Flying in the face of the law - pilot bikers land fines
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As for their skills, yes, Mr. Freckle, I would rather have these guys flying the airliner than some Volvo-driving academic tw@t who sits in the over-taking lane doing 10 under the limit stroking his Quaker beard and going "hmmmm" to himself in a dreamland and smoking his pipe.
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Immaturity..... Dreadful behaviour..... Ill try to be more "Balanced"
must be hard putting on that mature serious type persona in the jump seat for hours on end!
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must be hard putting on that mature serious type persona in the jump seat for hours on end!
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Schnauzer et al,
You have missed my point entirely. I don't condone the actions of the bikers. I simply can't see how their occupation, or who employs them, is relevant to the allegations (proved to some extent) that they were speeding.
I reiterate, that to claim a speeding pilot is not safe to be a pilot beggars belief. If every one were truthful, then most would admit to speeding at some time.
Lucky for all the up and coming wannabees out there, we're all going to get an attack of the guilts and quit.
And Schnauser, how you you get me puting a monetary value on life?
Take the speed limit on the Stuart Highway. For most of the 1700km in the Territory there is no speed limit but one has to drive safely. However, cross the border into SA, same road, same traffic, same conditions, and the speed limit drops to 110.
Are you seriously telling me that 140 klicks north of the border is safe but south of the border isn't? It mightn't be legal south, but that in itself doesn't make it unsafe.
As for my character, well, I'm more than happy with it and sleep well at night.
edit for phat phingers spped instead of speed.
You have missed my point entirely. I don't condone the actions of the bikers. I simply can't see how their occupation, or who employs them, is relevant to the allegations (proved to some extent) that they were speeding.
I reiterate, that to claim a speeding pilot is not safe to be a pilot beggars belief. If every one were truthful, then most would admit to speeding at some time.
Lucky for all the up and coming wannabees out there, we're all going to get an attack of the guilts and quit.
And Schnauser, how you you get me puting a monetary value on life?
Take the speed limit on the Stuart Highway. For most of the 1700km in the Territory there is no speed limit but one has to drive safely. However, cross the border into SA, same road, same traffic, same conditions, and the speed limit drops to 110.
Are you seriously telling me that 140 klicks north of the border is safe but south of the border isn't? It mightn't be legal south, but that in itself doesn't make it unsafe.
As for my character, well, I'm more than happy with it and sleep well at night.
edit for phat phingers spped instead of speed.
Last edited by Capt Claret; 11th Oct 2005 at 14:03.
Take the speed limit on the Stuart Highway. For most of the 1700km in the Territory there is no spped limit but one has to drive safely. However, cross the border into SA, same road, same traffic, same conditions, and the speed limit drops to 110.
Are you seriously telling me that 140 klicks north of the border is safe but south of the border isn't? It mightn't be legal south, but that in itself doesn't make it unsafe.
Are you seriously telling me that 140 klicks north of the border is safe but south of the border isn't? It mightn't be legal south, but that in itself doesn't make it unsafe.
Ever.
However, far, far too many people have died from excess speed.
That's pretty much along the lines of my argument with people that can't understand that no-one has ever died from speeding.
This takes nothing away from the argument that in certain conditions 30kph more speed is not less safe. Christ, in Europe you get pulled over for going too slow on an autobahn. (yeah I know, they're built for 250+kph)
Its difficult to believe that fellow professionals believe the notion put forward here that there is somehow a link between the actions of the gents in question and their professional performance as pilots. Again on PpruNe, pilots are put unnecessarily on some pedestal with other highly respected professions so as to expose the apparent lack of virtuousness of these gents, not to mention slag off their employer. What a slow news day story if ever, as if somehow mentioning their occupation makes them deserving of increased, subjective scrutiny.
What naysayers might consider asking is WTF is society doing allowing the manufacture and purchase of bikes that can do 150kph in 2nd???
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Just to add a little weight to the NT scenario, the Stuart Highway is actually designed with safe travel at high speeds in mind. It is up to the driver to decide what speed is safe for the conditions.
