Shame Qantas Shame
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Shame Qantas Shame
My best friend just flew back from Tokyo to Cairns on QF060 last week and was appalled by the absolute lack of service and total disregard for passenger comfort. How in blazes can it take over 2hours to get a meal (now after midnight) and nearly an hour and a half to take the meal away.
On decent into Cairns a plastic cup of orange juice was basically thrown onto the tray of his and his new wife's meal tray without even a glance at them. SHAME SHAME SHAME.
3 cabin crew for a 767 economy is ridiculous. He won't be renewing QF club membership this year.
Another of the masses leaving QF in droves. Management, please look after your front-line staff so that they can look after you.
Geoff Dixon has a lot to explain to my mate.
Cranky TBT
On decent into Cairns a plastic cup of orange juice was basically thrown onto the tray of his and his new wife's meal tray without even a glance at them. SHAME SHAME SHAME.
3 cabin crew for a 767 economy is ridiculous. He won't be renewing QF club membership this year.
Another of the masses leaving QF in droves. Management, please look after your front-line staff so that they can look after you.
Geoff Dixon has a lot to explain to my mate.
Cranky TBT
Sad to hear...
Probably didn't help that that same crew would have been operating through CNS-SYD as well. I know it's appalling but you cannot blame the people themselves for a poor performance, even if perhaps they could have been a bit quicker. Its the fact that they are dispatched with minimum minimum minimum crew that doesn't help. Did a charter with Air Nugini a while ago and for a long flight(s) with 2 sectors (i.e long TOD) they carried several more cabin crew on the 767 then Qf does. Is there a message there? And no I am not talking about employing staff from PNG, although they were very very good from the correspondence we had with them.
Probably didn't help that that same crew would have been operating through CNS-SYD as well. I know it's appalling but you cannot blame the people themselves for a poor performance, even if perhaps they could have been a bit quicker. Its the fact that they are dispatched with minimum minimum minimum crew that doesn't help. Did a charter with Air Nugini a while ago and for a long flight(s) with 2 sectors (i.e long TOD) they carried several more cabin crew on the 767 then Qf does. Is there a message there? And no I am not talking about employing staff from PNG, although they were very very good from the correspondence we had with them.
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More Information please
1.Was there any prolonged periods of turbulence during this sector.ie was the seat belt illuminated?
2.Was there a delay ex NRT?
3.Any explanation made by the CSM?
4.Normally there are 4 operators in Y/C
5.Was this operated by a QF (mainline)international crew
6.Was any apology/ information provided.
The whole thing sounds odd...very upsetting obviously but odd nevertheless.At present there is a shortage of supervisory crew as many(too many) have been forced to take leave.
It would appear that there were no supervisory crew. Indeed they would appear to have been operating short of crew period.
A very sad state of affairs for your friend...but this is Qantas management in action.
2.Was there a delay ex NRT?
3.Any explanation made by the CSM?
4.Normally there are 4 operators in Y/C
5.Was this operated by a QF (mainline)international crew
6.Was any apology/ information provided.
The whole thing sounds odd...very upsetting obviously but odd nevertheless.At present there is a shortage of supervisory crew as many(too many) have been forced to take leave.
It would appear that there were no supervisory crew. Indeed they would appear to have been operating short of crew period.
A very sad state of affairs for your friend...but this is Qantas management in action.
My experience on QF out of London last month was the same. I don't expect much service on a 'regular fare.' However the lack of interest and rudeness of this particular crew was breathtaking. They must be trying to sabotage the company. Their jobs won't last long if they keep that performance running, because there won't be any passengers.
The reason Air Niugini, SQ, TG and so on ad infinitum have more cabin crew is because they're paid less than half of what QF cabin crew are paid.
Hardly surprising GD wants to break the cabin crew union as he is finally becoming aware of the fact that many of his primary, frontline customer service staff don't really care - as evidenced by their levels of "engagement".
The easiest way to improve customer service is break the union, reduce salary levels and increase the number of FA's per aeroplane. Greater numbers of staff at the same cost.
Also, please make sure your complaint goes to the airline. The only way things will change is if enough people start to put it in writing.
Hardly surprising GD wants to break the cabin crew union as he is finally becoming aware of the fact that many of his primary, frontline customer service staff don't really care - as evidenced by their levels of "engagement".
