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You are correct dunerider, the SCABS are a minority group.
Of the original pilots, only a miserable 22% scabbed.
The rest was made up of previous rejects, early retirees, medical failures, and overseas blow-ins.
Why you would wish to
is beyond me, because it was on YOUR misfortune that these "previous rejects, early retirees, medical failures, and overseas blow-ins" were NOW able to secure themselves a position on the Australian market, whereas previously they were declared rejects by the very SAME airlines that would now welcome them with open alms.
The SCABS of 1989 are becoming a very defined (minority) group, as their numbers decline due to old age, and various other causes.
Their names have been inscribed indelibly in the MINDS of those they directly screwed.
INdirectly, they f
ed ALL of you who came after them.
[note to Centaurus... No Woomera ever APPLIED during the Dispute!
S.G.
Of the original pilots, only a miserable 22% scabbed.
The rest was made up of previous rejects, early retirees, medical failures, and overseas blow-ins.
Why you would wish to
give them a wave and wish them well
The SCABS of 1989 are becoming a very defined (minority) group, as their numbers decline due to old age, and various other causes.
Their names have been inscribed indelibly in the MINDS of those they directly screwed.
INdirectly, they f
ed ALL of you who came after them.[note to Centaurus... No Woomera ever APPLIED during the Dispute!
S.G.
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HI'er: Are you a pilot or a brickies labourer?! You sure sound like the latter, rather than an educated professional who gains employment through his qualifications.
You may think they it for all but this is what I think:
You it for a fish exporting company (Gautheaume Bay Fisheries) in Kalbarri. It employed around 40 people (sole bread winners for families) supporting 140 family members. When you went on strike, the company went backrupt. You are responsible for putting those families on welfare, and you it for all those Kalbarri families afterwards.
What would you like to say to them? You can go to the restaurant that is run from the location of the former fish export company. You can read what they think of you - it's written on a big sign on the wall.
It's: " Finlays Fresh Fish BBQ " , Kalbarri WA. Do drop in, and tell the staff you are one of the '89ers.
You may think they
it for all but this is what I think:You
it for a fish exporting company (Gautheaume Bay Fisheries) in Kalbarri. It employed around 40 people (sole bread winners for families) supporting 140 family members. When you went on strike, the company went backrupt. You are responsible for putting those families on welfare, and you it for all those Kalbarri families afterwards. What would you like to say to them? You can go to the restaurant that is run from the location of the former fish export company. You can read what they think of you - it's written on a big sign on the wall.
It's: " Finlays Fresh Fish BBQ " , Kalbarri WA. Do drop in, and tell the staff you are one of the '89ers.
Last edited by Pass-A-Frozo; 8th Oct 2005 at 13:40.
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Thanks P-A-F, I have been both - simultaneously.
Unfortunately, I'm not personally aware of the situation you claim has been affected, but you are free to post.
Based on INDIVIDUAL merit, each of us will determine our recourse to action
Unfortunately, I'm not personally aware of the situation you claim has been affected, but you are free to post.
Based on INDIVIDUAL merit, each of us will determine our recourse to action
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I'm not surprised you haven't heard of it. Most union members don't think about it when they strike and don't want to hear afterwards. They just think of their own selfish circumstances. Surely you knew by crippling national infrastructure you were costing hundreds of millions of dollars [no, not the airlines money, but EVERYONE else in Australia].
Here's the details. Maybe you could visit and help put some money back in there pockets by dining there.
Here's the details. Maybe you could visit and help put some money back in there pockets by dining there.
