EK recruiting in Oz
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desert city
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Hey 146
yep I am an F/O and no I havent been by passed by any DEC as you put it.
My post wasnt about the DEC or about commands...it was just a insight into the reality and frustration of living in the sand.
I guess by the way you say you are nearly set up for life that you will be packing it in soon and heading home. congratulations
my question to you is....... why dont you do another 14yrs and make a real go of it and become a 20yr man. I gues if you have come from a third world country flying over loaded under performing aircraft for next to no salary the middle east would be a great option.
But where I come from its not like that and I was just letting a few mates back in Aussie and NZ know that its not all roses.
You cant fool me or anyone else up here 146 and I know that deep down inside you know exactly what I am talking about .....and probably feel the same as the rest of us
Like I said in my post I am stuck here for a while but I am working hard to undo all that has been done to get me and my family back home to a normal life paying tax and being free.
TR
yep I am an F/O and no I havent been by passed by any DEC as you put it.
My post wasnt about the DEC or about commands...it was just a insight into the reality and frustration of living in the sand.
I guess by the way you say you are nearly set up for life that you will be packing it in soon and heading home. congratulations
my question to you is....... why dont you do another 14yrs and make a real go of it and become a 20yr man. I gues if you have come from a third world country flying over loaded under performing aircraft for next to no salary the middle east would be a great option.
But where I come from its not like that and I was just letting a few mates back in Aussie and NZ know that its not all roses.
You cant fool me or anyone else up here 146 and I know that deep down inside you know exactly what I am talking about .....and probably feel the same as the rest of us
Like I said in my post I am stuck here for a while but I am working hard to undo all that has been done to get me and my family back home to a normal life paying tax and being free.
TR
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desert city
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just saw this on the Middle east forum......something to think about
thanks to Cerebus.
Emirates to Cathay Actual Pay Comparison
We have al read the post that say a CX 'Toilet Attendant' earns more than an EK 'Universe Fleet Chief Pilot' so I thought I'd do some research.
Got my info from an open website which has the actual gen. (all in US Dollars). The site I looked at says that variable pay and housing allowances are not included for Cathay so I have not included them for EK either. I believe Cathay's variable pay is somewhat better than EK's though. Leave, medical and insurance etc seem comparable. Hong Kong tax takes about 16%; about the same as hidden taxes in Dubai. (Updated Feb 06)
Emirates
F/O $60,065-$69,331 (6 years)
Capt $87,040-$92,341 (3 years) $116,975 (10 years)
Cathay
S/O $49,878-$70,078 JFO $76,522
F/O $99,483-$104,645 SFO $108,000-$122,000
Capt $152,000- (I think becomes Snr Capt after 2 years)
Snr Capt $157,000-$186,000 (10 years) $210,580 (17yrs)
So, sadly by my reckoning:
1. A CX snr SO actually does earn more than a jnr EK F/O.
2. And; a CX F/O does earn more than an EK Capt.
3. A CX SFO earns more than a 10 year EK Capt.
4. And; a CX Capt earns 75% more than a EK Capt on appointment.
Thank god we have quick commands at EK, no DECs, a great rostering system, all the leave we could possibly want.....what we don't?
I have to be honest I actually found the figures quite shocking, I was planning to disprove the other posts. Hong Kong is a bit more expensive than Dubai but the fact is:
Permission to start blubbering, Sir!
Cerberus
thanks to Cerebus.
Emirates to Cathay Actual Pay Comparison
We have al read the post that say a CX 'Toilet Attendant' earns more than an EK 'Universe Fleet Chief Pilot' so I thought I'd do some research.
Got my info from an open website which has the actual gen. (all in US Dollars). The site I looked at says that variable pay and housing allowances are not included for Cathay so I have not included them for EK either. I believe Cathay's variable pay is somewhat better than EK's though. Leave, medical and insurance etc seem comparable. Hong Kong tax takes about 16%; about the same as hidden taxes in Dubai. (Updated Feb 06)
Emirates
F/O $60,065-$69,331 (6 years)
Capt $87,040-$92,341 (3 years) $116,975 (10 years)
Cathay
S/O $49,878-$70,078 JFO $76,522
F/O $99,483-$104,645 SFO $108,000-$122,000
Capt $152,000- (I think becomes Snr Capt after 2 years)
Snr Capt $157,000-$186,000 (10 years) $210,580 (17yrs)
So, sadly by my reckoning:
1. A CX snr SO actually does earn more than a jnr EK F/O.
2. And; a CX F/O does earn more than an EK Capt.
3. A CX SFO earns more than a 10 year EK Capt.
4. And; a CX Capt earns 75% more than a EK Capt on appointment.
Thank god we have quick commands at EK, no DECs, a great rostering system, all the leave we could possibly want.....what we don't?