The easiest way to improve customer service is break the union, reduce salary levels and increase the number of FA's per aeroplane. Greater numbers of staff at the same cost.
Also, please make sure your complaint goes to the airline. The only way things will change is if enough people start to put it in writing.
"breaking the union" is not a very smart tactic. Dealing with individuals is more expensive than dealing with a union. QF would prefer a complaisant union. Employees want an intelligent union that can bargain and find common ground. I'm quite sure there is deadwood in QF staff but don't try and remove it this way. As for wages and conditions, I'm sure there are creative solutions to this.
Want an example? Look at Melbourne's dock strike. Patricks went in with guard dogs and scab labour. Today the union is back in control of the port, but costs are down and container movements are double what they were. Its now internationally competitive, and the union, wages and conditions are still there. Look at Southwest Airlines as well. You don't NEED to break unions.
Furthermore, one of the reasons I liked flying on QF in the 70's was because I preferred being looked after by a safe competent Australian crew, capable of talking intelligently and politly to passengers, and not a twenty something Thai general's spoiled daughter (not meaning to pick on Thai specifically).
If it was possible to pay a relatively small premium (say $200) to turn the clock back to 1970's style QF service, then I would do it in a flash. Sadly, I don't think anyone provides this anymore.
Want an example? Look at Melbourne's dock strike. Patricks went in with guard dogs and scab labour. Today the union is back in control of the port, but costs are down and container movements are double what they were. Its now internationally competitive, and the union, wages and conditions are still there. Look at Southwest Airlines as well. You don't NEED to break unions.
Furthermore, one of the reasons I liked flying on QF in the 70's was because I preferred being looked after by a safe competent Australian crew, capable of talking intelligently and politly to passengers, and not a twenty something Thai general's spoiled daughter (not meaning to pick on Thai specifically).
If it was possible to pay a relatively small premium (say $200) to turn the clock back to 1970's style QF service, then I would do it in a flash. Sadly, I don't think anyone provides this anymore.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
The easiest way to improve customer service is break the union, reduce salary levels and increase the number of FA's per aeroplane. Greater numbers of staff at the same cost.
Dixon is an mincing machine for staff.
His tactics are fairly unimaginative - reduce staff costs to the lowest possible levels, using the cheapest staff he can get his hands on - to try to maintain "profits".
This type of action is obviously limited, as once he's replaced as many staff as possible, this "plan of action" is finished, and it would require some ingenuity...something Dixon appears to lack.
Which is WHY he is leaving soon.
The Six Million Dollar man had only ONE plan - sell off the farm.
Mission almost accomplished, Geoff!
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Salary Myth
Let's clear something up ...Qantas Cabin Crew are well paid..NOT OVERPAID..The wages are in line with what other airlines pay their crew.The reason most other carriers have a better crew/pax ratio than Qantas is simple...THEY WANT TO PROVIDE EXCELLENT SERVICE,Qantas doesn't.
I talk to a lot of other crew from other airlines and I am here to tell you we earn no more(and sometimes less) than other carriers.Wages are commensurate with the comparative cost of living in each country.Compare apples with apples please.
While we are the subject of wages lets have a look at QF management.For a work force of 35,000 there are over 700 managers receiving excessive wages for running a third rate airline.Any business is only as good as its management allows it to be.Cabin crew are small cogs in a big machine and have very little control over the basics required for a good airline.
Delays, breakdowns, an inflight entertainment that doesn't entertain.A lack of basics like: childrens packs, P/C,J/C menus,blankets pillows, dry ginger ale ,tomato juice,tabasco,headsets,enough wine.
When you are at 35,000 feet and you run out of or don't have these basics you can't go outside to the local grocer and get them.
I now make Apology PAs as soon as we level off for the stuff we don't have.What else can I do?
If someone can tell me how to make things better I would love to hear it because I have just about given up.I am so totally limited by what I can do I am driven to distraction.I JUST WANT TO DO MY JOB WELL BUT I AM NOT GIVEN THE RESOURCES!!!!
I talk to a lot of other crew from other airlines and I am here to tell you we earn no more(and sometimes less) than other carriers.Wages are commensurate with the comparative cost of living in each country.Compare apples with apples please.
While we are the subject of wages lets have a look at QF management.For a work force of 35,000 there are over 700 managers receiving excessive wages for running a third rate airline.Any business is only as good as its management allows it to be.Cabin crew are small cogs in a big machine and have very little control over the basics required for a good airline.