Finlay's Fish BBQ - open daily 11.30am – 2pm and 5.30 – 8.30pm
website: n/a - email: n/a
Finlays Fish BBQ - Magee Crescent, Kalbarri Western Australia 6536
Phone +61 8 99371260 - Fax n/a
Finlay's Fish BBQ is now a tourist attraction of Kalbarri. Known world wide for its atmosphere, extensive selection of seafood at a great price it is recommended that you don’t leave Kalbarri without checking out Finlay’s Fish BBQ.
website: n/a - email: n/a
Finlays Fish BBQ - Magee Crescent, Kalbarri Western Australia 6536
Phone +61 8 99371260 - Fax n/a
Finlay's Fish BBQ is now a tourist attraction of Kalbarri. Known world wide for its atmosphere, extensive selection of seafood at a great price it is recommended that you don’t leave Kalbarri without checking out Finlay’s Fish BBQ.
Last edited by Pass-A-Frozo; 8th Oct 2005 at 14:02.
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Just so we get our terms correct.
When a Joint Managing Director says “I vill shut down ze Airline”, and does - this is called a Lockout.
I doubt very much that the innocent people of Kalbarri were greatly affected by six days of airline operations during business hours. These people and all the other innocent ones were victims of some very nasty people, none of whom flew aeroplanes (for more than ten hours, anyway).
As pilots, and especially Captains, our plan is to operate the aircraft safely. When things turn to $hit we operate the aircraft safely. “Continuing along the same path to sure destruction as a consequence of running out of fuel”, would be changing the plan.
Once again, relax737, I am having trouble with your logic.
And, changing one’s mind, and breaking a commitment are not the same thing.
When a Joint Managing Director says “I vill shut down ze Airline”, and does - this is called a Lockout.
I doubt very much that the innocent people of Kalbarri were greatly affected by six days of airline operations during business hours. These people and all the other innocent ones were victims of some very nasty people, none of whom flew aeroplanes (for more than ten hours, anyway).
As pilots, and especially Captains, our plan is to operate the aircraft safely. When things turn to $hit we operate the aircraft safely. “Continuing along the same path to sure destruction as a consequence of running out of fuel”, would be changing the plan.
Once again, relax737, I am having trouble with your logic.
And, changing one’s mind, and breaking a commitment are not the same thing.
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When you all resign at once it's called Economic blackmail.
Don't worry, economic studies showed that you only cost Australia around $1 billion, substantial job losses and the recession to begin 2 years earlier than our trading partners.
Don't worry, economic studies showed that you only cost Australia around $1 billion, substantial job losses and the recession to begin 2 years earlier than our trading partners.
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If there was a strike, then what you say would be correct. However there wasn’t which makes it incorrect.
Perhaps we could look at blackmail as a threat to take everything from a young family and throw them into the street.
The resignations protected us from those previously mentioned.
The damage to the country came from ordinary citizens being denied their basic democratic and constitutional rights.
Perhaps we could look at blackmail as a threat to take everything from a young family and throw them into the street.
The resignations protected us from those previously mentioned.
The damage to the country came from ordinary citizens being denied their basic democratic and constitutional rights.
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democratic and constitutional rights
There are also ethical and moral questions that arise from a group of people willing to get a 30% pay grab at any expense. (including a massive expense to the general community at large).
Surely you would agree even if we take the "pilots working office hours 'Strike' " example there were costs to the community in general. Including the poor and truely needy.
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Perhaps, Pass-a-Frozo, we should switch to MSN. Are you in The States as well because it’s around three in the morning EST in Australia?
Here we can agree. We are both for rights. The airlines and other companies do have the right to choose who they employ. In our society which we would like to think is based on fairness and equity there are certain checks and balances or rights.
The particular ones I refer to are the constitutional right to freely associate and the democratic right to negotiate directly with an employer.
A little less than seven years before the event I was employed. Obviously I was suitable. It could be argued that in the ensuing years I became even more suitable as I gained one turboprop and two jet endorsements.
At the time we speak of I was also suitable, but only if I forewent my rights. This was spelled out very clearly in a letter from the then Prime Minister.
I believed this was wrong and not the way things should be done in Australia.
You seem to differentiate between groups with your next point. Is it OK for some to get this but not others?
A few months before the troubles Sir Peter Abeles granted himself a 36% pay increase, a few months after the politicians did the same, this time 32%
Is it right for businessmen and politicians to get a 30% pay grab but not wage and salary earners?