However, the Constabulary will chat you if they consider you have exceeded it. This is something the do-gooders from south who want to impose an open road speed limit on us either forget or choose to ignore.
I, too, cannot understand the relevance of this issue to a person's occupational attitude. Does a Neurosurgeon who gives it a squirt through the Adelaide Hills on a Saturday afternoon necessarily approach a delicate procedure at work the following Monday with the same in mind? Maybe the outlet for having such a professional set of morals towards your vocation is to do exactly that?
K
However, the Constabulary will chat you if they consider you have exceeded it. This is something the do-gooders from south who want to impose an open road speed limit on us either forget or choose to ignore.
I, too, cannot understand the relevance of this issue to a person's occupational attitude. Does a Neurosurgeon who gives it a squirt through the Adelaide Hills on a Saturday afternoon necessarily approach a delicate procedure at work the following Monday with the same in mind? Maybe the outlet for having such a professional set of morals towards your vocation is to do exactly that?
K
Last edited by Kanga767; 11th Oct 2005 at 18:18.
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Kanga, you hit the nail on the head.
Nothing like a large capacity V-twin at high RPM to clear your head after a long week or indeed on the way to the sim!
I'm not one for those pesky outragously high reving 4 banga's though, but each to their own
Ride on,
Con
Nothing like a large capacity V-twin at high RPM to clear your head after a long week or indeed on the way to the sim!
I'm not one for those pesky outragously high reving 4 banga's though, but each to their own
Ride on,
Con
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1700 kms of Stuart Highway Darwin to Alice. Don't think so. Closer to 1000. But maybe there are 1700 kms of bitumen roads in the NT. Small point.
Top Gunners, for my money, not the end of the world, but somewhat irresponsible to my way of thinking. 30, 40 or even 50 over the limit on a freeway is no big deal although illegal, but 30+ over the limit on Queens Road is downright stupid, immature and irresponsible.
No doubt enjoying celebrity status in VB though, and maybe even mentioned on the PA's by those oh so stupid Fa's.
Top Gunners, for my money, not the end of the world, but somewhat irresponsible to my way of thinking. 30, 40 or even 50 over the limit on a freeway is no big deal although illegal, but 30+ over the limit on Queens Road is downright stupid, immature and irresponsible.
No doubt enjoying celebrity status in VB though, and maybe even mentioned on the PA's by those oh so stupid Fa's.
Thread Starter
For those of you who can't seem to fathom why the media has given this so much attention, it's really pretty simple to see why they've done so.
Firstly, the two offenders have something in common - they are both skippers for Virgin Blue. I'm sure if it was a couple of brain surgeons from Prince Alfred Hospital in Melbourne their occupation would also have been mentioned. A pair of school teachers or a couple of accountants from KPMG probably also.
Secondly, and some of you may find this hard to believe, but the public actually likes to think those up the front of an aircraft are reasonably responsible human beings. Much the same way people will always ask you at the pub, with a beer in your hand, "So how long do you have to wait before you can go flying?".
Incidentally, there was a front page story in the Sydney Morning Herald only a few weeks back, about a top notch surgeon from St Vincents Hospital who got busted for drugs on the Gold Coast. Now, 30km/h over the speed limit is not in the same ball park as a drug offence, but the message is the same:
The public sees a contradiction between a surgeon saving lives and then going out and damaging his own.
The same way they see a contradiction between a couple of pilots who, when at work, have safety as their no.1 priority, but are willing to put their own (and others) lives at risk on a motorbike. I understand the relative risk of their activity has been discussed on here, but joe public isn't to know that.
Obviously, if either of these two had been busted individually, their occupation or background would most likely have never made the press. But link the two together and it's a whole different kettle of fish. And the fact that the two were riding together only goes to show that the act was perhaps pre-meditated and therefore reckless.
TL
Firstly, the two offenders have something in common - they are both skippers for Virgin Blue. I'm sure if it was a couple of brain surgeons from Prince Alfred Hospital in Melbourne their occupation would also have been mentioned. A pair of school teachers or a couple of accountants from KPMG probably also.