Delays, breakdowns, an inflight entertainment that doesn't entertain.A lack of basics like: childrens packs, P/C,J/C menus,blankets pillows, dry ginger ale ,tomato juice,tabasco,headsets,enough wine.
When you are at 35,000 feet and you run out of or don't have these basics you can't go outside to the local grocer and get them.
I now make Apology PAs as soon as we level off for the stuff we don't have.What else can I do?
If someone can tell me how to make things better I would love to hear it because I have just about given up.I am so totally limited by what I can do I am driven to distraction.I JUST WANT TO DO MY JOB WELL BUT I AM NOT GIVEN THE RESOURCES!!!!
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Leave !!! and take Surfside6 with you, give us all a break and stop your incessant whining, I for one am getting tired of your it.
Your job before departure is to check your stores, if they are short then re-order. I have seen on more than one occassion an aircraft delayed for a crew meal to be delivered, show the same consideration for the pax's and don't go until you have your full bottle of Tabasco sauce.
And I say again empty a few crew bags and you will probably have enough wine and when a pax asks for a beer and you are saving 2 cans for each of the crew at your destination, don't tell him that you have run out, and when a F/Class pax asks for another appetizer tell him that you and the rest of the crew have just finished eating them.
Get serious a lot more is seen then you imagine.
Your job before departure is to check your stores, if they are short then re-order. I have seen on more than one occassion an aircraft delayed for a crew meal to be delivered, show the same consideration for the pax's and don't go until you have your full bottle of Tabasco sauce.
And I say again empty a few crew bags and you will probably have enough wine and when a pax asks for a beer and you are saving 2 cans for each of the crew at your destination, don't tell him that you have run out, and when a F/Class pax asks for another appetizer tell him that you and the rest of the crew have just finished eating them.
Get serious a lot more is seen then you imagine.
You make some pretty interesting accusations Socks. I would have thought that QF was a wake up to all that forty years ago and put a stop to it.
However the only way QF is going to recover decent service is for the market to punish it.
QF gets away with its activities because it hogs capacity - some one has to fly QF because there are not enough seats on competing carriers.
Open the skies and no one will fly Qantas. Punish the company and punish the investors for being stupid enough to elect the Board that appointed the CEO.
Qantas is rotten to the core. I just hope it implodes before we havea big smoking hole in the ground.
However the only way QF is going to recover decent service is for the market to punish it.
QF gets away with its activities because it hogs capacity - some one has to fly QF because there are not enough seats on competing carriers.
Open the skies and no one will fly Qantas. Punish the company and punish the investors for being stupid enough to elect the Board that appointed the CEO.
Qantas is rotten to the core. I just hope it implodes before we havea big smoking hole in the ground.
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Clarification/Socks
You delay an aircraft for aircraft stores and you can kiss your job goodbye.More often than not you reorder stores in transit and guess what ?...nil stock.
Last edited by DEFCON4; 24th Feb 2005 at 00:42.
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The company is at fault again they allow the crew to have two cans each, so why would they give them to pax's if they are going to miss out. And when the crew use some lame excuse like the economy class pax's drank all the first class wine the company accepts it. PLEASE !!!
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Sunfish is right........
For once I have to agree with Sunfish! With good-will on both sides, much could have been done to cure the ails that are afflict Qantas. After all, if you want to know how to fix or change a procedure or work practice, just ask the people at the coal face, not the space cadets just out of university with their newly minted degrees but without an ounce of worldly common sense or business acumen.
I have posted before that the current and immediate past Qantas 'management' is to be condemned for its lack of good sense since Qantas and TN were merged, or whatever it is called. In 1993, there were two pilot groups and two flight attendant groups. It's now 2005, and guess what? There are still two pilot groups and two F/A groups operating and working to two compleyely differenet work rules, procedures etc etc. Surely at the top of the management list was an item to sit with the unions and negotiate their way through the tomes of bull$hit so as to unite thediffering groups of common interest and at the same time deliver Qantas worthwhile savings as a result of modern work practices and so on and so forth. Jobs could have been protected, the punters would be better served and happy, and the shareholders would still have been happy, or even happie . Did these morons do this? They opted to retain the divisions between the work groups, play each off against the other, and expect themn to do a lot more with less. And when it all became too hard, they simply blew millions by setting up Australian Airlines and Jetstar to plod along in a divisive manner. I don't think that that is very smart. It would have made eminent sense to cure the ills instead of letting the patient die by a thousand cuts; I think that is what the likes of GD want as they were never able to cope with the retention of QF and the demise of TN. Why would anyone in their right senses want to resurrect an old and unimaginative business name like Australian Airlines?
