Easterns/Sunstate Q400?
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SSHHH It's a big secret... Sunstate Pilots agreed to a 7% pay rise to operate it, that’s about $6,000... Eastern Pilots EBA is STILL being negotiated, me thinks the AFAP and Qantas are in bed together i.e. they delayed Eastern's EBA for over 16 months just so they could get the easy option finished first...
To answer your question at this stage both Sunstate and Eastern are to operate the 400 but who will be first no one knows… my guess is Sunstate by an eba
To answer your question at this stage both Sunstate and Eastern are to operate the 400 but who will be first no one knows… my guess is Sunstate by an eba
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but who will be first no one knows… my guess is Sunstate by an eba
I would also have a punt that Sunnies get all 7.
I guess now thier EBA is done and dusted some info will finally be forthcoming from Commercial on routes etc. Rumours abound of some sort of announcement this week.
Although I dare say Sunnies could use up 7 aircraft just servicing their Rocky, Mackay and Gladstone runs.
Yeh, really looking forward to rocketing down through those 40deg thermals at 350kts or whatever the pint sized excuse for a real airliner does...NOT! Virgin 737 here I come.
Can't see a 72 seater doing the western runs in Qld Bloggsy.
Probably be 'rocketing down through' the same thermals as a VB73.
If Sunnies pick up MKY/CBR & BMA?
good luck to them. Looks like an awesome machine. Better than a clapped out 100 series
Probably be 'rocketing down through' the same thermals as a VB73.
If Sunnies pick up MKY/CBR & BMA?
good luck to them. Looks like an awesome machine. Better than a clapped out 100 series
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Announcements this week will come thick and fast;
69 new services a week, servicing Adelaide, Port Lincoln and Kangaroo island, as well as the above mentioned QLD flying.
7% for the 400 is a disgrace. The AFAP should hang their heads in shame for agreeing to the deal in principle and commending it to the pilot group. The excuse that the pilots voted for it and so it has nothing to do with the union holds no water. It all depends on how it's presented, and with the union talking like dummy sitting on Geoff Dixon's lap, it's little wonder blokes voted yes; They had the **** scarred out of them by their on side!
For an aircraft that's twice as big as the one currently being paid for in the EBA, and 40% faster, a 7% pay rise doesn't quite compute. But the deal north of the border's done and Sunnies have had their last bite of the cherry, so 93000 is as good as it's going to get here.
As far as ALL the aeroplanes going to SSA i don't think so. But the bluff will sit nicely in the hope that the EAA boys and girls swallow the EBA. No doubt the AFAP will be down there selling the virtues of 7%, and of course harping on about how that's what sunnies are getting! The irony of course is that there was no opportunity for the pilot groups to talk about a 400 rate prior to the deal being done, but now that 7% is struck up north, i'm sure EAA will be told they have to accept the northern rate.
That too of course is untrue, and the only hope of a decent rate being struck for the biggest aircraft the regionals are ever going to see now lies in the hands of EAA. Hopefully sense will prevail there and the 7% won't be accpeted.
69 new services a week, servicing Adelaide, Port Lincoln and Kangaroo island, as well as the above mentioned QLD flying.
7% for the 400 is a disgrace. The AFAP should hang their heads in shame for agreeing to the deal in principle and commending it to the pilot group. The excuse that the pilots voted for it and so it has nothing to do with the union holds no water. It all depends on how it's presented, and with the union talking like dummy sitting on Geoff Dixon's lap, it's little wonder blokes voted yes; They had the **** scarred out of them by their on side!
For an aircraft that's twice as big as the one currently being paid for in the EBA, and 40% faster, a 7% pay rise doesn't quite compute. But the deal north of the border's done and Sunnies have had their last bite of the cherry, so 93000 is as good as it's going to get here.
As far as ALL the aeroplanes going to SSA i don't think so. But the bluff will sit nicely in the hope that the EAA boys and girls swallow the EBA. No doubt the AFAP will be down there selling the virtues of 7%, and of course harping on about how that's what sunnies are getting! The irony of course is that there was no opportunity for the pilot groups to talk about a 400 rate prior to the deal being done, but now that 7% is struck up north, i'm sure EAA will be told they have to accept the northern rate.
