Qantas Cadets flying for the Regionals
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Qantas Cadets flying for the Regionals
Gday all,
I looking for discussions/opinions on the topic of Qantas Cadets that have been placed onto some of our regional airlines to gain experience for a couple of years before going back to Qantas. Im not using this post to bag the cadet program or Qantas. However I believe that the pilots that are working hard out there trying to build up time ect are being disadvantaged as a cadet placement in a regional is effectively one less place for a pilot who is out there busting his/her backside to try to get somewhere. Also when the cadet has done his two years he is replaced by another cadet and the trend goes on. I have been lucky enough to already have a position with a regional so this doesn’t effect me personally however I have see the moral changes in the flight crew who seem to be “babysitting” the cadets and some of these guys cant even get through Qantas recruitment stage 1. The point I’m making is that in the opinion of Qantas some of these captains are unsuitable for employment with Qn but are good enough to train their Cadets. This doesn’t make sense to me. Some might say jealousy…well maybe a little but we all know that cadets are a fact of life and I think most of us accept this.
Should the regionals employ cadets, effectively turning their back on the guy who has worked so hard ?
I looking for discussions/opinions on the topic of Qantas Cadets that have been placed onto some of our regional airlines to gain experience for a couple of years before going back to Qantas. Im not using this post to bag the cadet program or Qantas. However I believe that the pilots that are working hard out there trying to build up time ect are being disadvantaged as a cadet placement in a regional is effectively one less place for a pilot who is out there busting his/her backside to try to get somewhere. Also when the cadet has done his two years he is replaced by another cadet and the trend goes on. I have been lucky enough to already have a position with a regional so this doesn’t effect me personally however I have see the moral changes in the flight crew who seem to be “babysitting” the cadets and some of these guys cant even get through Qantas recruitment stage 1. The point I’m making is that in the opinion of Qantas some of these captains are unsuitable for employment with Qn but are good enough to train their Cadets. This doesn’t make sense to me. Some might say jealousy…well maybe a little but we all know that cadets are a fact of life and I think most of us accept this.
Should the regionals employ cadets, effectively turning their back on the guy who has worked so hard ?
..“babysitting” the cadets.. And the Captain won't be babysitting a new recruit out of GA?
I don't think you can generalise by saying the crews doing the babysitting are 'unsuitable for employment' with QF. Obviously QF think highly enough of the operation, and their people, to place the cadets there in the first place.
However, with the large number of pilots available to the major airlines, they can pick and choose whom they consider the best of the best. This unfortunately means a lot of good and skilled people will miss out.
Difficult to be asked to help someone into the career you have missed out on yourself. But as professional pilots, we are required to pass on our experience to those 'entrusted in our care'.
As for a cadet taking the position of another pilot. True. But the cadet won't be joining QF for 2 years. In that time, QF are taking on other pilots directly. Everyone gets to move up the chain somewhere. The cadets will not get commands during their time with the regionals. Therefore the regionals will always have to recruit wisely to ensure they have a pool of experience available for promotion.
I don't think you can generalise by saying the crews doing the babysitting are 'unsuitable for employment' with QF. Obviously QF think highly enough of the operation, and their people, to place the cadets there in the first place.
However, with the large number of pilots available to the major airlines, they can pick and choose whom they consider the best of the best. This unfortunately means a lot of good and skilled people will miss out.
Difficult to be asked to help someone into the career you have missed out on yourself. But as professional pilots, we are required to pass on our experience to those 'entrusted in our care'.
As for a cadet taking the position of another pilot. True. But the cadet won't be joining QF for 2 years. In that time, QF are taking on other pilots directly. Everyone gets to move up the chain somewhere. The cadets will not get commands during their time with the regionals. Therefore the regionals will always have to recruit wisely to ensure they have a pool of experience available for promotion.
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However I believe that the pilots that are working hard out there trying to build up time ect are being disadvantaged as a cadet placement in a regional is effectively one less place for a pilot who is out there busting his/her backside to try to get somewhere
By the way, do you think that Qantas Cadet's don't have to bust a gut to get somewhere?
They are subject to constant testing and checks throughout their training and then whilst on secondment to a regional. After all this despite the large outlay there is no guarantee of a position with Qantas!
The level of professionalism and motivation exhibited by these individuals, is also far higher than anything I have ever seen displayed by those who have had to "bust a gut" to get a position with a regional.
I have see the moral changes in the flight crew who seem to be “babysitting” the cadets and some of these guys cant even get through Qantas recruitment stage 1.
