names. W
You know the rules, no names. W