OzJet flies into Victoria, from SA
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OzJet flies into Victoria, from SA
By Scott Rochford
Sydney
August 1, 2005
Domestic airline wannabe OzJet has switched its home base from Adelaide to Melbourne after failing to secure government subsidies, but said the move would not hinder its plans to launch services by late October.
The all-business-class airline, backed by formula one team owner Paul Stoddart, said as a result it had ditched plans to fly to Canberra and Adelaide in its first phase of operation. It will fly only on the high-volume Sydney-Melbourne route.
OzJet says it plans to fly 16 one-way flights a day after it gains its air operators certificate, hopefully by late September.
This compares with the average 56 Qantas and 46 Virgin Blue weekday flights on the Sydney-Melbourne route, which is the third busiest in the world.
OzJet chief executive Hans van Pelt said the late change of plan and lack of government funding would not derail the airline's planned launch.
"It won't hurt the business plan," he said. "It may slow it down somewhat but ultimately the market will determine how quickly that (OzJet's expansion) happens. From a funding perspective we're fine. We've got funding in place," he said, noting the airline was debt free and had $45 million in capital.
After the South Australian Government's initial upbeat response to OzJet's planned launch in February, it did not sound too enthused with the airline over the weekend.
The chief executive of the state's Department of Economic Development, Ray Garrand, said: "The dilemma for the . . . Government is that since we last had detailed discussions with them (OzJet), their plans have changed markedly.
"Their plans have changed from employing originally 550 people nationally and about 300 of those in South Australia, to really now changing their whole business model plan to only employing 90 people in South Australia in stage one.
"That really alters any consideration the Government would give to providing support." He declined to say how much the Government was prepared to put on the table. It is believed the South Australian Government's plans to help OzJet were complicated when the airline also applied for a Federal Government sponsored grant.
OzJet's second 30-year-old Boeing 737-200 is due to arrive in Melbourne on Wednesday with Minardi team boss Mr Stoddart on board. With a three-week break in the formula one season, he is expected to hold talks with the South Australian Government next week.
OzJet says it plans to have three 737s in Australia by October. The aircraft are undergoing heavy maintenance "D" checks in Romania, but the airline is yet to spell out where it intends to service the aircraft in future. It hopes to have two of its former Ansett BAe 146-300s in service early next year.
Sydney
August 1, 2005
Domestic airline wannabe OzJet has switched its home base from Adelaide to Melbourne after failing to secure government subsidies, but said the move would not hinder its plans to launch services by late October.
The all-business-class airline, backed by formula one team owner Paul Stoddart, said as a result it had ditched plans to fly to Canberra and Adelaide in its first phase of operation. It will fly only on the high-volume Sydney-Melbourne route.
OzJet says it plans to fly 16 one-way flights a day after it gains its air operators certificate, hopefully by late September.
This compares with the average 56 Qantas and 46 Virgin Blue weekday flights on the Sydney-Melbourne route, which is the third busiest in the world.
OzJet chief executive Hans van Pelt said the late change of plan and lack of government funding would not derail the airline's planned launch.
"It won't hurt the business plan," he said. "It may slow it down somewhat but ultimately the market will determine how quickly that (OzJet's expansion) happens. From a funding perspective we're fine. We've got funding in place," he said, noting the airline was debt free and had $45 million in capital.
After the South Australian Government's initial upbeat response to OzJet's planned launch in February, it did not sound too enthused with the airline over the weekend.
The chief executive of the state's Department of Economic Development, Ray Garrand, said: "The dilemma for the . . . Government is that since we last had detailed discussions with them (OzJet), their plans have changed markedly.
"Their plans have changed from employing originally 550 people nationally and about 300 of those in South Australia, to really now changing their whole business model plan to only employing 90 people in South Australia in stage one.
"That really alters any consideration the Government would give to providing support." He declined to say how much the Government was prepared to put on the table. It is believed the South Australian Government's plans to help OzJet were complicated when the airline also applied for a Federal Government sponsored grant.
OzJet's second 30-year-old Boeing 737-200 is due to arrive in Melbourne on Wednesday with Minardi team boss Mr Stoddart on board. With a three-week break in the formula one season, he is expected to hold talks with the South Australian Government next week.
