Branson flies in to discuss new Intl airline
Join Date: Apr 2000
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I just can't resist it.
Would Virgin Iran's aeroplanes have their baggage locker doors welded closed until they were fully owned by the company?
Sorry bout dat!!
EWL
Would Virgin Iran's aeroplanes have their baggage locker doors welded closed until they were fully owned by the company?
Sorry bout dat!!
EWL
Join Date: May 2002
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Today was the first day of the EBA negots, for the Dj guys.
I think you hit the nail right on the head "OhForSure".
At the meeting today guys were told that there is definite plans for a long haul division as was reported in the media. (Guess they couldnt hide that bit!) As yet there has still been no decision on whether it will directly invlove DJ OPS/company etc. However it was indicated that the VS guys will start things off and DJ guys will follow and application for right to bid will be done on start date (finally something fair).
If you go though, there is no guarantee you will get back to DJ.
It wont be a self paid endorsement but a bond period as is such with VS. At least this is what was in the first draft in the Log of claims thats was submitted in reference to any long haul version starting. First feedback at the first meeting was that the company hasnt disagreed on this part. At least a promising sign for the girls and guys there. Maybe corrigan has already had a bit of influence. Either way the gravy train on Q most profitable route is about to change. If Singapore gets rights also then things will be very interesting on the Q share side.
I think you hit the nail right on the head "OhForSure".
At the meeting today guys were told that there is definite plans for a long haul division as was reported in the media. (Guess they couldnt hide that bit!) As yet there has still been no decision on whether it will directly invlove DJ OPS/company etc. However it was indicated that the VS guys will start things off and DJ guys will follow and application for right to bid will be done on start date (finally something fair).
If you go though, there is no guarantee you will get back to DJ.
It wont be a self paid endorsement but a bond period as is such with VS. At least this is what was in the first draft in the Log of claims thats was submitted in reference to any long haul version starting. First feedback at the first meeting was that the company hasnt disagreed on this part. At least a promising sign for the girls and guys there. Maybe corrigan has already had a bit of influence. Either way the gravy train on Q most profitable route is about to change. If Singapore gets rights also then things will be very interesting on the Q share side.
Sprucegoose
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EWL,
May I suggest less late night reading of the works of Freud.
Cheers, HH.
May I suggest less late night reading of the works of Freud.
Cheers, HH.
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I dont know about the meetings however I have seen the log of claims submitted and PRisk is on the money about what is in it regarding the longhaul. I also heard a while ago the VS guys will start it and DJ guys to follow.
Also from what I have seen, OPs seem pretty onside also with these points as mentioned in his thread also. But as I said I wasnt at the melb meeting but it doesnt sound too far off the mark.
Also from what I have seen, OPs seem pretty onside also with these points as mentioned in his thread also. But as I said I wasnt at the melb meeting but it doesnt sound too far off the mark.
Prisk and SSleuth,
I take it you are assuming the long haul route would be set up by VB. How could anyone submit a log of claims for an airline they didn't work for?
I take it you are assuming the long haul route would be set up by VB. How could anyone submit a log of claims for an airline they didn't work for?
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Pure risk, the first airline to compete with QF across the Pacific will be an Asian carrier. I too have freinds who were at the said meeting,no mention made of any trans Pacific flying.
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I think you might find it will be called: Virgin Pacific.
Aircraft to be A340 .
There already are Australians with the rating and experience.These would start the ball rolling. Others would come from an airbus background with the Jetstars
the likely losers.
The company would be completely separate from Virgin Blue or Pacific Blue and it would offer full service in the mould of Virgin Atlantic. DJ crew won't get a look in.
From my last flights on DJ, it would appear that the DJ pilots have enough trouble handling there own aircraft let alone a new type.
Aircraft to be A340 .
There already are Australians with the rating and experience.These would start the ball rolling. Others would come from an airbus background with the Jetstars
the likely losers.
The company would be completely separate from Virgin Blue or Pacific Blue and it would offer full service in the mould of Virgin Atlantic. DJ crew won't get a look in.
From my last flights on DJ, it would appear that the DJ pilots have enough trouble handling there own aircraft let alone a new type.
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I thought part of the Virgin/SQ agreement was that no more International carriers were supposed to carry the 'Virgin' name - hence Pacific Blue.
However, not sure how this works with Virgin Nigeria.
However, not sure how this works with Virgin Nigeria.
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Dear Basil,
The last statement is the only one that I can guarantee is a fact.
Last couple of attempts that I endured were definitely not displays of skill. May have been (coincidentally) learners but, still true.
Reasoning behind it was to add a bit of humour, for my benefit if not yours. Does it dent your DJ pride a little?
Oh and I have quite a few mates at DJ including some management types.
As for the rest, you seemed to believe it so, it must be true.
All I say is that I don't put things into print that I believe are not true and I don't make up stories to impress .
A question for you Basil.
Were you just looking for anything to hang your hat on and then tried to discredit everthing else along with it, including the facts ?
Hope I haven\'t made the bristles stand up too much!
The last statement is the only one that I can guarantee is a fact.
Last couple of attempts that I endured were definitely not displays of skill. May have been (coincidentally) learners but, still true.
Reasoning behind it was to add a bit of humour, for my benefit if not yours. Does it dent your DJ pride a little?
Oh and I have quite a few mates at DJ including some management types.
As for the rest, you seemed to believe it so, it must be true.
All I say is that I don't put things into print that I believe are not true and I don't make up stories to impress .
A question for you Basil.
Were you just looking for anything to hang your hat on and then tried to discredit everthing else along with it, including the facts ?
Hope I haven\'t made the bristles stand up too much!