That too of course is untrue, and the only hope of a decent rate being struck for the biggest aircraft the regionals are ever going to see now lies in the hands of EAA. Hopefully sense will prevail there and the 7% won't be accpeted.
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Well Written, Wayne.
Of course QF went for the weakest Link in SSA because they knew Eastern pilots have backbone aand would have rejected 7% just like they'll probably reject the shonky secret EBA deal.
No wonder Eastern's pilots are looking for a different union, The AFAP are nothing more than a bunch of F%$king QF management sympathisers.
Shame AFAP Shame
Of course QF went for the weakest Link in SSA because they knew Eastern pilots have backbone aand would have rejected 7% just like they'll probably reject the shonky secret EBA deal.
No wonder Eastern's pilots are looking for a different union, The AFAP are nothing more than a bunch of F%$king QF management sympathisers.
Shame AFAP Shame
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mmmm
First 2 - 3 Q400s to Sunnies, flooding the coastal milk run market with capacity out of BN to Cairns and down to Melb out of Newcastle.
Canberra base also on the cards with legs to Adelaide/SY/BN/Melb.
The Townsville refueller told me...
Good luck fellas.
Top airframe and speeds... hope the conditions reflect it.
First 2 - 3 Q400s to Sunnies, flooding the coastal milk run market with capacity out of BN to Cairns and down to Melb out of Newcastle.
Canberra base also on the cards with legs to Adelaide/SY/BN/Melb.
The Townsville refueller told me...
Good luck fellas.
Top airframe and speeds... hope the conditions reflect it.
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I would have thought that even though the union may have agreed in principal to 7% that would always be subject to the pilots final vote to accept or reject...? or have they already voted to accept this token amount for no good reason with no regard of self worth?
Be a very good chance to start raising the bar with award rates within our industry. I'm sure all other airlines are trying or if not should bloody be trying strongly to turn the tide of wage rot in this country. big picture...
Just interesting...
good luck!
SP
Be a very good chance to start raising the bar with award rates within our industry. I'm sure all other airlines are trying or if not should bloody be trying strongly to turn the tide of wage rot in this country. big picture...
Just interesting...
good luck!
SP
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or have they already voted to accept
Latest info talking to the engineers is first 5 400s for Sunnies.
Of course all subject on commercial actually deciding routes of which as you see there is much speculation.
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Hey Stick Pusher you say
"Be a very good chance to start raising the bar with award rates within our industry. I'm sure all other airlines are trying or if not should bloody be trying strongly to turn the tide of wage rot in this country." l totally agree with you. But what chance did the Sunnies boys have when main line boys got zip for the 800's...Jet* get zip for the A320's...main line International struggling with any deal on the A380's and all had trade offs.
Have not seen the sunnies deals as yet, but l hear no trade off and some gains...and yes only 7% extra for the 400's plus 3 by 3%.
Don't forget in Qantas eyes the 400 is the same type as the 1 2 and 300's.
So for 100 pilots l think they have raised the bar a little... Now let Eastern of 200 pilots raise it further...and before you say they have set the bench mark, where did Eastern set the bar 3/4 years ago when they signed there last EBA...then see where Virgin of 5/600 pilots, Jetstar with 300 to ~ and Qantas mainline with 2000 odd can take it. My money is on nowhere. So don't blame them so fast this time around. All pilot groups have signed EBA's over the last few years and will continue for the next few and all with new types continually coming online. Didn't see them do any better. In fact they achieved less.
The only way to achieve better l believe is one union in time and align our EBA's to fall due at the same time. But what chance of Qantas letting this happen. Lets not fight ourselves, we all know who the enemy is.
"Be a very good chance to start raising the bar with award rates within our industry. I'm sure all other airlines are trying or if not should bloody be trying strongly to turn the tide of wage rot in this country." l totally agree with you. But what chance did the Sunnies boys have when main line boys got zip for the 800's...Jet* get zip for the A320's...main line International struggling with any deal on the A380's and all had trade offs.
Have not seen the sunnies deals as yet, but l hear no trade off and some gains...and yes only 7% extra for the 400's plus 3 by 3%.