I have to be honest I actually found the figures quite shocking, I was planning to disprove the other posts. Hong Kong is a bit more expensive than Dubai but the fact is:
Permission to start blubbering, Sir!
Cerberus
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Tail Rota,
Obviously there is a pay difference but.. you're not paying tax in Dubai and accomodation is supplied, petrol for the mota is about 30p a litre I think? Beer from the licenced outlet ain't too bad either.
So can you compare on an equal basis?
Blue Foot
PS. I heard EK have asked Airbus if it's possible to park up their new planes for a while due lack of crews?
Obviously there is a pay difference but.. you're not paying tax in Dubai and accomodation is supplied, petrol for the mota is about 30p a litre I think? Beer from the licenced outlet ain't too bad either.
So can you compare on an equal basis?
Blue Foot
PS. I heard EK have asked Airbus if it's possible to park up their new planes for a while due lack of crews?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Ahh another one has fallen for the old "tax-free" line.
Yes there is not income tax in Dubai... YET.
But there is a tax on booze. Very expensive to drown your sorrows unless you bootleg it through Sharjah from the hole-in-the-wall.
There is a municipal tax and there are service charges applied to just about everything.
Did I mention the lifestyle tax?
Fuel, a sore point in Aust, has nevertheless gone up about 40 or 50% in only TWO price hikes in the last 3 years.
A VAT is supposedly just around the corner.
Income tax is also under discussion, at differing rates for expats/locals, of course, if the locals are even taxed at all.
Interestingly, they still have a "duty-free" shop at the airport which does a roaring trade hooking in other suckers who fall for the tax-free line. Strange since there is supposedly no tax.
One thing that IS tax-free is tobacco. We can't go taxing fags, now can we? (That's the "fags" you puff on, not the other kind.... wait, let me re-phrase that....
)
Yes there is not income tax in Dubai... YET.
But there is a tax on booze. Very expensive to drown your sorrows unless you bootleg it through Sharjah from the hole-in-the-wall.
There is a municipal tax and there are service charges applied to just about everything.
Did I mention the lifestyle tax?
Fuel, a sore point in Aust, has nevertheless gone up about 40 or 50% in only TWO price hikes in the last 3 years.
A VAT is supposedly just around the corner.
Income tax is also under discussion, at differing rates for expats/locals, of course, if the locals are even taxed at all.
Interestingly, they still have a "duty-free" shop at the airport which does a roaring trade hooking in other suckers who fall for the tax-free line. Strange since there is supposedly no tax.
One thing that IS tax-free is tobacco. We can't go taxing fags, now can we? (That's the "fags" you puff on, not the other kind.... wait, let me re-phrase that....
)
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: fantasy island
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Tail Rota you say you have come from dunnunda with massive credit card debts, mortgage and car loan. Well I'll get out my violin and start playing Romanian Tradgedy in E minor for you. I came out of the UK seven years ago in a similiar situation with debt. You must have got lucky to have been able to have a few pounds over to get into the real estate market. Point is aviation in the UK was/is unpredictable and pilots are generally underpaid and overworked. Here you are worked the same but enjoy tax free remuneration, accomodation and many other niceties.
As for my longevity here, I will decide if I desire to become a "twenty-year man" but rest assured it will have nothing to do with "......getting me and my family back home to a normal life paying tax and being free." It will be decided on whether or not the next job is as good as or better than my current one.
I can remember the hard knocks in this industry and I can tell you, for me, this is a good job !
P.S. I'll let you decide if the UK is a third world.
As for my longevity here, I will decide if I desire to become a "twenty-year man" but rest assured it will have nothing to do with "......getting me and my family back home to a normal life paying tax and being free." It will be decided on whether or not the next job is as good as or better than my current one.
I can remember the hard knocks in this industry and I can tell you, for me, this is a good job !
P.S. I'll let you decide if the UK is a third world.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Tail Rota,
You say no DE commands, but, a mate of mine has just got a 777 DE command at EK, and had no previous wide body time.
I believe their will be many more.
You say no DE commands, but, a mate of mine has just got a 777 DE command at EK, and had no previous wide body time.