You may also recall the vitriolic indignation of the one with 36% in his back pocket together with the other planning his 32%.
There were costs to the community in general associated with the pilots working office hours. To put this in perspective we could compare it with the maritime strike that was occurring at the same time.
My personal opinion is that domestic aircraft operating to reduced schedule produced far less grief to the general population, including the poor and truly needy, than a blockade of the nation’s vital exports and imports.
You could take this further and see how a small independent association, that steadfastly refused to join the ACTU, was treated compared to those backed by Kelty.
Here we can agree. We are both for rights. The airlines and other companies do have the right to choose who they employ. In our society which we would like to think is based on fairness and equity there are certain checks and balances or rights.
The particular ones I refer to are the constitutional right to freely associate and the democratic right to negotiate directly with an employer.
A little less than seven years before the event I was employed. Obviously I was suitable. It could be argued that in the ensuing years I became even more suitable as I gained one turboprop and two jet endorsements.
At the time we speak of I was also suitable, but only if I forewent my rights. This was spelled out very clearly in a letter from the then Prime Minister.
I believed this was wrong and not the way things should be done in Australia.
You seem to differentiate between groups with your next point. Is it OK for some to get this but not others?
A few months before the troubles Sir Peter Abeles granted himself a 36% pay increase, a few months after the politicians did the same, this time 32%
Is it right for businessmen and politicians to get a 30% pay grab but not wage and salary earners?
You may also recall the vitriolic indignation of the one with 36% in his back pocket together with the other planning his 32%.
There were costs to the community in general associated with the pilots working office hours. To put this in perspective we could compare it with the maritime strike that was occurring at the same time.
My personal opinion is that domestic aircraft operating to reduced schedule produced far less grief to the general population, including the poor and truly needy, than a blockade of the nation’s vital exports and imports.
You could take this further and see how a small independent association, that steadfastly refused to join the ACTU, was treated compared to those backed by Kelty.
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So... a quick question or two to people on both sides.
Are things better for the pilot group within Australian aviation post 89 when compared with conditions before 89?
If your answer is in the negative, do you believe conditions would be better today had a single union continued to represent Australian pilots?
Who would you say is most to blame for the fact that a single union no longer represents the majority of Australian pilots?
PaF, I was there in 89 and I was not on strike for one single day - and I was available at two hours notice to return to work just as soon as I was allowed to have union representation, something that remains a right to most of not all Australian workers to this day -- but not to airline pilots in 1989.
Are things better for the pilot group within Australian aviation post 89 when compared with conditions before 89?
If your answer is in the negative, do you believe conditions would be better today had a single union continued to represent Australian pilots?
Who would you say is most to blame for the fact that a single union no longer represents the majority of Australian pilots?
PaF, I was there in 89 and I was not on strike for one single day - and I was available at two hours notice to return to work just as soon as I was allowed to have union representation, something that remains a right to most of not all Australian workers to this day -- but not to airline pilots in 1989.
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Perhaps, Pass-a-Frozo, we should switch to MSN. Are you in The States as well because it’s around three in the morning EST in Australia?
You seem to differentiate between groups with your next point. Is it OK for some to get this but not others?
[quote]Is it right for businessmen and politicians to get a 30% pay grab but not wage and salary earners?
You may also recall the vitriolic indignation of the one with 36% in his back pocket together with the other planning his 32%.
/quote]
So what? Just because someone with a totally different skill set , in a totally different field gets a big pay rise you are entitled to it?? That's not how it works!
Equally, just because someone gets away with a disgracefully expensive strike, you think you morally can? Ha!
So let me get your logic right? Some maritime workers cost others more money that you did, so it's ok?
PaF, I was there in 89 and I was not on strike for one single day - and I was available at two hours notice to return to work just as soon as I was allowed to have union representation, something that remains a right to most of not all Australian workers to this day -- but not to airline pilots in 1989.