OzJet says it plans to have three 737s in Australia by October. The aircraft are undergoing heavy maintenance "D" checks in Romania, but the airline is yet to spell out where it intends to service the aircraft in future. It hopes to have two of its former Ansett BAe 146-300s in service early next year.
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It amazes me how people love to cut down tall poppies in Australia.
The all round good guy Vizard gets sprung doing a little insider trading and whammo he's public enemy number one.
I just don't think insider trading is a severe crime - let's face it, it's all that separates the stock market from the gaming industry. Without real knowledge of what a company is doing, when you buy shares all you are doing is gambling.
I bet if the tables were turned that there is not a person here who would not trade shares with insuide knowledge in order to make a profit.
Inside trading becomes a different issue when it causes people to get hurt, but when all that happens is someone makes profit - how is that bad?
Rant over now - and back to the original thread - I love Adelaide, and I love the idea of an all business class airline.
Australian business travelers are desperate for an airline to provide them with an intercity travel service that treats them in a manner that would reflect their job/demographic status. When they travel they stay in five star hotels often paying in excess of $300 per night, so why would they want to be crammed in to sardine seating and treated with contempt by underpaid staff in low cost carriers?
QF business class is too expensive for what it is, and it's not half the business class service that Ansett provided. There is a firm demand for a mid range quality business class seat at a reasonable price.
The only people who care about the age of the aircraft are the airline staff, as a well maintained ageing aircraft can be safe, and trust me I have seen some poorly maintained new aircraft in my aviation career. - Tell me - who is up for flying in an A380 SYD-LA shortly after it gets here ??? NOT ME !!!
All this said, with the SA government dropping the airline because it has changed it's business plan, I am disappointed. The SA government's lack of foresight is what is keeping the state in the economic dark ages. Sure supporting an airline is a long bow to draw, but is it any worse than supporting a dying car manufacturer years beyond it's viabilities end? Time for the SA government to wake up and encourage business rather than keeping the state a sleepy backwater forever.
The all round good guy Vizard gets sprung doing a little insider trading and whammo he's public enemy number one.
I just don't think insider trading is a severe crime - let's face it, it's all that separates the stock market from the gaming industry. Without real knowledge of what a company is doing, when you buy shares all you are doing is gambling.
I bet if the tables were turned that there is not a person here who would not trade shares with insuide knowledge in order to make a profit.
Inside trading becomes a different issue when it causes people to get hurt, but when all that happens is someone makes profit - how is that bad?
Rant over now - and back to the original thread - I love Adelaide, and I love the idea of an all business class airline.
Australian business travelers are desperate for an airline to provide them with an intercity travel service that treats them in a manner that would reflect their job/demographic status. When they travel they stay in five star hotels often paying in excess of $300 per night, so why would they want to be crammed in to sardine seating and treated with contempt by underpaid staff in low cost carriers?
QF business class is too expensive for what it is, and it's not half the business class service that Ansett provided. There is a firm demand for a mid range quality business class seat at a reasonable price.
The only people who care about the age of the aircraft are the airline staff, as a well maintained ageing aircraft can be safe, and trust me I have seen some poorly maintained new aircraft in my aviation career. - Tell me - who is up for flying in an A380 SYD-LA shortly after it gets here ??? NOT ME !!!
All this said, with the SA government dropping the airline because it has changed it's business plan, I am disappointed. The SA government's lack of foresight is what is keeping the state in the economic dark ages. Sure supporting an airline is a long bow to draw, but is it any worse than supporting a dying car manufacturer years beyond it's viabilities end? Time for the SA government to wake up and encourage business rather than keeping the state a sleepy backwater forever.
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Tinpis, it depends on how much cheaper the -200 was than the -300.
Lets say a -200 costs $ 1 000 000 and a -300 costs $ 5 000 000, then apportioning a rule of thumb 10% (but I bet it's higher - I wouldn't invest in a risky venture like this at 10 %!!) capital cost the weekly costs just to have the aircraft are
-200 $1917
-300 $9615
If financing at an LVR of 50%, you would need the following clear equity in bricks and mortar assets.
-200 $ 2 000 000
-300 $ 10 000 000
It's far easier to spend cashflow on ongoing maintenance than it is to earn equity. Once, however, the cashflow builds to equity, it can be used to purchase newer aircraft !!