That said, I recently returned Qantas J class from Hong Kong. The service was appalling, and not worthy of being described as 'premium class'. I thought that we were by mistake on an AA charter - it was as dry as chips. The FA's did not deserve to have their jobs. No point in telling people at Qantas as nothing seems to change. Yet the searvice on the way up was splendid, and couldn't be criticised. There is really something very seriously wrong in what was once a grand airline that was second to none. Shame, shame, shame!!
I have posted before that the current and immediate past Qantas 'management' is to be condemned for its lack of good sense since Qantas and TN were merged, or whatever it is called. In 1993, there were two pilot groups and two flight attendant groups. It's now 2005, and guess what? There are still two pilot groups and two F/A groups operating and working to two compleyely differenet work rules, procedures etc etc. Surely at the top of the management list was an item to sit with the unions and negotiate their way through the tomes of bull$hit so as to unite thediffering groups of common interest and at the same time deliver Qantas worthwhile savings as a result of modern work practices and so on and so forth. Jobs could have been protected, the punters would be better served and happy, and the shareholders would still have been happy, or even happie . Did these morons do this? They opted to retain the divisions between the work groups, play each off against the other, and expect themn to do a lot more with less. And when it all became too hard, they simply blew millions by setting up Australian Airlines and Jetstar to plod along in a divisive manner. I don't think that that is very smart. It would have made eminent sense to cure the ills instead of letting the patient die by a thousand cuts; I think that is what the likes of GD want as they were never able to cope with the retention of QF and the demise of TN. Why would anyone in their right senses want to resurrect an old and unimaginative business name like Australian Airlines?
That said, I recently returned Qantas J class from Hong Kong. The service was appalling, and not worthy of being described as 'premium class'. I thought that we were by mistake on an AA charter - it was as dry as chips. The FA's did not deserve to have their jobs. No point in telling people at Qantas as nothing seems to change. Yet the searvice on the way up was splendid, and couldn't be criticised. There is really something very seriously wrong in what was once a grand airline that was second to none. Shame, shame, shame!!
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To whom it may concern ???
Well do your job and assist the next crew and check your inventory before you land so it can be ordered early, what's the point of having a cabin manager on board if they don't manage their staff.
If you don't order you want know.
Well do your job and assist the next crew and check your inventory before you land so it can be ordered early, what's the point of having a cabin manager on board if they don't manage their staff.
If you don't order you want know.
Last edited by socks; 24th Feb 2005 at 00:42.
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Until recently Sunfish, I had developed a greater respect for your writing. You lost some of your "Sydney-centric" complaining and your insicive comments about unions and management were well put. You have however lost me with this one poorly framed jab:
Thats just not true, fella. Qantas has some serious problems with management and a few slack or disillusioned hosties, but generally we are all good people who are trying desparately to do our job to the best of our ability.
Comments like that one are not particularly helpful.
Qantas is rotten to the core. I just hope it implodes before we havea big smoking hole in the ground.
Comments like that one are not particularly helpful.
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More details just to hand.
The aircraft left 10 minutes early and the captain thanked the pax for their speedy work.
No turbulence other than normal without too much reliance on the seat belt signs.
There was 2 men and one woman and the 2 fella's were "Right snooty". (His words not mine.) The lady was very nice according to my mates' new wife.
My mate has done a lot of flying world wide and was returning from Europe at the time and has not had such a poorly serviced flight in years.
I'm afraid he has joined the "Leaving Qantas in Droves" Club.
I on the other hand have experienced the other side of QF last year to and from LAX from Brisbane and both crews were just fantastic. The lady in the Qantas Club in that dingy little hole in LAX was a different matter all together. She obviously graduated with honours from the Geoff Dixon School of People Management. She could learn a few things from the crew at the club in T2. They are excellent value and a credit to QF. Double thumbs up to them.
What is GD's background anyway?
TBT
The aircraft left 10 minutes early and the captain thanked the pax for their speedy work.
No turbulence other than normal without too much reliance on the seat belt signs.