I believe their will be many more.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Blue foot
Hi Blue Foot, you mention that EK gives you free housing, however Cathay, thru the housing allowance, will pay off your mortgage, so you own your house here. Its another "revenue stream" to use managment-speak. Or, they will pay your rent, so its the same as having a house provided. Petrol here is around 13HKD/litre, which is 1.70USD/litre, not sure how that stacks up but the public transport here is so good, there is no need for cars anyway.
Now for the really important stuff; Beer can be had from the B scale bar (7-11) for 10ish HKD per can (1.25USD). AND, you can drink it anywhere, and I mean anywhere, buses, ferrys etc. It does go up to around 50HKD when you head out to town, but judging by the number of westerners in a numbed up state, it doesn't seem to stop them!! 
Tail Rota, thats an informative and interesting post, I had thought EK payed quite similar.
Nosey
Or, they will pay your rent, so its the same as having a house provided. Petrol here is around 13HKD/litre, which is 1.70USD/litre, not sure how that stacks up but the public transport here is so good, there is no need for cars anyway.Now for the really important stuff; Beer can be had from the B scale bar (7-11) for 10ish HKD per can (1.25USD).
AND, you can drink it anywhere, and I mean anywhere, buses, ferrys etc. It does go up to around 50HKD when you head out to town, but judging by the number of westerners in a numbed up state, it doesn't seem to stop them!! Tail Rota, thats an informative and interesting post, I had thought EK payed quite similar.
Nosey
Join Date: Mar 2006
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hi ya blue foot
Baghdaddy has outlined some of the tax issues......beer and wine is taxed up here at in Dubai at 30% and thats on top of the price after importation. we pay similar prices to the guys back home but they put 30% on top for the privilliage of buying alcohol. oh ...... and you must be licienced to buy it and store it at home.
as far as parked up planes go I haveheard the 777's have been difficult to crew and some have been parked on various days due lack of crew. Herad a great rumour about two A340's not being crewed Xmas day due lack of crew.....so things are getting tight.
UR2 yes mate DEC's are here ....... and more are coming. I believe about 100 over the next 12 months or so. this issue has been long standing here since my arrival. but even the DEC contract isnt the bees knees. it doesnt matter what seat you are in ...you are still subjected to all frustrations of living up here.
146...the UK is most definitly not third world ...however after being on layovers there for the past few years in London, Birmingham and Manchester....I can see how dubai may offer a little better life style for ya. the dirham to the pound isnt that good at the moment but am glad you are happy.
TR
ps: its raining today as I woke up...(very rare up in these parts)we are not going to leave the house ........ as the roads will be carnage today and I expect the papers to publish another day of record accidents due to people driving too close to fast and not being able to stop because of the slippery roads. hopefully no deaths but its Dubai and I expect at least a couple.
Baghdaddy has outlined some of the tax issues......beer and wine is taxed up here at in Dubai at 30% and thats on top of the price after importation. we pay similar prices to the guys back home but they put 30% on top for the privilliage of buying alcohol. oh ...... and you must be licienced to buy it and store it at home.
as far as parked up planes go I haveheard the 777's have been difficult to crew and some have been parked on various days due lack of crew. Herad a great rumour about two A340's not being crewed Xmas day due lack of crew.....so things are getting tight.
UR2 yes mate DEC's are here ....... and more are coming. I believe about 100 over the next 12 months or so. this issue has been long standing here since my arrival. but even the DEC contract isnt the bees knees. it doesnt matter what seat you are in ...you are still subjected to all frustrations of living up here.
146...the UK is most definitly not third world ...however after being on layovers there for the past few years in London, Birmingham and Manchester....I can see how dubai may offer a little better life style for ya. the dirham to the pound isnt that good at the moment but am glad you are happy.