Don't forget in Qantas eyes the 400 is the same type as the 1 2 and 300's.
So for 100 pilots l think they have raised the bar a little... Now let Eastern of 200 pilots raise it further...and before you say they have set the bench mark, where did Eastern set the bar 3/4 years ago when they signed there last EBA...then see where Virgin of 5/600 pilots, Jetstar with 300 to ~ and Qantas mainline with 2000 odd can take it. My money is on nowhere. So don't blame them so fast this time around. All pilot groups have signed EBA's over the last few years and will continue for the next few and all with new types continually coming online. Didn't see them do any better. In fact they achieved less.
The only way to achieve better l believe is one union in time and align our EBA's to fall due at the same time. But what chance of Qantas letting this happen. Lets not fight ourselves, we all know who the enemy is.
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I didn't say they have set the bench mark, I'm hoping they have a chance to raise it start to trun the tide. This goes out to all pilots groups in all airlines. The new type is already coming, so they need some one to fly them i would think.
As far as Qantas goes they are stupid if they think a 400 is the same as a 200 - hello. But up to your union to push, sell it debate all that. As for Jet * dont' get me started...
Instead of getting companies to say they're paying this (ie less), we need to say they getting paid this (ie more)
What I'm saying is that from now on we all need to change, and improve on what's gone on in the past. It will take alot to turn the tide, but little by little we'll have to start heading north, not south - that's all...
Regards,
SP
As far as Qantas goes they are stupid if they think a 400 is the same as a 200 - hello. But up to your union to push, sell it debate all that. As for Jet * dont' get me started...
Instead of getting companies to say they're paying this (ie less), we need to say they getting paid this (ie more)
What I'm saying is that from now on we all need to change, and improve on what's gone on in the past. It will take alot to turn the tide, but little by little we'll have to start heading north, not south - that's all...
Regards,
SP
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Point taken Stick Pusher.
l just get a little touchy when people hang it on the Sunnies guys and gals for this or that. l worked there a few years ago before moving onto mainline. They are a great bunch of people " like most companies l guess" but there life style is better than most l have seen. That goes for main line, Jet* Virgin or who ever.
So as l said before, for a group of 100+ pilots they are doing ok.
Great life style for work and living, raised the bar a little and given nothing.
Now let all others do the same.
l just get a little touchy when people hang it on the Sunnies guys and gals for this or that. l worked there a few years ago before moving onto mainline. They are a great bunch of people " like most companies l guess" but there life style is better than most l have seen. That goes for main line, Jet* Virgin or who ever.
So as l said before, for a group of 100+ pilots they are doing ok.
Great life style for work and living, raised the bar a little and given nothing.
Now let all others do the same.
Last edited by badboiblu; 2nd Nov 2005 at 00:43.
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I can't believe there is an expectation from some of you that the smallest group of "fish" in the OZ airline's sea is to take on the management "sharks" in the BIG battle to turn everything around for all OZ pilots! Especially, after what has been done by larger groups of QF mainline pilots, VB's and jet*'s in recent years !
Are you looking for someone elses backbone to lean on or a sacrificial lamb to give the big boys some guts to do their own hard work ? Those old formula's of seats x speed = pay died in 1989. IR reform in the airlines has been taking place since then. You just didn't understand it.
Sunnies pilots are generally the happiest bunch of pilots I've ever come across. Their EBA was voted overwhelmingly in favour. New toys for old ones for the Sunnies kids, more pay to do the same thing, no conditions traded off, more jobs, more commands for F/O's. More money in paradise would be nice but not necessary and not worth the loss of the "happiness" factor.
EAA and Sunnies do the same thing but they are world's apart. Sunnies isn't in their "war". As far away as Iraq really !
Are you looking for someone elses backbone to lean on or a sacrificial lamb to give the big boys some guts to do their own hard work ? Those old formula's of seats x speed = pay died in 1989. IR reform in the airlines has been taking place since then. You just didn't understand it.
Sunnies pilots are generally the happiest bunch of pilots I've ever come across. Their EBA was voted overwhelmingly in favour. New toys for old ones for the Sunnies kids, more pay to do the same thing, no conditions traded off, more jobs, more commands for F/O's. More money in paradise would be nice but not necessary and not worth the loss of the "happiness" factor.