All I'm saying is you '89 bunch post on here like you are a bunch of hard done by angels. You cost hundreds and thousands of Australian's their jobs by your actions, through your greedy selfishness. Yet you have the gaul to abuse people for taking a job? You lot set the ball rollling, you lot have to take responsibility for your own actions. It's always "someone elses fault" isn't it.
It's the boss's for getting a big pay rise. It's the airlines for telling you to get bent. It's the government's fault. etc. etc. Christ, a LABOR government didn't even support you!
So then if you should be able to have the right to strike regardless of cost to others then you probably support police and defence going on strike??
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Pass-A-Frozo
For no other reason but to keep the logic tidy;
assumes that their was only one participant in the "battle" and that the "greedy selfishness" of the pilots was the prime motivation. They would agree that there was a bit of that amongst some but as I understand it better rostering and their utilisation was the core of the issue.
You cant have a "fight" without two (2) adversaries.
The returnees and blow ins went back for more money than they were previously and as I understand it on the same pattern that the AFAP had been trying to negotiate for several years.
What was the motivation of the airlines and Govt that was so desperate that the former refused to negotiate and the latter suborned the Constitution and trashed several dozen laws and statutes.
Watching from the sidelines, and yes I was desperately affected, it was clear there were more than several points at which the airlines and Government would have been able to negotiate a way out.
But all I was seeing was the PM and his benefactor Abeles playing to the lumpen proletariat.
It was always within their power to end it honourably and quickly, but hey, it was never about either of those terms. It was a labour dispute, under a Labor Government, why were they not able to sort it out.
If you want to start laying blame for the economic impact on Australia, then you have to start at least from a 50/50 position, with the proportion increasing towards the airlines and Government from the day they started issuing workers visas as carpenters and bricklayers of which there was and still is a chronic shortage, to allow the blow ins "legal" access.
DIMIA is a bit of a train smash at the moment but one would wonder how they countenanced it at the time without demur, or if they did, who monstered them.
BTW the recession we had to have, was not triggered by it, you should look to Mr Keating and his agenda for that.
So if you are going to put the AFAP in the dock and charge them with economic terrorism, then you must also put Hawke and Abeles in there with them.
The returnees can not claim ignorance of the surrounding labor, social and democratic issues at stake and the blow ins in denying or ignoring the same issues by participating in what can only be immigration fraud to gain entry and a job, stand, IMHO, doubly accused.
Certainly were I to gain access to another country for economic benefit in similar circumstances and by such means, I should have no reason to complain nor could I offer any mitigation, were I to suffer disapprobation at the hands of those whom I had displaced. I would stay very quiet and very much under the radar.
There is no other logical construct possible on the facts.
For no other reason but to keep the logic tidy;
You cost hundreds and thousands of Australian's their jobs by your actions, through your greedy selfishness.
All I'm saying is you '89 bunch post on here like you are a bunch of hard done by angels. You cost hundreds and thousands of Australian's their jobs by your actions, through your greedy selfishness.
You cant have a "fight" without two (2) adversaries.
The returnees and blow ins went back for more money than they were previously and as I understand it on the same pattern that the AFAP had been trying to negotiate for several years.
What was the motivation of the airlines and Govt that was so desperate that the former refused to negotiate and the latter suborned the Constitution and trashed several dozen laws and statutes.
Watching from the sidelines, and yes I was desperately affected, it was clear there were more than several points at which the airlines and Government would have been able to negotiate a way out.
But all I was seeing was the PM and his benefactor Abeles playing to the lumpen proletariat.
It was always within their power to end it honourably and quickly, but hey, it was never about either of those terms. It was a labour dispute, under a Labor Government, why were they not able to sort it out.
If you want to start laying blame for the economic impact on Australia, then you have to start at least from a 50/50 position, with the proportion increasing towards the airlines and Government from the day they started issuing workers visas as carpenters and bricklayers of which there was and still is a chronic shortage, to allow the blow ins "legal" access.
DIMIA is a bit of a train smash at the moment but one would wonder how they countenanced it at the time without demur, or if they did, who monstered them.