Do you mean morale changes? These are two totally different words you realise.
Cheers, HH.
Last edited by Howard Hughes; 18th Feb 2005 at 02:54.
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By the way, do you think that Qantas Cadet's don't have to bust a gut to get somwhere?
Though if buying beers for the boys at Coogee is considered hard work..... then maybe!
bbbzzzzzzz....yourshoutagainkid...bbbbzbzzbzzzbzbzzzz
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I was going to say something worthwhile to Mr Buzzys comments, but then i realised some people cant be helped! And after seeing most of Mr Buzzys posts, they all seem to be designed to "get someone to bite".
Grandpa Aerotart
And as QF owns the regional in question why is it an issue...what would you expect QF to do?
The only truly obscene part of the Cadet program is that they, the cadet (or parents), have to pay for it....rather than what has been happening in the UK for over 30yrs.
The only truly obscene part of the Cadet program is that they, the cadet (or parents), have to pay for it....rather than what has been happening in the UK for over 30yrs.
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sadly Money talks when it comes to QF cadets, I lost a good apprentice to the QF cadet scheme, he never had an interest in flying, just liked fixing things, would have made a good skilled tradesman, untill his came across $100K+ from the family. sure enough, hes straight in to the cadet scheme, with No prior flight experience.
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I just can't understand why any airline in Australia would need a cadet scheme. There is no need for cadets in any industry unless there is a severe shortage of qualified candidates.
Wouldn't this industry be just that little bit healthier if the airlines only hired from the current pool of working pilots?
Wouldn't this industry be just that little bit healthier if the airlines only hired from the current pool of working pilots?
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of course there is a need for cadets.
of course there is a need for GA
of course there is a need for Air Force
why?
a) so it can keep those people who like whinging about a particular group happy (gives them something to post about on pprune)
b) so it keeps a balance in the airline - so that there is no one group telling the other how much better they are
c) it gives the airline the choice of 3 groups to pick and choose from.
Just like a particular cadet may not cut the grade for the airline, the same applies for GA and Air Force. Just because you think you are suitably qualified doesnt mean the airline does! Why would an employer of any industry cut its options down, just because a group of people think they deserve a job!
of course there is a need for GA
of course there is a need for Air Force
why?
a) so it can keep those people who like whinging about a particular group happy (gives them something to post about on pprune)
b) so it keeps a balance in the airline - so that there is no one group telling the other how much better they are
c) it gives the airline the choice of 3 groups to pick and choose from.
Just like a particular cadet may not cut the grade for the airline, the same applies for GA and Air Force. Just because you think you are suitably qualified doesnt mean the airline does! Why would an employer of any industry cut its options down, just because a group of people think they deserve a job!
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They should ALL be cadets. Then everyone would know where they are going, or not going.The G.A.operators would not have to operate using low time temporary, negative pilots who do not want to be there. The present system is just one great big , obscene lottery, which populates the aviation world with tempory high risk residents, and increase the accident rate..
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don't blame the kids seizing the "cadet" opportunity, blame the people who created it!
buying a cadetship is no different from buying an endorsement
the people who whinge about either "opportunity" are rarely unaffected people speaking out against injustice - most of them either got knocked back themselves, can't afford it or are presently unaffected but don't want to pay in the future
both forms of "opportunity" are just accountants' tactics for transferring training costs off the corporate balance sheet onto the employees, effectively creating false profits
but here's my question for management types: what benefit, other than nepotism, does a cadet scheme bring, given that it's primary characteristic is avoiding minimum experience requirements?
buying a cadetship is no different from buying an endorsement
the people who whinge about either "opportunity" are rarely unaffected people speaking out against injustice - most of them either got knocked back themselves, can't afford it or are presently unaffected but don't want to pay in the future
both forms of "opportunity" are just accountants' tactics for transferring training costs off the corporate balance sheet onto the employees, effectively creating false profits
but here's my question for management types: what benefit, other than nepotism, does a cadet scheme bring, given that it's primary characteristic is avoiding minimum experience requirements?
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Hey Bushy - not a bad concept.
Think about it, if you did the usual thing of forking out obsene amounts of money to work in GA with NO prospect of actually getting into an airline one day, then hardly anyone would bother.
The result, probably half the amount or less Commercial Licences issued every year. This may have the effect that GA drivers might actually end up making more money than cleaners.
The old supply and demand equation could actually work in the drivers favour for a change.
Think about it, if you did the usual thing of forking out obsene amounts of money to work in GA with NO prospect of actually getting into an airline one day, then hardly anyone would bother.
