Jetstar (Oz) recruiting in Singapore
The Singaporian interviews are probably the coup de grace for Geoff Dixon. He has finally got the small chunk of Ansett he wanted; and for nothing.
The ACTU, administrators and government obstrucuted his original wants to cherry pick the Ansett business of it's A320 operation.
Piece by piece, he has bolted it on to the limited former Impulse operation. Building a low cost domestic carrier and now an international carrier.
The decision to allow J* management to put ridiculous requirments on the new operation- 2000 hours Airbus command, 330 command, Asian Airbus expeience etc- will enable J* to bring home more Airbus experience from abroad. The baulk of which will be ex-AN, a known quantity to current management, averting the risks of hobbo's from the contract world ( in their view ).
He has completed his original deal at a fraction of the original cost- a rapidly expandable operation, without limitation of Airbus expertise, bolted on or 'slaved' industrially ( so to speak ) to the downtrodden Impulse pilot group.
A master stroke. Good luck to those who would like to come home.
The ACTU, administrators and government obstrucuted his original wants to cherry pick the Ansett business of it's A320 operation.
Piece by piece, he has bolted it on to the limited former Impulse operation. Building a low cost domestic carrier and now an international carrier.
The decision to allow J* management to put ridiculous requirments on the new operation- 2000 hours Airbus command, 330 command, Asian Airbus expeience etc- will enable J* to bring home more Airbus experience from abroad. The baulk of which will be ex-AN, a known quantity to current management, averting the risks of hobbo's from the contract world ( in their view ).
He has completed his original deal at a fraction of the original cost- a rapidly expandable operation, without limitation of Airbus expertise, bolted on or 'slaved' industrially ( so to speak ) to the downtrodden Impulse pilot group.
A master stroke. Good luck to those who would like to come home.
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it certainly is clever, but i wonder what he has up his sleeve to deal with the fact that there simply isn't the quantity or quality of techcrew out there who want to live in Australia for the money he's willing to give.
Grandpa Aerotart
Are we forgetting the seniority clause...any DEC will face the very real prospect of being back in the RHS 2 yrs after joining...in fact it should be noted that NO DECs will be hired...some pilots will be hired as FOs BUT with a 2 yr uprade to captain clause...the date of their subsequent return to the RHS will be appear next to their names on the seniority list. By the time two yrs have passed the vast majority of current J* pilots ill have 2000hrs A320 command time...and the 787s will be just around the corner....that is to say that over the next 2 yrs MOST current J* pilots will meet the (stupid) min experience requirements...and EVERY SINGLE ONE will be senior to every pilot hired in the interim...even ones still on the 717 will have 2000 hrs A320 in a little over 2 yrs at the rate they fly.
This alone will shrink the potential numbers applying....perhaps the JPG were not so industrially naive after all.
This alone will shrink the potential numbers applying....perhaps the JPG were not so industrially naive after all.
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Sorry CC, you guys are seriously going to stand up to your management and get those blokes demoted, as the strong unified work force that you are? 
Or are you expecting the managers to do it willingly as a good will gesture to thank you all for your hard work getting the show up and running? Remember where these guys got their big breaks in the first place? You think they give a rats about what the pilot body want? This is a chance for them to get their mates into the LHS ahead of you guys.
Dont believe me? Try taking a seniority based arguement to the industrial relations commish. (Thats if it still exists in a few years). Then you will find out the true value of any such agreement. The legal basis of the arguement they will defeat you with? Seniority is descriminatory, therefore illegal. Both sides know it, companies salivate at the thought of a challenge based on seniority. Why do you think they let you have it as a start up in the first place? Weren't you guys set up to rid the aviation world of draconian industrial work place agreements? They let you guys keep it, because they knew the moment it caused a dispute, they would wipe the floor with you in the industrial courts. They know that seniority is the security blanket that all pilots cuddle while they suck their thumb. While they have it, they are happy.
Take it away, and they start bawling.
But heres the clincher. The company didnt want to take seniority away from you, the nasty industrial courts did it when you guys took the poor helpless company to court over a breach of seniority. What a shame. Still dont believe me? Ask the JPC legal team, if they dont have one, AIPAs.
Sorry CC, I agree with you alot on this forum. But this one, if your basis is seniority, sorry pal, the only advice I can give, "There is always time for lube!" Take your own, because management tend not to supply it.
Or are you expecting the managers to do it willingly as a good will gesture to thank you all for your hard work getting the show up and running? Remember where these guys got their big breaks in the first place? You think they give a rats about what the pilot body want? This is a chance for them to get their mates into the LHS ahead of you guys. Dont believe me? Try taking a seniority based arguement to the industrial relations commish. (Thats if it still exists in a few years). Then you will find out the true value of any such agreement. The legal basis of the arguement they will defeat you with? Seniority is descriminatory, therefore illegal. Both sides know it, companies salivate at the thought of a challenge based on seniority. Why do you think they let you have it as a start up in the first place? Weren't you guys set up to rid the aviation world of draconian industrial work place agreements? They let you guys keep it, because they knew the moment it caused a dispute, they would wipe the floor with you in the industrial courts. They know that seniority is the security blanket that all pilots cuddle while they suck their thumb. While they have it, they are happy.
Take it away, and they start bawling.
But heres the clincher. The company didnt want to take seniority away from you, the nasty industrial courts did it when you guys took the poor helpless company to court over a breach of seniority. What a shame.
Still dont believe me? Ask the JPC legal team, if they dont have one, AIPAs.Sorry CC, I agree with you alot on this forum. But this one, if your basis is seniority, sorry pal, the only advice I can give, "There is always time for lube!" Take your own, because management tend not to supply it.