Secondly, and some of you may find this hard to believe, but the public actually likes to think those up the front of an aircraft are reasonably responsible human beings. Much the same way people will always ask you at the pub, with a beer in your hand, "So how long do you have to wait before you can go flying?".
Incidentally, there was a front page story in the Sydney Morning Herald only a few weeks back, about a top notch surgeon from St Vincents Hospital who got busted for drugs on the Gold Coast. Now, 30km/h over the speed limit is not in the same ball park as a drug offence, but the message is the same:
The public sees a contradiction between a surgeon saving lives and then going out and damaging his own.
The same way they see a contradiction between a couple of pilots who, when at work, have safety as their no.1 priority, but are willing to put their own (and others) lives at risk on a motorbike. I understand the relative risk of their activity has been discussed on here, but joe public isn't to know that.
Obviously, if either of these two had been busted individually, their occupation or background would most likely have never made the press. But link the two together and it's a whole different kettle of fish. And the fact that the two were riding together only goes to show that the act was perhaps pre-meditated and therefore reckless.
TL
If you agree that 'speeding' generally describes the driving of a vehicle in excess of the posted speed limit, then it is difficult to differentiate between 'excess speed' and 'speeding' - many people have died because of speeding. Driving off the road, missing a corner, sliding off a wet road can all be caused by excessive speed or speeding.
You show a good example of that in you last sentence above. It was utterly irrelevent as to what the speed limit was on said wet road. They crashed from excess speed, not speeding.
It's exactly the same for every case you can come up with.
Were the two Virgin Blue captains wearing their uniforms underneath their bomber jackets?
Reason I ask, the incidents I have heard of involving airline crew and speeding, including a serious motorbike offence where one of two pilots left a police pursuit car in it's wake, certain occupational details were left out- for example officer declares in court " we lost Bill Bloggs, an airport worker, whilst our pursuit car was doing 160kph, there was still considerable breakaway speed by the motorcyclist "
So, did these boys have their uniforms on or quickly volunteer, similar to what you hear at the Hamo', their pilot status?
Mr Buzzy
Quoting your previous comments, about one of these blokes who was a Roulette for a day, was keeping with the absurd Aero Club image some of you over zealous VB pilots present- " the VB chap mentioned is one of the best operators in the game ". It was a poignant statement to make professionally, something that is more appropriate at an Aero Club bar than a comment about an airline pilot, granted your's and VB's lofty standards.
Perhaps, your PR Dept could run with this one as a continual saga in the Voyeur Magazine- VB Captain a Roulette for a day, VB Captain Wayne Gardiner for a day & so on!
Reason I ask, the incidents I have heard of involving airline crew and speeding, including a serious motorbike offence where one of two pilots left a police pursuit car in it's wake, certain occupational details were left out- for example officer declares in court " we lost Bill Bloggs, an airport worker, whilst our pursuit car was doing 160kph, there was still considerable breakaway speed by the motorcyclist "
So, did these boys have their uniforms on or quickly volunteer, similar to what you hear at the Hamo', their pilot status?
Mr Buzzy
Quoting your previous comments, about one of these blokes who was a Roulette for a day, was keeping with the absurd Aero Club image some of you over zealous VB pilots present- " the VB chap mentioned is one of the best operators in the game ". It was a poignant statement to make professionally, something that is more appropriate at an Aero Club bar than a comment about an airline pilot, granted your's and VB's lofty standards.
Perhaps, your PR Dept could run with this one as a continual saga in the Voyeur Magazine- VB Captain a Roulette for a day, VB Captain Wayne Gardiner for a day & so on!
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It seems to me there are two camps contributing to this discussion - those who are VB wannabees (and the ex AN cantbees) - and the rest.
The sentence has been passed, which imo was in keeping with the demeanour.
Pilots are people - some like fast bikes, fast women, and fast food. None of those, or the way they use them outside their workplace is any reflection on the way they discharge their duty at work. I know quite a few F/A's who are lousy housekeepers.
