The Regulatory Reform Program will drift along forever
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Swiss regulator
Kharon
Check up on how the Swiss regulator adopted the EU EASA regulatory suite. Switzerland is not an EU member.
Result: acceptance by easa is easy. As would FAA acceptance. Swiss ain't dumb - keep the money in the bank.
Adopting the NZ rules might not be a bad idea.
The difference is the Swiss and NZ regulator wanted to do it. Imagine the resistance casa would put up! I fear there is such an adversarial relationship between industry and casa, regardless of who is right or wrong, that is damaging the industry and its reputation in the world.
It also needs explaining how the EU could integrate all EU countries under 1 set of regs. Yet 23 years and still waiting here just to update ours? We only needed to copy FAA or EASA really.
I'd guess casa would discuss the same issues over a few jars at brekky creek regularly too.
Check up on how the Swiss regulator adopted the EU EASA regulatory suite. Switzerland is not an EU member.
Result: acceptance by easa is easy. As would FAA acceptance. Swiss ain't dumb - keep the money in the bank.
Adopting the NZ rules might not be a bad idea.
The difference is the Swiss and NZ regulator wanted to do it. Imagine the resistance casa would put up! I fear there is such an adversarial relationship between industry and casa, regardless of who is right or wrong, that is damaging the industry and its reputation in the world.
It also needs explaining how the EU could integrate all EU countries under 1 set of regs. Yet 23 years and still waiting here just to update ours? We only needed to copy FAA or EASA really.
I'd guess casa would discuss the same issues over a few jars at brekky creek regularly too.
Last edited by halfmanhalfbiscuit; 2nd Oct 2012 at 21:30. Reason: How many elephants?
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Different culture?
Since moving back to Australia I've noticed a difference in culture between the two places. NZ seems to have a different value of "reasonable" in the phrase "safety at reasonable cost". I'm all for regulatory reform, but I think the NZ approach would slightly miss the mark here.
My 2c is gone, as am I...
O8
My 2c is gone, as am I...
O8
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Funny about that
HMHB # 244 - It also needs explaining how the EU could integrate all EU countries under 1 set of regs.
O8: Since moving back to Australia I've noticed a difference in culture between the two places. NZ seems to have a different value of "reasonable" in the phrase "safety at reasonable cost". I'm all for regulatory reform, but I think the NZ approach would slightly miss the mark here.
"Another goal is to “find a way to make regulations less burdensome,” says Secretary for Transport Martin Matthews. This will mean redesigning the way rules are developed. Before any rule is drafted, officials will need to “take a hard look at the regulatory impact,” and ensure that benefits outweigh the costs, he says.
There will also be a reduced reliance on rules. “The temptation is to immediately pull the rule-making lever” to address any problem, but Matthews says there should be an effort to “encourage people to think more laterally about other ways to address issues.”
The reform process involves the CAA and Ministry of Transport. The CAA expects to release options for a new framework in the first quarter of 2012, says Chairman Nigel Gould. Industry is being consulted, and any change will depend on “how receptive the industry is to taking more responsibility” for regulation.
The idea is to make the CAA “more of a partner [to the aviation industry] than a regulator or enforcer,” says Gould. This means “looking at ways things can be done rather than looking at a rule book and saying it can’t be done.” The partnership approach would also apply to certification.
By increasing its engagement with the industry, the CAA should be able to catch and correct problems before they become serious, rather than focusing on enforcement after a rule has been violated, says Gould. He wants the CAA to regard the attempt to solve a problem as a failure if litigation results."
No you would need a total clean out first of all the trough feeders, current board members, executive managers..etc to affect a total cultural change before you could even consider such a reform and change of direction!
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...hat-about.html
Don't worry blackie you don't have long till the front bar opens!
Last edited by Sarcs; 2nd Oct 2012 at 23:34.
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FFS will you people make up your minds.
JQ - we want less rules
West Wind - we want more rules.
Barry Hempel - we don't know what rules we want
Or do you just like arguing
JQ - we want less rules
West Wind - we want more rules.
Barry Hempel - we don't know what rules we want
Or do you just like arguing
Last edited by blackhand; 2nd Oct 2012 at 22:52.
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Have a look at the latest dirivative of Reg 206 on the other D&G thread.
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...s-toolbox.html
Can we now assume the LAME's toolbox is now cargo by definition requiring an AOC?
Over to you blackfinger.
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...s-toolbox.html
Can we now assume the LAME's toolbox is now cargo by definition requiring an AOC?
Over to you blackfinger.
Last edited by Frank Arouet; 3rd Oct 2012 at 23:02.
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Best play on words so far. Beats mine. I asume the latex is SM for the rectal inspection.
I'm terrified luggage may now be "cargo". I'll have to leave the leader of the opposition at home if this continues.
Pray tell, with your legalese, what does it all mean?