TR
ps: its raining today as I woke up...(very rare up in these parts)we are not going to leave the house ........ as the roads will be carnage today and I expect the papers to publish another day of record accidents due to people driving too close to fast and not being able to stop because of the slippery roads. hopefully no deaths but its Dubai and I expect at least a couple.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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beer @ 100 dhs / case all in
gas is still cheap
fees /taxes wrt property only apply to those how are not in company provided housing @ 250 pilots(expat)
no end in sight to the block hours coming down ie 100/month for the rest of your life
new hire F/O should be looking at 5-7 years for upgrade
100 upgrades on the airbus this year, based on 346's coming ,so that's old news now, your guess is as good as any
@100 DECs for the 777 ,they failed last time with the airbus
If T/C's don't change we will have a hard time getting 396 pilots this year
US recruiting drive will not get the response they want,777 DEC's, they think the package is a joke
The new villas at Oasis City are not that bad , flew with 2 guys going out there and are looking forward to it,
Some guys are being told to move or pay the difference , housing department not being very reasonable to deal with
Schools don't seem to be a problem lately and the fees seem to be almost covered except ASD/DAA elementary , please correct me if wrong
gas is still cheap
fees /taxes wrt property only apply to those how are not in company provided housing @ 250 pilots(expat)
no end in sight to the block hours coming down ie 100/month for the rest of your life
new hire F/O should be looking at 5-7 years for upgrade
100 upgrades on the airbus this year, based on 346's coming ,so that's old news now, your guess is as good as any
@100 DECs for the 777 ,they failed last time with the airbus
If T/C's don't change we will have a hard time getting 396 pilots this year
US recruiting drive will not get the response they want,777 DEC's, they think the package is a joke
The new villas at Oasis City are not that bad , flew with 2 guys going out there and are looking forward to it,
Some guys are being told to move or pay the difference , housing department not being very reasonable to deal with
Schools don't seem to be a problem lately and the fees seem to be almost covered except ASD/DAA elementary , please correct me if wrong
Join Date: Jan 2004
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BA146 if you're nearly "set up" after six years in the middle east (I presume you mean financially set up), you're not working for EK, or you've just won the Arab equivalent of Tattslotto. EK does not pay that much.
Maybe you mean another "set up".
Maybe you mean another "set up".
"Death but First Bongo"
According to reliable sources, flying for Emirates is not unlike the old joke "Death or Bongo?"
But after what has happend to conditions of service in Australia, perhaps the low cost culprits do deserve 'Death by Bongo'. With the cruel end being perpetrated by managers with names like Mohammed or Jassim, instead of the desert island, native sodomites in the Bongo joke!
But after what has happend to conditions of service in Australia, perhaps the low cost culprits do deserve 'Death by Bongo'. With the cruel end being perpetrated by managers with names like Mohammed or Jassim, instead of the desert island, native sodomites in the Bongo joke!
Join Date: May 2005
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If you come to Dubai with a family and you have a job flying jets in Oz then you are a goose.
Dubai is a modern form of apartheid where local citizens have all the rights and temporary residents have few.
Temporary residents, that is anyone who must requalify for a visa every three years, can only own property (and there is still some question at the federal level as to whether they own anything) in designated zones. Sort of Soweto for the middle class.
In matters of the law only locals are guaranteed fair or favoured treatment. Try flipping the bird to a large car with blacked out windows as it cuts you off in the rush to get to the next coffee house. Or try seeing justice done when you are a young women gang raped by six young men after stumbling out of a club and then having two of them get off on lack of evidence and the rest get no more than two years.
The paper today states that the UAE is officially the most dangerous place in the world to drive. I'm sorry Saudi is the worst, the UAE is next.
Even though the industrial climate in Oz is changing for pilots, try having no protection. The companies reaction to most things is 'if you don't like it leave'. That's a big call when you've already moved everyone half way round the world at considerable cost and stress. Try having an accident in an aeroplane and see how much help you get from the bosses. The last lads who tried were first sacked, then reinstated to mindless ground jobs on appeal and two years later given their positions back, although the captain became an FO. Admittedly they must take some responsibility for what happened but the systemic failures were so big we lost tribes of mice in the cheese. We have a saftey department but they can't tell us about major accidents of our own for fear of the information getting out. It's a secret you see, even to our own pilots.
With or without DECs you will be looking at quite a few years on FO's pay before command. If you have kids expect not to have much left over for the pleasure of making the sheikhs even richer men. If your a DEC you'll love it though, as long as flying 90-100 hours a month in MFF, not getting leave when you want it having to ask for permission to leave Dubai is your thing.
Otherwise it's all good, new aeroplanes, lots of different nationalities to fly with, they pay you on time within a day or two and you'll learn how admired we Aussies are by the kiwis, poms and yarpies.
Dubai is a modern form of apartheid where local citizens have all the rights and temporary residents have few.
Temporary residents, that is anyone who must requalify for a visa every three years, can only own property (and there is still some question at the federal level as to whether they own anything) in designated zones. Sort of Soweto for the middle class.
In matters of the law only locals are guaranteed fair or favoured treatment. Try flipping the bird to a large car with blacked out windows as it cuts you off in the rush to get to the next coffee house. Or try seeing justice done when you are a young women gang raped by six young men after stumbling out of a club and then having two of them get off on lack of evidence and the rest get no more than two years.