Also, examining the downside, if the business doesn't work, and the aircraft have to be sold at a loss, lets say for arguments sake 50%, then a -200 looses you $500K, whilst a -300 looses you $ 2 500 000.
Lets say a -200 costs $ 1 000 000 and a -300 costs $ 5 000 000, then apportioning a rule of thumb 10% (but I bet it's higher - I wouldn't invest in a risky venture like this at 10 %!!) capital cost the weekly costs just to have the aircraft are
-200 $1917
-300 $9615
If financing at an LVR of 50%, you would need the following clear equity in bricks and mortar assets.
-200 $ 2 000 000
-300 $ 10 000 000
It's far easier to spend cashflow on ongoing maintenance than it is to earn equity. Once, however, the cashflow builds to equity, it can be used to purchase newer aircraft !!
Also, examining the downside, if the business doesn't work, and the aircraft have to be sold at a loss, lets say for arguments sake 50%, then a -200 looses you $500K, whilst a -300 looses you $ 2 500 000.
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Thread Starter
pullock I guess its all perception really. Don't forget he was in a position of trust, not just an ordinary employee. Thousands of shareholders depended on his performance (a generalisation) to ensure that what they gambled was in safe hands.
Of course, if the tables were turned, yeah, why not? But, that doesn't make it (a) legal or (b) ethical. Who would invest in stocks when there was a chance your directors were making decisions based on their personal gain? What is sorely lacking in many boardrooms across Australia is integrity! This doesn't help.
Sometimes people hide behind the tall poppy syndrome, but, occasionally, some poppies grow too tall & bold.
Of course, if the tables were turned, yeah, why not? But, that doesn't make it (a) legal or (b) ethical. Who would invest in stocks when there was a chance your directors were making decisions based on their personal gain? What is sorely lacking in many boardrooms across Australia is integrity! This doesn't help.
Sometimes people hide behind the tall poppy syndrome, but, occasionally, some poppies grow too tall & bold.
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pullock me old.
You would be one of the few people in Australia, besides Vizard and a few others, who believe that.
Telstra wasn't exactly one of those penny dreadfuls beloved of dodgy bros entrepreneurs who plunder the widows and orphans piggy banks.
He was much funnier when he was writing the comedy scripts that were so good at lampooning the same behaviour.
His dodgy bros skits were hilarious.
Perhaps life does imitate art after all.
Let's see ..... Media Release:
OzJet airlines are disappointed with the withdrawal of the SA Govt support for our airline.
Their participation was a pivotal part of our plan to bring real choice to the Australian business traveller. blah blah blah....
We are also finding that whilst the Australian regulator is processing our application speedily it is insisting on unrealistic maintenance, environmental and airport noise restrictions which will make it difficult to operate our aircraft profitably.
It is with regret .... blah bah blah, .. concentrate on F1.......will make another announcement beginning of the next F1 season in Melb when we need some exposure for our F1 sponsors etc etc.......
I just don't think insider trading is a severe crime - let's face it, it's all that separates the stock market from the gaming industry. Without real knowledge of what a company is doing, when you buy shares all you are doing is gambling.
Telstra wasn't exactly one of those penny dreadfuls beloved of dodgy bros entrepreneurs who plunder the widows and orphans piggy banks.
He was much funnier when he was writing the comedy scripts that were so good at lampooning the same behaviour.
His dodgy bros skits were hilarious.
Perhaps life does imitate art after all.
Let's see ..... Media Release:
OzJet airlines are disappointed with the withdrawal of the SA Govt support for our airline.
Their participation was a pivotal part of our plan to bring real choice to the Australian business traveller. blah blah blah....
We are also finding that whilst the Australian regulator is processing our application speedily it is insisting on unrealistic maintenance, environmental and airport noise restrictions which will make it difficult to operate our aircraft profitably.
It is with regret .... blah bah blah, .. concentrate on F1.......will make another announcement beginning of the next F1 season in Melb when we need some exposure for our F1 sponsors etc etc.......
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Hi Gaunty,
Firstly at the inside trading thing - it is my understanding that he bought shares in a company that was awarded a decent contract by Telstra. If I am wrong then please correct me.