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Gnads,
It's NOT 2000 hrs it is 1500 hrs, and that is only for the first 3 A330's.
All subsequent will be 1000hrs A320 for upgrade.
The idea is that the first group will assist in the training and checking on the type. And that was a requirement put on them by CASA, not by management.
If you are going to talk as if you know whats going on, get the facts first. I thought you of all people ,WG would at least do that.
It's NOT 2000 hrs it is 1500 hrs, and that is only for the first 3 A330's.
All subsequent will be 1000hrs A320 for upgrade.
The idea is that the first group will assist in the training and checking on the type. And that was a requirement put on them by CASA, not by management.
If you are going to talk as if you know whats going on, get the facts first. I thought you of all people ,WG would at least do that.
Grandpa Aerotart
Guys I don't work at J*...I will say it again...I am not in J*....I have no agenda...simply a view based on close contacts within the system and perhaps a little distance based perspective.
The info is in their certified agreement that was posted on this forum. I asked the very same question of a mate who is a senior 717 checky..'so what happens if the company doesn't honor that agreement'.
In his view that would be the first time the company has done this...a management pilot tried once, on another issue, but the company agreed with the pilots. He would be the first to agree that if they do there would be limited options for redress.
I am as cynical as anyone here when it comes to airline management..as faheel will attest..I have seen management practices that would curl the toes of most pilots who have not been outside Oz. So have all my mates working in Jetstar.
If J* management want to ignore certified EBAs and totally screw over their workforce they will...not a lot to stop them...but why stress over stuff that has not happened...why read into every situation the very worst outcome when to date it has not been a feature of their relations with management at J*?
Whether it happens or not is not really the point of my last post...that being only how many pilots will take the chance that it WON'T happen and leave a reletively well paid command overseas?
I wouldn't.
Much milage is got from the perceived better lifestyle in Oz...that lifestyle costs money. It is my view that between the new IR laws, taxation practices and generally low pay in Oz...not to mention fun having been outlawed long ago in Oz, Australia has become a place to avoid as far as possible this side of retirement. Given the options of return to Oz and work until I'm 65 to be able to afford a mediocre retirement or stay overseas and retire earlier at a higher standard of living I know which I prefer.
The info is in their certified agreement that was posted on this forum. I asked the very same question of a mate who is a senior 717 checky..'so what happens if the company doesn't honor that agreement'.
In his view that would be the first time the company has done this...a management pilot tried once, on another issue, but the company agreed with the pilots. He would be the first to agree that if they do there would be limited options for redress.
I am as cynical as anyone here when it comes to airline management..as faheel will attest..I have seen management practices that would curl the toes of most pilots who have not been outside Oz. So have all my mates working in Jetstar.
If J* management want to ignore certified EBAs and totally screw over their workforce they will...not a lot to stop them...but why stress over stuff that has not happened...why read into every situation the very worst outcome when to date it has not been a feature of their relations with management at J*?
Whether it happens or not is not really the point of my last post...that being only how many pilots will take the chance that it WON'T happen and leave a reletively well paid command overseas?
I wouldn't.
Much milage is got from the perceived better lifestyle in Oz...that lifestyle costs money. It is my view that between the new IR laws, taxation practices and generally low pay in Oz...not to mention fun having been outlawed long ago in Oz, Australia has become a place to avoid as far as possible this side of retirement. Given the options of return to Oz and work until I'm 65 to be able to afford a mediocre retirement or stay overseas and retire earlier at a higher standard of living I know which I prefer.
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Hey UR2 how backward is Oz aviation, Jetst* and as you point out CASA. Why these ridiculous requirements in the first place to fly the A330?
Where i come from initial commands are common on the A330.
It seems that a certain "group" of management pilots had to sure up the opportunity to "bypass" again the seniority issue to fly the A330.
Again scratch a little below the surface and see the experience levels for what they really are, with the majority of your "experienced" group, from that now defunct carrier, are really in the global sense, extremely inexperienced (and unemployable
).
Of course they will equate hours boringly flogging up and down the east coast of OZ as high levels of experience!!
To place such silly requirements to fly what is a very simple aircraft just makes you guys look even more ridiculous than you already are !!
Where i come from initial commands are common on the A330.
It seems that a certain "group" of management pilots had to sure up the opportunity to "bypass" again the seniority issue to fly the A330.
Again scratch a little below the surface and see the experience levels for what they really are, with the majority of your "experienced" group, from that now defunct carrier, are really in the global sense, extremely inexperienced (and unemployable
).Of course they will equate hours boringly flogging up and down the east coast of OZ as high levels of experience!!
To place such silly requirements to fly what is a very simple aircraft just makes you guys look even more ridiculous than you already are !!
Last edited by Iakklat; 3rd Apr 2006 at 08:12.
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Seniority and by pass will not apply in JQI
AJ and Oldmeadow got the deal they wanted. The pilot groups will be splintered. Could you imagine the JQ pilots fighting? and being lead (can't think of the correct word) by the JPC in to battle.
No lads, the AN management team lead by Gissing do not have to apply the contract. By the way, is it true none of the current JQ management went through a selection process, and is it also true that those that did all failed the test but were appointed anyhow?
AJ and Oldmeadow got the deal they wanted. The pilot groups will be splintered. Could you imagine the JQ pilots fighting? and being lead (can't think of the correct word) by the JPC in to battle.
No lads, the AN management team lead by Gissing do not have to apply the contract. By the way, is it true none of the current JQ management went through a selection process, and is it also true that those that did all failed the test but were appointed anyhow?