The paper today states that the UAE is officially the most dangerous place in the world to drive. I'm sorry Saudi is the worst, the UAE is next.
Even though the industrial climate in Oz is changing for pilots, try having no protection. The companies reaction to most things is 'if you don't like it leave'. That's a big call when you've already moved everyone half way round the world at considerable cost and stress. Try having an accident in an aeroplane and see how much help you get from the bosses. The last lads who tried were first sacked, then reinstated to mindless ground jobs on appeal and two years later given their positions back, although the captain became an FO. Admittedly they must take some responsibility for what happened but the systemic failures were so big we lost tribes of mice in the cheese. We have a saftey department but they can't tell us about major accidents of our own for fear of the information getting out. It's a secret you see, even to our own pilots.
With or without DECs you will be looking at quite a few years on FO's pay before command. If you have kids expect not to have much left over for the pleasure of making the sheikhs even richer men. If your a DEC you'll love it though, as long as flying 90-100 hours a month in MFF, not getting leave when you want it having to ask for permission to leave Dubai is your thing.
Otherwise it's all good, new aeroplanes, lots of different nationalities to fly with, they pay you on time within a day or two and you'll learn how admired we Aussies are by the kiwis, poms and yarpies.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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EK Email
For those interested, I got the email pasted below, today. For background, I put in a token application post Ansett collapse in 2001, but was never really serious about the sand pit. However, all of a sudden, they seem to be keen.
"I am writing to you in relation to your application to join Emirates as Flight crew. We are currently reviewing your application and to process further we require you to update in full all required details.
Please access our website at www.emiratesgroupcareers.com
Here you will find our latest requirements as well as a link to the on-line application.
Thank you for your interest in Emirates"
"I am writing to you in relation to your application to join Emirates as Flight crew. We are currently reviewing your application and to process further we require you to update in full all required details.
Please access our website at www.emiratesgroupcareers.com
Here you will find our latest requirements as well as a link to the on-line application.
Thank you for your interest in Emirates"
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
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Originally Posted by tinpis
That used to be "death by Boonga!" 
Guest
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Just recieved the following by email:
Emirates Airlines of Dubai, UAE are conducting information and simulator evaluation sessions in Australia, and one information session in Auckland during April for Captain and First Officer positions. Interested pilots may attend an open day as detailed below.
Australia Information Sessions:
Hilton Airport Hotel,
Melbourne Airport
1st April from 1330 to 1700
7th April from 1400 to 1800
Duxton Hotel
No 1 St. Georges Terrace
Perth, WA
2nd April from 1400 to 1800
Sofitel Wentworth,
61-101 Phillip Street
Sydney, NSW
3rd April from 1800-2030
Sofitel Brisbane
249 Turbot Street
Brisbane, QLD
4th April from 1130 to 1430
New Zealand Information Session:
Centra Auckland Airport
Corner of Kirkbride & Ascot Road,
Airport Oaks
Auckland
6th April from 0900-1200
Simulator evaluations are scheduled to take place in Melbourne during the first two weeks of April. Suitably qualified applicants with an active online application will be considered for a simulator evaluation. Minimum requirements may be viewed at www.emiratesgroupcareers.com where applications may be made for Captain and First Officer positions.
We look forward to meeting with you at one of our sessions.
Thank you for your interest in Emirates.
Emirates Pilot Recruitment
Emirates Airlines of Dubai, UAE are conducting information and simulator evaluation sessions in Australia, and one information session in Auckland during April for Captain and First Officer positions. Interested pilots may attend an open day as detailed below.
Australia Information Sessions:
Hilton Airport Hotel,
Melbourne Airport
1st April from 1330 to 1700
7th April from 1400 to 1800
Duxton Hotel
No 1 St. Georges Terrace
Perth, WA
2nd April from 1400 to 1800
Sofitel Wentworth,
61-101 Phillip Street
Sydney, NSW
3rd April from 1800-2030
Sofitel Brisbane
249 Turbot Street
Brisbane, QLD
4th April from 1130 to 1430
New Zealand Information Session:
Centra Auckland Airport
Corner of Kirkbride & Ascot Road,
Airport Oaks
Auckland
6th April from 0900-1200
Simulator evaluations are scheduled to take place in Melbourne during the first two weeks of April. Suitably qualified applicants with an active online application will be considered for a simulator evaluation. Minimum requirements may be viewed at www.emiratesgroupcareers.com where applications may be made for Captain and First Officer positions.
We look forward to meeting with you at one of our sessions.
Thank you for your interest in Emirates.
Emirates Pilot Recruitment