BTW the recession we had to have, was not triggered by it, you should look to Mr Keating and his agenda for that.
So if you are going to put the AFAP in the dock and charge them with economic terrorism, then you must also put Hawke and Abeles in there with them.
The returnees can not claim ignorance of the surrounding labor, social and democratic issues at stake and the blow ins in denying or ignoring the same issues by participating in what can only be immigration fraud to gain entry and a job, stand, IMHO, doubly accused.
Certainly were I to gain access to another country for economic benefit in similar circumstances and by such means, I should have no reason to complain nor could I offer any mitigation, were I to suffer disapprobation at the hands of those whom I had displaced. I would stay very quiet and very much under the radar.
There is no other logical construct possible on the facts.
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Look what's wrong with you blokes, what part of this don't you understand, you keep going on about Ables, Hawke, scabs etc, amazing you don't metion Oldmeadow and Coysh but they were huge in the your demise in '89... and what pay rises they did or did not give themselves, its all irrelevant, what you have to understand is that the pilots were not in a position to dictate to anyone any more, time was up.
Hawke was out to get the AFAP, as they would not be part of the ACTU and wanted to negotiate outside the accord, I mean who sat there in the old parliament house in CBR all having a wonderfull Hawke inspired talk-fest, Ables and all the leaders in big business, who are in a position to give themselves big payrises anytime they want, like it or not.
The airlines knew, that under deregulation that was looming the work practices that were in place were not sustainable, in the future negaotiations with the AFAP were going to be difficult as the work conditions would have to be wound back to gain greater productivity to be able to compete with any new starts.
The AFAP for years now have lived in a false world of their own making, bludgeoning the airlines whenever they wanted and always won, you would have noticed that the negotiations where done on the divide and rule just like the bosses are accused of, that is Ansett and TAA negotiations were always apart, so as trouble was looming for TAA for instance, Ansett was making hay, then it would be Ansett's turn and TAA would get the advantage, and so it went on.
Yes there was a wage explosion among the elite of the professional world and judges, doctors, bussiness leaders etc gave themselves large pay rises, so the AFAP thought we will do the same, notably that deregulation is looming and this might be our last chance to get a descent payrise and thus blundered into a major conflict with everybody.
The trouble with you blokes that call others scabs, is that you put your selves on some peddestal, that you are be all and end all, pilots to these wheelers and dealers are just fodder, no more that a component that makes money for them, and you as that component if you want to survive better keep re inventing yourself or otherwise you become uncompetitive, this is what companies do but the average boofhead does not see or understand that.
All you scab haters seem to think that if no one returned then you would have been ok like Alice in Wonderland, but that is not the real world, like I keep saying others see the world diffrently, its amazing that you think that way, and you all really knew, that some you would always go back.
There will never be another '89 type strike again, AIPA at Qantas would never do that as they know the same thing would happen as in '89, there would be **** load of guys that would just go back, do you think that this great brotherhood exists in VB or Jet*, you better belive NOT as it never was there in the first place, it was always an uneasy truce while the going was good, but built on intimidation and thuggery.
You can mince it, slice it or dice it, but the guys that run the corporations and this country call the shots, its just the way it is, pilots are just employees, to be and mix it with the big guys then you know what you have to do, then and only then will you see it from their side.
Hawke was out to get the AFAP, as they would not be part of the ACTU and wanted to negotiate outside the accord, I mean who sat there in the old parliament house in CBR all having a wonderfull Hawke inspired talk-fest, Ables and all the leaders in big business, who are in a position to give themselves big payrises anytime they want, like it or not.
The airlines knew, that under deregulation that was looming the work practices that were in place were not sustainable, in the future negaotiations with the AFAP were going to be difficult as the work conditions would have to be wound back to gain greater productivity to be able to compete with any new starts.