It seems to me that most Australians equate a little inside trading like this to major fraud that hurts the little people, and you would seem to be of this opinion
. His actions as a director by purchasing a third parties shares did not adversely effect either the third party, nor Telstra, nor anyone else for that matter. Just because Qintex and HIH failed spectacularly under poor corporate governance, doesn't mean that a little third party inside trading is the crime of the century. What it really means is that people don't understand a damn thing about it!! Personally I think a far greater crime is feathering ones nest whilst in the position of CEO by selling the hoarse to buy a new saddle, but funnily enough that one is legal. Compared to a police man shooting an innocent guy in the head eight times in a subway inside trading is minor as well, but I bet you will find that the cop gets off whilst the inside trader has been hung from a very public cross. Both were in a position of trust. There is a concept of natural justice that the punishment should fit the crime. In this case, where nobody at all was disadvantaged by the crime, it seems somewhat over the top to crucify someone for taking the opportunity to make some profit. Oh and you think that Telstra don't take advantage of disadvantaged people.............you obviously don't have much to do with the telecommunication industry, where Telstra don't have such a great reputation for being the nice guy. Did you miss the disproportionate increase in line rental over the last two years ??
Oh and by the way - I couldn't stand Vizard as a comedian one little bit, but I think that punishing him for being an erkful personality in this way is just too much. Imagine what Rove is in for in years to come
Re Ozjet,
I have always enjoyed your posts, thinking that you are a well informed and unbiased comentater, but I think I see your QF spots coming out
As a consumer of airline services, would love to see another operator entering the market, as the current marketplace post Ansett (no I have never worked for Ansett but I have traveled Ansett and QF business a LOT) is not one that provides very much quality of service due to a lack of competition. There seems to be a mindset against the Stodart thing in Australia - I don't follow sport and therefore don't understand this. It is simply my understanding that the marketplace could well do with a carrier that will provide a premium service at a decent price, rather than a premium service at a price that ensures that there are always business seats available for staff
Every airline including the great QF requests government assistance and grants from state governments to assist with startup costs. I simply think that it is short sighted that SA aren't taking yet another opportunity to attract business yet again. Personally, if I was wanting to start a corporate hub style operation I would head to Adelaide as it's Australia’s cheapest mainland city in terms of infrastructure and labor costs, yet it from Adelaide that corparates are flocking in droves because the SA government doesn't offer the carrots that the other states do - particularly VIC. Remember that VIC's economy was STUFFED some years ago, and what the remedy was - attracting money to the state by offering substantial incentives to business there, specifically attracting the cream of business and events (remember the grand prix??) from SA. SA lost through bad government.
Re CASA being slow - it's just a fact of life - I recall Virgin had the same problems trying to get an AOC. CASA aren't easy to deal with on AOC's. The incumbents enjoy the protection afforded them by barriers to entry, but there is always a way around it - just look at history - if you employ people with CASA expertise to assist your AOC application then it has a far greater chance of getting up first time - just like asking a banker to help with a loan application.
I hope OZjet gets up, and if not I hope Singapore come in, and if not I hope someone else enters, so that I can travel nicely without having to go the expense of chartering a business jet.
Firstly at the inside trading thing - it is my understanding that he bought shares in a company that was awarded a decent contract by Telstra. If I am wrong then please correct me.
It seems to me that most Australians equate a little inside trading like this to major fraud that hurts the little people, and you would seem to be of this opinion
Telstra wasn't exactly one of those penny dreadfuls beloved of dodgy bros entrepreneurs who plunder the widows and orphans piggy banks.
Oh and by the way - I couldn't stand Vizard as a comedian one little bit, but I think that punishing him for being an erkful personality in this way is just too much. Imagine what Rove is in for in years to come
Re Ozjet,
I have always enjoyed your posts, thinking that you are a well informed and unbiased comentater, but I think I see your QF spots coming out
As a consumer of airline services, would love to see another operator entering the market, as the current marketplace post Ansett (no I have never worked for Ansett but I have traveled Ansett and QF business a LOT) is not one that provides very much quality of service due to a lack of competition. There seems to be a mindset against the Stodart thing in Australia - I don't follow sport and therefore don't understand this. It is simply my understanding that the marketplace could well do with a carrier that will provide a premium service at a decent price, rather than a premium service at a price that ensures that there are always business seats available for staff
Every airline including the great QF requests government assistance and grants from state governments to assist with startup costs. I simply think that it is short sighted that SA aren't taking yet another opportunity to attract business yet again. Personally, if I was wanting to start a corporate hub style operation I would head to Adelaide as it's Australia’s cheapest mainland city in terms of infrastructure and labor costs, yet it from Adelaide that corparates are flocking in droves because the SA government doesn't offer the carrots that the other states do - particularly VIC. Remember that VIC's economy was STUFFED some years ago, and what the remedy was - attracting money to the state by offering substantial incentives to business there, specifically attracting the cream of business and events (remember the grand prix??) from SA. SA lost through bad government.