End of story.
The sentence has been passed, which imo was in keeping with the demeanour.
Pilots are people - some like fast bikes, fast women, and fast food. None of those, or the way they use them outside their workplace is any reflection on the way they discharge their duty at work. I know quite a few F/A's who are lousy housekeepers.
End of story.
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Who gives a flying fcuk what their occupation is.
When you have rushed out the front door in response to a crashing noise and find your neighbour dead, after attempting to reverse into a 50kph street to be hit by a big arse bike that wasn't there when he checked (passenger survived) doing
it is of little consequence and even less consolation if indeed he had been an "airline captain".
The other biker with whom he was having a little race kept on going but was eventually found by the police. He got off.
The biker now a hemi will spend the rest of his life in full care at the expense of the Medicare system. The drivers family have had to get on with thier lives as best they can.
I would fight for the Medicare system or something like it to my last breath, but we need to look at who pays for the consequences of someones adrenalin rush.
mrs gaunty and sundry friends and rellys work in the medical profession, ask them about the results of just being a biker, responsible or not who come unglued through their own fault or not.
The sickening trauma and neurological and orthopaedic results that work there way through long term rehab to wind up in full time care for the rest of their unnatural lives.
There is a strong case for simply outlawing big arse bikes as a form of transport or at the least denying them uninsured medical treatment.
Put the cost where it belongs and lets see how much bikers are prepared to pay for their rush.
And yes I once owned a Honda 750cc when they were big bikes, but then I had children and good think about my responsibilities.
When you have rushed out the front door in response to a crashing noise and find your neighbour dead, after attempting to reverse into a 50kph street to be hit by a big arse bike that wasn't there when he checked (passenger survived) doing
he accepted he was speeding, but "not in excess of 100kmh",
it is of little consequence and even less consolation if indeed he had been an "airline captain".The other biker with whom he was having a little race kept on going but was eventually found by the police. He got off.
The biker now a hemi will spend the rest of his life in full care at the expense of the Medicare system. The drivers family have had to get on with thier lives as best they can.
I would fight for the Medicare system or something like it to my last breath, but we need to look at who pays for the consequences of someones adrenalin rush.
mrs gaunty and sundry friends and rellys work in the medical profession, ask them about the results of just being a biker, responsible or not who come unglued through their own fault or not.
The sickening trauma and neurological and orthopaedic results that work there way through long term rehab to wind up in full time care for the rest of their unnatural lives.
There is a strong case for simply outlawing big arse bikes as a form of transport or at the least denying them uninsured medical treatment.
Put the cost where it belongs and lets see how much bikers are prepared to pay for their rush.
And yes I once owned a Honda 750cc when they were big bikes, but then I had children and good think about my responsibilities.
Bottums Up
ys120fz
If your going to contradict on a matter of fact , it's best to get your facts straight.
You wrote,
Where as I wrote,
Have a look on a road map. Darwin to Alice is near as dammit to 1500 km. It's either just over or just under 200km from Alice to the NT/SA border. So, 1500 + 200 = 1700.
If your going to contradict on a matter of fact , it's best to get your facts straight.
You wrote,
1700 kms of Stuart Highway Darwin to Alice. Don't think so. Closer to 1000.
Take the speed limit on the Stuart Highway. For most of the 1700km in the Territory ...
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Actually there are three camps here:
- Transition Layer, who steadfastly rises above and won't admit his own private shame at helping name two guys who are guilty of a traffic infraction. Which, details aside, I'd wager everyone of us has also done at some time, TL included.
-Schnauzer who, with TL, seems to have a duopoly on the moral high ground and who also refuses to let it go, having come 4 pages already with his preaching.
- The rest of us who can't understand what this speeding incident has to do with the two guys being airline pilots.
I don't know what exactly TL's purpose was in posting this other than perhaps logging a "pprune scoop". So what is the real topic of the thread? The court has already found them guilty so why does TL need to further crucify them here?