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apacau, the deal with SQ is that no international airline will use the name Virgin in this part of the world, hence Pacific Blue. Virgin America and Virgin Nigeria are okay as they will or do not fly to Aus. To use Virgin Pacific or Virgin whatever to fly internationally SQ would have to be a part of it or be paid huge royalties.
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Hi sportsfans
One thing that would make Virgin Pacific ( or whatever) more accessible, would be a reversal of the Virgin Atlantic attitude to the local market.
I have tried on numerous occasions to get a head to talk to me regarding access to a "plate" to allow me to issue VS nett remit tickets for some of my highyield corporates. I will NOT deal through a consolidator for these tickets, because it adds 24 hours to the transaction and both major operations a "family" businesses with English generally a second language, or so it seems with some of the load errors I have found in fares.
Family businesses are generally a good thing, because some of the families involved would have no hope of getting a job in the real world.
I personally think that VS is not interested in the Aus - UK traffic, as the fares ex here particularly in J are far lower than the UK - Aus fares which are based in Pounds. The local market is simply unimportant.
It would be a different state of affairs on the Pacific though, particularly with equipment that can do the journey with full payload both ways.
The SYD LAX return is around the same per seat kilometre in J as SYD LHR with two less cycles on the aeroplane and 18 hours less flying.
Maybe THEY will be a little more receptive to the Australian marketplace.
Best all
EWL
One thing that would make Virgin Pacific ( or whatever) more accessible, would be a reversal of the Virgin Atlantic attitude to the local market.
I have tried on numerous occasions to get a head to talk to me regarding access to a "plate" to allow me to issue VS nett remit tickets for some of my highyield corporates. I will NOT deal through a consolidator for these tickets, because it adds 24 hours to the transaction and both major operations a "family" businesses with English generally a second language, or so it seems with some of the load errors I have found in fares.
Family businesses are generally a good thing, because some of the families involved would have no hope of getting a job in the real world.
I personally think that VS is not interested in the Aus - UK traffic, as the fares ex here particularly in J are far lower than the UK - Aus fares which are based in Pounds. The local market is simply unimportant.
It would be a different state of affairs on the Pacific though, particularly with equipment that can do the journey with full payload both ways.
The SYD LAX return is around the same per seat kilometre in J as SYD LHR with two less cycles on the aeroplane and 18 hours less flying.
Maybe THEY will be a little more receptive to the Australian marketplace.
Best all
EWL
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We will just have to wait see won't we. We could give Anderson a call in Canberra, he will know as he was in London about four weeks ago and visited Sir Dick to talk about the airline.
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Fantastic!!
The beard with teeth wants to set up an international airline at a time of record fuel prices and huge losses amongst the world's "legacy" carriers, with no end to the current downward spiral in sight.
His investors will bankroll his startup and he will launch it with huge fanfare as an airline to "keep the international airfares fair".
He will initially employ overseas pilots and aircraft whilst negotiating all sorts of tax breaks and concessions from State governments slavering to secure his home base.
He will gain all sorts of wage and industrial concessions from the unions so that their workers can get a foot in the door. Australian pilots might eventually get a chance to fly, but they will have to pay for their endorsement and training. With a reduced tax and wage burden and the usual Virgin "everybody's out to get us" advertising campaign, the new entity will attract a large clientelle.
Meanwhile Qantas (Australia's largest aviation employer) will lose money from one of its last profitable routes and this will put even more downward pressure on the last decent wages left in the industry in this country. Posters on Pprune will watch the declining financial position of Qantas and gloat over its possible demise. Other posters will say that those elitist AIPA bastards deserved it and had it coming to them.
After a year or two, the beard with teeth will look for another substantial investor to "grow the business" a'la VB and reduce his stake. In time he might float the rest and divest his shareholding completely. A nice profit for the beard with teeth and another airline to struggle in an already pressure-filled environment. In the meantime, Qantas workers will have lost or traded off further conditions to remain "competitive" with the new entity.
Pardon me if I cannot muster much enthusiasm for our beloved aviation saviour and his latest business venture!!!!!!!!!
The beard with teeth wants to set up an international airline at a time of record fuel prices and huge losses amongst the world's "legacy" carriers, with no end to the current downward spiral in sight.
His investors will bankroll his startup and he will launch it with huge fanfare as an airline to "keep the international airfares fair".
He will initially employ overseas pilots and aircraft whilst negotiating all sorts of tax breaks and concessions from State governments slavering to secure his home base.
He will gain all sorts of wage and industrial concessions from the unions so that their workers can get a foot in the door. Australian pilots might eventually get a chance to fly, but they will have to pay for their endorsement and training. With a reduced tax and wage burden and the usual Virgin "everybody's out to get us" advertising campaign, the new entity will attract a large clientelle.
Meanwhile Qantas (Australia's largest aviation employer) will lose money from one of its last profitable routes and this will put even more downward pressure on the last decent wages left in the industry in this country. Posters on Pprune will watch the declining financial position of Qantas and gloat over its possible demise. Other posters will say that those elitist AIPA bastards deserved it and had it coming to them.
After a year or two, the beard with teeth will look for another substantial investor to "grow the business" a'la VB and reduce his stake. In time he might float the rest and divest his shareholding completely. A nice profit for the beard with teeth and another airline to struggle in an already pressure-filled environment. In the meantime, Qantas workers will have lost or traded off further conditions to remain "competitive" with the new entity.
Pardon me if I cannot muster much enthusiasm for our beloved aviation saviour and his latest business venture!!!!!!!!!
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So what's the problem. Same as GD trying to wipe out VB with Jetstar. It's called business and it is the way of the world. We just get the best employment deal we can at the time. Branson uses his tactics to the public where Dixon presents exactly the same thing to the govt behind closed doors. No real difference really.