Re CASA being slow - it's just a fact of life - I recall Virgin had the same problems trying to get an AOC. CASA aren't easy to deal with on AOC's. The incumbents enjoy the protection afforded them by barriers to entry, but there is always a way around it - just look at history - if you employ people with CASA expertise to assist your AOC application then it has a far greater chance of getting up first time - just like asking a banker to help with a loan application.
I hope OZjet gets up, and if not I hope Singapore come in, and if not I hope someone else enters, so that I can travel nicely without having to go the expense of chartering a business jet.
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You somehow think that if you receive a tip from a friend that it's less a crime than if your friends are other board members?
Personally I would rather receive a share tip from a mate who is on a board than a mate who turns a spanner.
If you hang with mates on a board then you get share tips from board level, if you hang with mates who turn spanners then you get advice from them that is at consumer level.
Why is it a crime to receive share tips from someone who knows what they are talking about, whilst receiving advice from someone who doesn't isquite legal?????????????
The real winners on the stock market receive great tips every day. The rest of us have to use the best of what we can get. The inside trading laws are meant to make it a level playing field, but like speeding, everyone does it if they can, and so would you as you were reading this. Like speeding the fine should be a slap on the wrist. If nobody is hurt then no foul no harm I say. Still not as bad as being shot in the head eight times for making the mistake of being innocent !!!
Personally I would rather receive a share tip from a mate who is on a board than a mate who turns a spanner.
If you hang with mates on a board then you get share tips from board level, if you hang with mates who turn spanners then you get advice from them that is at consumer level.
Why is it a crime to receive share tips from someone who knows what they are talking about, whilst receiving advice from someone who doesn't isquite legal?????????????
The real winners on the stock market receive great tips every day. The rest of us have to use the best of what we can get. The inside trading laws are meant to make it a level playing field, but like speeding, everyone does it if they can, and so would you as you were reading this. Like speeding the fine should be a slap on the wrist. If nobody is hurt then no foul no harm I say. Still not as bad as being shot in the head eight times for making the mistake of being innocent !!!
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So pullock, if I came round and rooted your wife or your 17yo daughter, that would be okay, mate?
After all, it would probably be just the once, and hey, I realise that given the opportunity you would do mine, and what harm is there in it really? So many people are cheating on each other there is really no reason for you to be upset.
After all, it would probably be just the once, and hey, I realise that given the opportunity you would do mine, and what harm is there in it really? So many people are cheating on each other there is really no reason for you to be upset.
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I have been guilty if hijacking this thread with insider trading way too much, and shuldn't be drawn too far down this path, as it's a thread about an airline that I hope to support if it's advertised concept becomes reality. I would prefer to talk about that here, but simply don't want to be seen running away from my stance.
My stance is no harm no foul, and let the punishment fit the crime. In this case nobody was harmed by a minor foul, so the punishment should fit the crime. The previous post equates a minor crime with a major one or two, and highlights my point, that most people haveno idea what they are on about.
QED
My stance is no harm no foul, and let the punishment fit the crime. In this case nobody was harmed by a minor foul, so the punishment should fit the crime. The previous post equates a minor crime with a major one or two, and highlights my point, that most people haveno idea what they are on about.
QED
Evertonian
Thread Starter
The difference being that the Board member was using the information for himself...if he's got the scruples (or lack thereof) to feather his own nest, how far could it have gone? Passing information is a different argument completely. It's still illegal.
"I was only a little drunk...I was only a little bit over the speed limit...It was only a couple of million shares..."
"I was only a little drunk...I was only a little bit over the speed limit...It was only a couple of million shares..."