Why did this receive so much attention, TL? Because, TL, the fact they are airline pilots makes the story that little bit juicier for the masses to consume. Nothing more. Even a Virgin Blue passenger could see that, TL, why can't you.
And why isn't TL also condemning the police, whose high-speed driving has also been "responsible" for many deaths over the years. I know a cop who died when the idiot she was with did something well outside of his skill-set and crashed the car.
Now in the pilots' case, the cop admitted to accelerating to 160km/h on the very same street as the two speeding motorcyclists. This is another 20km/h above the reported speed of the offenders and, as has been pointed out, the braking ability of a car is considerably different to that of a motorcycle. "Won't anyone think of the children???"
Why didn't he abandon the pursuit, as is the case in many other pursuits initiated by "sensible" officers?
Could it be that those cops judged that in the given circumstances the speed in their heavy V8 car was not "dangerous"? But that would mean that the motorcyclists, who were actually travelling slower than the cops, were also not driving in a "dangerous" manner!!
This might further be supported by the fact the judge dismissed the charges of
Come on guys, Schnauzer, TL, etc, read the article again and think a little more.
.
- Transition Layer, who steadfastly rises above and won't admit his own private shame at helping name two guys who are guilty of a traffic infraction. Which, details aside, I'd wager everyone of us has also done at some time, TL included.
-Schnauzer who, with TL, seems to have a duopoly on the moral high ground and who also refuses to let it go, having come 4 pages already with his preaching.
- The rest of us who can't understand what this speeding incident has to do with the two guys being airline pilots.
I don't know what exactly TL's purpose was in posting this other than perhaps logging a "pprune scoop". So what is the real topic of the thread? The court has already found them guilty so why does TL need to further crucify them here?
Why did this receive so much attention, TL? Because, TL, the fact they are airline pilots makes the story that little bit juicier for the masses to consume. Nothing more. Even a Virgin Blue passenger could see that, TL, why can't you.
And why isn't TL also condemning the police, whose high-speed driving has also been "responsible" for many deaths over the years. I know a cop who died when the idiot she was with did something well outside of his skill-set and crashed the car.
Now in the pilots' case, the cop admitted to accelerating to 160km/h on the very same street as the two speeding motorcyclists. This is another 20km/h above the reported speed of the offenders and, as has been pointed out, the braking ability of a car is considerably different to that of a motorcycle. "Won't anyone think of the children???"
Why didn't he abandon the pursuit, as is the case in many other pursuits initiated by "sensible" officers?
Could it be that those cops judged that in the given circumstances the speed in their heavy V8 car was not "dangerous"? But that would mean that the motorcyclists, who were actually travelling slower than the cops, were also not driving in a "dangerous" manner!!
This might further be supported by the fact the judge dismissed the charges of
(driving) at a speed dangerous (and) driving in a manner dangerous
.
Last edited by DeBurcs; 12th Oct 2005 at 08:57.
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DeBurcs
You got that right, don't get me started on the cops and pursuits, it's taken over 30 years to get it through their heads that pursuit is the least effective and most dangerous way of dealing with them. It seems they have always called off the pursuit just before the chasee wraps himself around an immovable object.
We lost another of our finest the other day when he got creamed by an innocent driver behind as he apparently decided to do a 180 on a country road we presume to chase someone going in the opposite direction. We'll never know for sure, but we are having way too many.
And then the plod get on the TV and tell us they are very disappointed with our driving, we are all lunatics and "we will get you"
You got that right, don't get me started on the cops and pursuits, it's taken over 30 years to get it through their heads that pursuit is the least effective and most dangerous way of dealing with them. It seems they have always called off the pursuit just before the chasee wraps himself around an immovable object.
We lost another of our finest the other day when he got creamed by an innocent driver behind as he apparently decided to do a 180 on a country road we presume to chase someone going in the opposite direction. We'll never know for sure, but we are having way too many.
And then the plod get on the TV and tell us they are very disappointed with our driving, we are all lunatics and "we will get you"