The result, probably half the amount or less Commercial Licences issued every year. This may have the effect that GA drivers might actually end up making more money than cleaners.
The old supply and demand equation could actually work in the drivers favour for a change.
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The year 2015!
Sitting in the back of an A390 approaching Dar' es Salaam!
If there are still pilots sitting in the pointy bit, who do you want to be sitting behind?
1. The nerd in Bhupal, India, flying your aircraft remotely with a call center job on the side to make ends meet?
2. The QF Cadet?
3 The kid who made good and scared the ****e out of himself in a thundery near Boraloola in 2005?
Sitting in the back of an A390 approaching Dar' es Salaam!
If there are still pilots sitting in the pointy bit, who do you want to be sitting behind?
1. The nerd in Bhupal, India, flying your aircraft remotely with a call center job on the side to make ends meet?
2. The QF Cadet?
3 The kid who made good and scared the ****e out of himself in a thundery near Boraloola in 2005?
The crux of the question posed by Aerocom2 is "Why do regional airlines employ QF cadets instead of qualified G/A pilots?" I didn't understand why companies like Air North would train a cadet only to see him/her depart in two years time. I've since been told that Air North are very happy to have the cadets as most G/A pilots leave after a much shorter time thus causing continual employment problems - the cadets actually give them greater staff stability. The G/A pilots that do stay around are guaranteed a command very quickly.
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Boney
You need much less obscene ammounts of money to qualify and be useful in G.A., and you get paid about the same as a teacher. Most of the ripoffs are associated with turbine and airline flying,
You need much less obscene ammounts of money to qualify and be useful in G.A., and you get paid about the same as a teacher. Most of the ripoffs are associated with turbine and airline flying,
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Come on Cunningham! Of course you need Cadets! You need the blood line to continue to Man the top line positions! First its into the union to lead and destroy conditions while scoring brownie poiints for the company! Then of course the ultimate goal, Manager pilots the esteemed Cadet Mafia! Then its open slather! Before retiring to let the young blood come through again!
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Exeptionally pervasive sense of de-ja vu. Posted on this topic ... must be 12 months ago or so. Will try again.
And before anyone sticks their head up and suggests that I haven't been there and done it, 17 years in GA (several in the right and left hand seats of regional airliners) will suffice, I think, as a knowlege base.
Just from a strictly self serving point of view, anyone looking over the fence of a Regional, at a cadet hopping into a RHS that they want for their very own, remember that a few years ago that cadet would have been hopping into a jump seat of a QF aircraft. He/she is NOT now.
For two years, as this cadet makes his way around the bush and learns a thing or two about the real world, there is an empty jump seat on that QF aircraft that needs filling.
Which seat would you rather fill??
Insert thinking music here for those who need it!!
"But what about those poor buggers who can't get into QF" (I hear you ask)
There is still someone out there who has been able to and there is an empty seat there.
Just have a look at the bigger picture even if it is from a very self centered perpective. Everyone is a winner.
Cadets get untold value from the experience of regional flying and a small sample of the real world...
..and GA pilots get into QF earlier.
Wake up boys and girls and smell the flowers.
PS Let's not have this thread come up again or I will have to learn how to search for my old postings and cut & paste them, there's only a certain number of words that I can type and then I die. I don't want to waste them.
Cheers
Bendy
And before anyone sticks their head up and suggests that I haven't been there and done it, 17 years in GA (several in the right and left hand seats of regional airliners) will suffice, I think, as a knowlege base.
Just from a strictly self serving point of view, anyone looking over the fence of a Regional, at a cadet hopping into a RHS that they want for their very own, remember that a few years ago that cadet would have been hopping into a jump seat of a QF aircraft. He/she is NOT now.
For two years, as this cadet makes his way around the bush and learns a thing or two about the real world, there is an empty jump seat on that QF aircraft that needs filling.
Which seat would you rather fill??
Insert thinking music here for those who need it!!
"But what about those poor buggers who can't get into QF" (I hear you ask)
There is still someone out there who has been able to and there is an empty seat there.
Just have a look at the bigger picture even if it is from a very self centered perpective. Everyone is a winner.
Cadets get untold value from the experience of regional flying and a small sample of the real world...
..and GA pilots get into QF earlier.
Wake up boys and girls and smell the flowers.
PS Let's not have this thread come up again or I will have to learn how to search for my old postings and cut & paste them, there's only a certain number of words that I can type and then I die. I don't want to waste them.
Cheers
Bendy