The AFAP for years now have lived in a false world of their own making, bludgeoning the airlines whenever they wanted and always won, you would have noticed that the negotiations where done on the divide and rule just like the bosses are accused of, that is Ansett and TAA negotiations were always apart, so as trouble was looming for TAA for instance, Ansett was making hay, then it would be Ansett's turn and TAA would get the advantage, and so it went on.
Yes there was a wage explosion among the elite of the professional world and judges, doctors, bussiness leaders etc gave themselves large pay rises, so the AFAP thought we will do the same, notably that deregulation is looming and this might be our last chance to get a descent payrise and thus blundered into a major conflict with everybody.
The trouble with you blokes that call others scabs, is that you put your selves on some peddestal, that you are be all and end all, pilots to these wheelers and dealers are just fodder, no more that a component that makes money for them, and you as that component if you want to survive better keep re inventing yourself or otherwise you become uncompetitive, this is what companies do but the average boofhead does not see or understand that.
All you scab haters seem to think that if no one returned then you would have been ok like Alice in Wonderland, but that is not the real world, like I keep saying others see the world diffrently, its amazing that you think that way, and you all really knew, that some you would always go back.
There will never be another '89 type strike again, AIPA at Qantas would never do that as they know the same thing would happen as in '89, there would be **** load of guys that would just go back, do you think that this great brotherhood exists in VB or Jet*, you better belive NOT as it never was there in the first place, it was always an uneasy truce while the going was good, but built on intimidation and thuggery.
You can mince it, slice it or dice it, but the guys that run the corporations and this country call the shots, its just the way it is, pilots are just employees, to be and mix it with the big guys then you know what you have to do, then and only then will you see it from their side.
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Gaunty:
Oh absolutely. Don't get my position wrong. It does take two to tango, however I'm yet to see over the years any '89ers take responsibility for what they did. I think the way to address that is to place some blame right at their feet. They are always attacking the people who returned to work / applied for jobs.
I do admit it was not totally responsible for triggering the recession, however it was a major contributing factor. Anything that shocks the economy to the tune of $1 billion has to!
I'm still curious what an '89er would like to say to Finlay's Fresh Fish BBQ in Kalbarri?
you want to start laying blame for the economic impact on Australia, then you have to start at least from a 50/50 position
I do admit it was not totally responsible for triggering the recession, however it was a major contributing factor. Anything that shocks the economy to the tune of $1 billion has to!
I'm still curious what an '89er would like to say to Finlay's Fresh Fish BBQ in Kalbarri?
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Pass-A-Frozo
Hmmm Kalbarri.
I have been going there since 1956, Hec Mainwaring had what is now I think Lambs cottages after the Sangsters with whom we used to go bought it from young Hec. It was just a bunch of fishermans shacks with the "road" from Ajana little more than a goat track.
They were still using the old lugger type cray boats with the first displacement planing types a curiosity
Went to school with young Browny.
And yes I have pics of young gaunty holding up 12 lb tailer nearly as big as he that we would usually throw back as tiddlers..
From where I come from in this world and which I admit is probably an Australian world no longer recognisable (and we are IMHO the worse for it) I would like to think that the response would have after a bit of straight forward Aussie dialogue, been total dismay.
Dismay that Australia whose union movement started in the same outback environment by the shearers for a fair days work, pay and conditions was treating "my fellow Australians"
so.
Dismay that the Murdoch owned press was pressing the anti case for an airline of which he was half owner.
Outback Aussies have never trusted the big city "press".
Basically the lack of a fair go.
You're right if you control the media and the owners control the Government then the pilots and anyone else were on a hiding to nothing.
It was a very very scary time for Oz.
Had the workers at Finlay's Fresh Fish BBQ at Kalbarri and everywhere else in Australia known what was really going down and who was getting paid by whom, I think they would have been standing shoulder to shoulder wit them. It's an Aussie thing, which non Aussies simply don't get.
It could not happen again today, for no other reason than that the internet now exists and the execrable behaviour of certain persons could not go unchallenged.