I'm terrified luggage may now be "cargo". I'll have to leave the leader of the opposition at home if this continues.
Pray tell, with your legalese, what does it all mean?
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@frank
Haven't had time to study it much at this time as I'm involved in a fight to the death with the regulator over a matter that may be heading to the DPP.
Suffice to say that one hopes your interpretation is not the intent. Time will tell
Haven't had time to study it much at this time as I'm involved in a fight to the death with the regulator over a matter that may be heading to the DPP.
Suffice to say that one hopes your interpretation is not the intent. Time will tell
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Aspices juris non sunt jura
(the extremes of the law are not law).
Interesting point; the common thread through the examples quoted is not so much to do with the Regs as they stand: but rather with the way the 'rules' were manipulated. In every case you cite, the spirit and intent of several laws were demonstrably abused and translated to an extreme limit, as required.
I don't believe 'we' actually understand what we seek in terms of 'reform'. For my two bob's worth it would be rules which cannot be twisted and misused; as, where and when it suits. The use of criminal law should either be restricted to use by the DPP in a Court process or abandoned. The use of Administrative crucifixion under Rafferty's rules is an abomination when it is cynically used to affect the livelihood of the poor sap in the dock.
Clearly defined, outcome based regulation applied with sanity, discretion and in the interests of the industry is not too big an ask. Is it?
BH # 248 - FFS will you people make up your minds.
I don't believe 'we' actually understand what we seek in terms of 'reform'. For my two bob's worth it would be rules which cannot be twisted and misused; as, where and when it suits. The use of criminal law should either be restricted to use by the DPP in a Court process or abandoned. The use of Administrative crucifixion under Rafferty's rules is an abomination when it is cynically used to affect the livelihood of the poor sap in the dock.
Clearly defined, outcome based regulation applied with sanity, discretion and in the interests of the industry is not too big an ask. Is it?
Last edited by Kharon; 3rd Oct 2012 at 22:09.
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@frank
3.1.1 Under the new CASR regulations an operation conducted for the carriage of the possessions of the operator or the pilot in command for the purpose of business or trade will not be considered a cargo transport operation and will not require an AOC.
3.1.1 Under the new CASR regulations an operation conducted for the carriage of the possessions of the operator or the pilot in command for the purpose of business or trade will not be considered a cargo transport operation and will not require an AOC.
Brilliance unlimited.....
One has to wonder why such an operation... as described in the BH statement... needed to have an AOC in the first place ,FFS !! 
It is self evident ...and always has been...that the electrician with his tools and light bulbs was going to conduct his "commerce" ( as if it was any of CASA's business)
totally unrelated for the flight to the job.
So have they finally 'strained the brain' and done something about it.
Bravo
Exactly how many effing years did that take.? And how many folk got shot along the way.? And at what cost in time, angst and dollars to all. 
It is self evident ...and always has been...that the electrician with his tools and light bulbs was going to conduct his "commerce" ( as if it was any of CASA's business)
totally unrelated for the flight to the job.
So have they finally 'strained the brain' and done something about it.
Bravo
Exactly how many effing years did that take.? And how many folk got shot along the way.? And at what cost in time, angst and dollars to all.
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Exciting indeed
Blackfinger, you said to @frank (and I dont think Frank likes people calling him the @ symbol)
Which regulator do tell? CAA or CASA? If it is CASA and you go to the DPP then I am very excited! Why? Because I look forward to the 'scope, flavor and tone' of your posts in a year or two from now after your personal being, finances, reputation, mental stabilty and even your bottom have been torn asunder as a result of you poking the CASA in the eyes by going to the DPP! Have fun!
Now, where is my popcorn, beer, recliner chair and of course some bottom cream for Blackie!!
@frank
Haven't had time to study it much at this time as I'm involved in a fight to the death with the regulator over a matter that may be heading to the DPP.
Suffice to say that one hopes your interpretation is not the intent. Time will tell
Haven't had time to study it much at this time as I'm involved in a fight to the death with the regulator over a matter that may be heading to the DPP.
Suffice to say that one hopes your interpretation is not the intent. Time will tell
Now, where is my popcorn, beer, recliner chair and of course some bottom cream for Blackie!!
Last edited by gobbledock; 4th Oct 2012 at 10:06. Reason: Halfmanhalfbiscuits elephants are still in the room and I was avoiding them. Watch out Blackie!!
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Have a read of this summary by Paul Phelan
John Quadrio pulls the plug – aviationadvertiser.com.au
It's a good summary of the typical behavior.
Look forward to a fax or email at 5pm on a Friday or holiday eve. Christmas is a favourite too.
You may even be called 'somewhat delusional' as somebody was in a recent senate estimates.
John Quadrio pulls the plug – aviationadvertiser.com.au
It's a good summary of the typical behavior.
Look forward to a fax or email at 5pm on a Friday or holiday eve. Christmas is a favourite too.