EAA and Sunnies do the same thing but they are world's apart. Sunnies isn't in their "war". As far away as Iraq really !
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agreed badboiblu.
b55, should it matter how big the pilot group is (look at RFDS, Pearl)? I think not. Am i'm not debating happiness or lifestyle.That's not my point.
Every pilot group should try to start to change the tide that's all. it's not an outrageous statement by any means.
"Are you looking for someone elses backbone to lean on or a sacrificial lamb to give the big boys some guts to do their own hard work" -no not at all, settle...
SP
b55, should it matter how big the pilot group is (look at RFDS, Pearl)? I think not. Am i'm not debating happiness or lifestyle.That's not my point.
Every pilot group should try to start to change the tide that's all. it's not an outrageous statement by any means.
"Are you looking for someone elses backbone to lean on or a sacrificial lamb to give the big boys some guts to do their own hard work" -no not at all, settle...
SP
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Unfortunately, i think the days of paradise are fast closing. There's been a marked change in the last 18 months, and the camp is not as happy as it once was. And i fear there's worse to come.
Anyone who can't see a single AOC coming has there head buried. Sunnies is getting dragged into the "war" whether we like it or not. And the Generals down south running the show arn't going to think twice about "easternising" northern management. And once that happens the last remaining happiness goes bye bye altogether. Just ask the Southern guys what happened.
And this isn't about line pilots, this is about **** management pilots trying to impress their corporate bosses by screwing their colleagues. Every inch that can be squeezed in so called efficiencies will be, the by product, pilot group unhappiness is acceptable. What they refuse to admit is an unhappy pilot group costs them a fortune, but because it can't be easily quantified it doesn't exist. What i can say from personal experience is that i now cost them a lot more then i used to, i still operate entirely with the SOP's but i just don't go any further than the bear essentials, and it's cost at least my salary in diversions, fuel, disruption, cancellations, late aircraft, passenger dissatisfaction etc. I'm not thrilled about doing it, but i can say that when you stop caring your life at work becomes a lot more relaxed.
"No conditions traded off", Not quite B55, but a spin that the Company and AFAP would like you to believe. At the end of the day it's simple, we could have all gotten more. And when i say that i don't mean $40000 more i just mean at least getting to 6 figures. It's a game of bluff, and we folded way too early. They came to us with a deal of 2%+2%+1% over 3 years for the 400. This was resoundingly rejected. Within 2 days the deal was 7% straight up, infinitely better. What would have another rejection gotten? Well we'll never know, but hopefully the EAA pilots will.
Anyone who can't see a single AOC coming has there head buried. Sunnies is getting dragged into the "war" whether we like it or not. And the Generals down south running the show arn't going to think twice about "easternising" northern management. And once that happens the last remaining happiness goes bye bye altogether. Just ask the Southern guys what happened.
And this isn't about line pilots, this is about **** management pilots trying to impress their corporate bosses by screwing their colleagues. Every inch that can be squeezed in so called efficiencies will be, the by product, pilot group unhappiness is acceptable. What they refuse to admit is an unhappy pilot group costs them a fortune, but because it can't be easily quantified it doesn't exist. What i can say from personal experience is that i now cost them a lot more then i used to, i still operate entirely with the SOP's but i just don't go any further than the bear essentials, and it's cost at least my salary in diversions, fuel, disruption, cancellations, late aircraft, passenger dissatisfaction etc. I'm not thrilled about doing it, but i can say that when you stop caring your life at work becomes a lot more relaxed.
"No conditions traded off", Not quite B55, but a spin that the Company and AFAP would like you to believe. At the end of the day it's simple, we could have all gotten more. And when i say that i don't mean $40000 more i just mean at least getting to 6 figures. It's a game of bluff, and we folded way too early. They came to us with a deal of 2%+2%+1% over 3 years for the 400. This was resoundingly rejected. Within 2 days the deal was 7% straight up, infinitely better. What would have another rejection gotten? Well we'll never know, but hopefully the EAA pilots will.