I think the more pertinent question should be, given the knowledge of what and how it actually happened, would be what the returnees and blow ins say to the workers at Finlay's Fresh Fish BBQ were they to be taxed by them on it.
Hmmm Kalbarri.
I have been going there since 1956, Hec Mainwaring had what is now I think Lambs cottages after the Sangsters with whom we used to go bought it from young Hec. It was just a bunch of fishermans shacks with the "road" from Ajana little more than a goat track.
They were still using the old lugger type cray boats with the first displacement planing types a curiosity
Went to school with young Browny.
And yes I have pics of young gaunty holding up 12 lb tailer nearly as big as he that we would usually throw back as tiddlers..
From where I come from in this world and which I admit is probably an Australian world no longer recognisable (and we are IMHO the worse for it) I would like to think that the response would have after a bit of straight forward Aussie dialogue, been total dismay.
Dismay that Australia whose union movement started in the same outback environment by the shearers for a fair days work, pay and conditions was treating "my fellow Australians"
so.Dismay that the Murdoch owned press was pressing the anti case for an airline of which he was half owner.
Outback Aussies have never trusted the big city "press".
Basically the lack of a fair go.
You're right if you control the media and the owners control the Government then the pilots and anyone else were on a hiding to nothing.
It was a very very scary time for Oz.
Had the workers at Finlay's Fresh Fish BBQ at Kalbarri and everywhere else in Australia known what was really going down and who was getting paid by whom, I think they would have been standing shoulder to shoulder wit them. It's an Aussie thing, which non Aussies simply don't get.
It could not happen again today, for no other reason than that the internet now exists and the execrable behaviour of certain persons could not go unchallenged.
I think the more pertinent question should be, given the knowledge of what and how it actually happened, would be what the returnees and blow ins say to the workers at Finlay's Fresh Fish BBQ were they to be taxed by them on it.
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Had the workers at Finlay's Fresh Fish BBQ at Kalbarri and everywhere else in Australia known what was really going down and who was getting paid by whom, I think they would have been standing shoulder to shoulder wit them. It's an Aussie thing, which non Aussies simply don't get.
"Are you
kidding?? I'm losing my job for that??"Remember Kalbarri is just a microcosm of Australian society. I'm sure the Australian community at large didn't support the 89'ers. I don't put it down to poor press, but rather the fact most Australian's could only dream of the income that an Airline pilot gets. All they saw was some "rich guy" asking for more, and costing them to try achieve it.
Last edited by Pass-A-Frozo; 9th Oct 2005 at 10:02.
It is fair to say that many posters only have a small part of the story and that is the nature of these sorts of discussions.
Gaunty's posts, I suggest, are quite balanced. One particularly pertinent observation he makes relates to the internet. Had PPRUNE been available the dispute would NEVER have developed the way it did - the AFAP could not have engaged in the secretive practices it did nor could the other side successfully have commited the skulduggery it did. The dispute, as many skirmishes in various disciplines preceding it, depended on disinformation and deceit to permit it to feed on itself. The net, and bulletin boards such as PPRUNE, either blow this problem out of the water or make it so difficult to achieve that much of the problem has disappeared, I suspect.
Gaunty's posts, I suggest, are quite balanced. One particularly pertinent observation he makes relates to the internet. Had PPRUNE been available the dispute would NEVER have developed the way it did - the AFAP could not have engaged in the secretive practices it did nor could the other side successfully have commited the skulduggery it did. The dispute, as many skirmishes in various disciplines preceding it, depended on disinformation and deceit to permit it to feed on itself. The net, and bulletin boards such as PPRUNE, either blow this problem out of the water or make it so difficult to achieve that much of the problem has disappeared, I suspect.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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The net, and bulletin boards such as PPRUNE, either blow this problem out of the water or make it so difficult to achieve that much of the problem has disappeared, I suspect.
The net, and bulletin boards such as PPRUNE, have provided "the problem" with a place to take refuge from the realities of the modern world. Imagine if some of the crackpots posting on here were actually flying paying passengers around the sky!