You may even be called 'somewhat delusional' as somebody was in a recent senate estimates.
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A lucky country, I wonder.
I notice Shorten just had his bottom smacked :- Justice Heydon wrote in his judgment that, "The respondent’s position is typical of the mindless and rancorous technicality which characterises litigation about industrial law". Just change industrial to aviation and it just about says it all.
The JQ case like Lockhart River will not just go away. Robin Speed is president of the Rule of Law Association of Australia, his opinion seems completely vindicated when you look at a wider picture.
Robin Speed - Opinion.
The JQ case like Lockhart River will not just go away. Robin Speed is president of the Rule of Law Association of Australia, his opinion seems completely vindicated when you look at a wider picture.
The consequences are serious. The first is that Australia will cease to be a world leader in being governed in accordance with the rule of law, and instead become ruled by law (there being a fundamental difference). Secondly, the rule of law will be progressively replaced by the rule of the regulator, the antithesis of the rule of law.
One of the other signs of the rule of the regulator is the attempt to reverse the onus of proof so that the regulators can get convictions to send a clear message to the rest of the community. The Australian courts are a real impediment to regulators in this regard as they insist that no one is presumed to be guilty unless proved so.
However, if an Act reverses the onus of proof a court can do nothing. The legislative attempts to reverse the onus of proof come in several forms, often behind a government announcement (regardless of political persuasion) that it is "streamlining" or "codifying" the existing laws. This is often accompanied by government publicity demonising the group to be subject to the new law. It is fundamental to the Australian way of life that everyone, whether an alleged terrorist or member of organised crime group, or an ordinary Australian, is presumed to be innocent until the prosecution proves otherwise. Any attempts to weaken that principle must be strongly and loudly resisted. Robin Speed.
One of the other signs of the rule of the regulator is the attempt to reverse the onus of proof so that the regulators can get convictions to send a clear message to the rest of the community. The Australian courts are a real impediment to regulators in this regard as they insist that no one is presumed to be guilty unless proved so.
However, if an Act reverses the onus of proof a court can do nothing. The legislative attempts to reverse the onus of proof come in several forms, often behind a government announcement (regardless of political persuasion) that it is "streamlining" or "codifying" the existing laws. This is often accompanied by government publicity demonising the group to be subject to the new law. It is fundamental to the Australian way of life that everyone, whether an alleged terrorist or member of organised crime group, or an ordinary Australian, is presumed to be innocent until the prosecution proves otherwise. Any attempts to weaken that principle must be strongly and loudly resisted. Robin Speed.
Last edited by Kharon; 4th Oct 2012 at 22:18.
fraction of the cost
Yesterday I threw out the proposed Part 119, dated 2003 that had 2007 as the fully implemented date.
We now have Part 119 (2013 version) and all the other operations CASRs with a fully implementation date of mid 2017.
It seems that we have a 10 year cycle. Maybe 2027?
Just had a look at the "new" Compliance Statement. Some CARs have been deleted and other CARs added.
How come we;
1. did not have to show compliance with the additional CARs for the last 10 years; and
2. why did we have to show compliance with the deleted CARs for the last 10 years.
What has changed?
I guess we will have a another new Compliance Statement when the CASRs are made law.
How many incarnations of a Compliance Statement can we have before someone gets it correct?
Last edited by 601; 5th Oct 2012 at 02:41.
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Tomorrow!.
About 1400 EST tomorrow, marks the end of an era. It will quietly happen in the Senate and your comments on this subject have made it happen. Brava Ppruners, well done!, well done indeed.
I will not bang on about the sad state this industry is in, or the governmental agencies which have; in no small way, contributed to it's near demise. My thoughts, hopes and care for an industry I love, have been shared with some great folk here; infinitum; et tedium (and probably, ad nauseam).
My hope is that just for a short while, we can all stick together and rid ourselves of the invidious, often incestuous, expensive, non productive,. parasite on this industry, which has become our Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
Tomorrow is a start, the 22nd gives a slim (60/40 against) chance – the rest boys and girls; is really - up to you.
Selah – sleep well (if you can).
PS, the old man says Cheers (then rasps "about bloody time": Kilkenny rules. OK).
With the indulgence of T28 –
Macbeth:
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
I will not bang on about the sad state this industry is in, or the governmental agencies which have; in no small way, contributed to it's near demise. My thoughts, hopes and care for an industry I love, have been shared with some great folk here; infinitum; et tedium (and probably, ad nauseam).
My hope is that just for a short while, we can all stick together and rid ourselves of the invidious, often incestuous, expensive, non productive,. parasite on this industry, which has become our Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
Tomorrow is a start, the 22nd gives a slim (60/40 against) chance – the rest boys and girls; is really - up to you.
Selah – sleep well (if you can).
PS, the old man says Cheers (then rasps "about bloody time": Kilkenny rules. OK).
With the indulgence of T28 –
Macbeth:
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