There was 2 men and one woman and the 2 fella's were "Right snooty". (His words not mine.) The lady was very nice according to my mates' new wife.
My mate has done a lot of flying world wide and was returning from Europe at the time and has not had such a poorly serviced flight in years.
I'm afraid he has joined the "Leaving Qantas in Droves" Club.
I on the other hand have experienced the other side of QF last year to and from LAX from Brisbane and both crews were just fantastic. The lady in the Qantas Club in that dingy little hole in LAX was a different matter all together. She obviously graduated with honours from the Geoff Dixon School of People Management. She could learn a few things from the crew at the club in T2. They are excellent value and a credit to QF. Double thumbs up to them.
What is GD's background anyway?
TBT
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I'm with you Schnauzer.
I do around 150-200 flights domestically per year and have found the staff to be excellent. A few rotten ones (I reckon at the top) doesn't mean they are rotten to the core.
I'm not telling you to shut up mind you. Free speech is what we enjoy in Aus, and I for one would miss your insights and thoughts. It would be a pretty boring old world if we couldn't "mix it up" every now and then.
TBT
I do around 150-200 flights domestically per year and have found the staff to be excellent. A few rotten ones (I reckon at the top) doesn't mean they are rotten to the core.
I'm not telling you to shut up mind you. Free speech is what we enjoy in Aus, and I for one would miss your insights and thoughts. It would be a pretty boring old world if we couldn't "mix it up" every now and then.
TBT
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Ahh yes, goodwill - that intangible ASSET that costs good management very little, but is returned several fold by contented staff, proud of their company.
Dixon might look like a "good thing" to the shareholders, because of the fiscal returns he's providing them - but he is NOT a good people manager, and the damage he is doing/has already done to QANTAS is going to be reflected for many years after he is long gone.
But our little terrier, socks (a popular name for small, black dogs with white feet!!), might just be on to something.
I wonder if the pax supplies are being short-loaded by people in catering who are "disposing" of the excess.
It was happening in Air Cambodge years ago. The guy supplying the wine used to salvage the used bottles, refill them with cheap bulk wine, and flog off the genuine stuff, whilst charging the airline the premium price.
If stocks are running short, then it's either because insufficient supplies are being provided in the first place, or
because whomever is responsible for ordering the supplies is charging QF full price, but not delivering to the aircraft the paid for quantities!
Sounds like an investigation might be warranted.
I remember the case many years ago, in Sydney or Melbourne, where one of the airline catering staff also owned an Italian restaurant.
No prizes for guessing where most of his perishables came from!!
You might be more useful than you actually appear, socksie
Dixon might look like a "good thing" to the shareholders, because of the fiscal returns he's providing them - but he is NOT a good people manager, and the damage he is doing/has already done to QANTAS is going to be reflected for many years after he is long gone.
But our little terrier, socks (a popular name for small, black dogs with white feet!!), might just be on to something.
I wonder if the pax supplies are being short-loaded by people in catering who are "disposing" of the excess.
It was happening in Air Cambodge years ago. The guy supplying the wine used to salvage the used bottles, refill them with cheap bulk wine, and flog off the genuine stuff, whilst charging the airline the premium price.
If stocks are running short, then it's either because insufficient supplies are being provided in the first place, or
because whomever is responsible for ordering the supplies is charging QF full price, but not delivering to the aircraft the paid for quantities!
Sounds like an investigation might be warranted.
I remember the case many years ago, in Sydney or Melbourne, where one of the airline catering staff also owned an Italian restaurant.
No prizes for guessing where most of his perishables came from!!
You might be more useful than you actually appear, socksie
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I'm afraid not Kapt. Socks is way off the mark. Pilfering used to be common place, but these days happens VERY VERY rarely. QF have the right to search employees bags - it's part of our employment contract. ALL employees are made aware of it.
Don't get me wrong, there is the ocassional bottle of plonk going into the overnight bag, but 99.9% of QF employees realise that a $7 bottle of wine just aint worth the salaries that we are paid.
Socks wouldn't know if his backside had just been blown off by an anti tank weapon. He is just plain wrong and no one should give him the time of day.
Don't get me wrong, there is the ocassional bottle of plonk going into the overnight bag, but 99.9% of QF employees realise that a $7 bottle of wine just aint worth the salaries that we are paid.
Socks wouldn't know if his backside had just been blown off by an anti tank weapon. He is just plain wrong and no one should give him the time of day.