Device found in Virgin Blue plane hold
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Remarkable that Brett Godfrey and Huttner are nowhere to be found.
I dare say that they are looking at who they can point the finger at and blame a fall-guy!
Lets see accountability and some leadership here Godfrey and co.
The TWU Airport Organiser has his job to do but at the same time was spot on about Virgin Blue staff not being trained and unable to cope with such a situation.
Now try and imagine that this was a real situation and casualties did result.
Alot of bleach-blondes running around breaking their nails and shrieking while Godfrey denied the situation and tried to blame Geoff Dixon and the media for a beat-up !!
Its about time Brett Godfrey was held accountable for this blatant and obvious oversight.
I dare say that they are looking at who they can point the finger at and blame a fall-guy!
Lets see accountability and some leadership here Godfrey and co.
The TWU Airport Organiser has his job to do but at the same time was spot on about Virgin Blue staff not being trained and unable to cope with such a situation.
Now try and imagine that this was a real situation and casualties did result.
Alot of bleach-blondes running around breaking their nails and shrieking while Godfrey denied the situation and tried to blame Geoff Dixon and the media for a beat-up !!
Its about time Brett Godfrey was held accountable for this blatant and obvious oversight.
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The matter was brought to the attention of the Australian Protective Services which is the first response unit of the Australian Federal Police, within approximately 15 minutes of discovery of the object.
I don't know about you, but I think I'd call 'em in right away, and consider getting the pax off the plane & looking like a fool if it turns out to be nothing, than to dillydally round the joint before taking it into a terminal full of people and then letting the blardy plane fly off again without checking it!
but then, what would i know, I'm only SLF who's done a security/dangerous goods course.....
Sky
PS - I work for neither DJ or QF, and yes, both airlines DO make mistakes.....
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Buster,
They found it once the hold was empty as it was next to the webbing which by this time all the pax and bags were off.
Questionable calls were made but this was determined only after the benefit of hindsight. All procedures are being altered in conjunction with advice and help from the TWU and WorkCover.
Incidences like these high light areas of deficiencies in procedures and training. The bad thing would be if nothing was done about it them. This is not the case this time as a lot was learned and extra precautions are being put in place.
They found it once the hold was empty as it was next to the webbing which by this time all the pax and bags were off.
Questionable calls were made but this was determined only after the benefit of hindsight. All procedures are being altered in conjunction with advice and help from the TWU and WorkCover.
Incidences like these high light areas of deficiencies in procedures and training. The bad thing would be if nothing was done about it them. This is not the case this time as a lot was learned and extra precautions are being put in place.
Read the fine print!
For those people in so much of a hurry to rant about VB that they forgot to read the details, check this...
There are jurisdiction issues here. Maybe the NSW Police Comms Centre were not told immediately but..
Timmeee whatever VB did in this situation you would criticise them, so give it away.
Those people who want to fein outrage at least understand the process before you have a go.
As for baggage handlers carrying a bag to the terminal for Xray. Think about the logic here, they carry hundreds of bags to the terminal every day. Loose bags, boxes and packages often show up on the carousel. What would cause them to think this knotted bag was any different?
REALITY CHECK people, if someone wanted to blow up an aeroplane at ANY Australian airport they could do it. A five, fifteen or two hour notification to the relevant security agency (AFP, APS, OTS) will make no difference.
As for Mr Anderson (the soon to be ex minister)...
he must be taking advice from Dick! 
A NSW Police spokesman last night confirmed police were not told of the incident until one hour and 40 minutes after the discovery.
The matter was brought to the attention of the Australian Protective Services which is the first response unit of the Australian Federal Police, within approximately 15 minutes of discovery of the object.
Those people who want to fein outrage at least understand the process before you have a go.
As for baggage handlers carrying a bag to the terminal for Xray. Think about the logic here, they carry hundreds of bags to the terminal every day. Loose bags, boxes and packages often show up on the carousel. What would cause them to think this knotted bag was any different?
REALITY CHECK people, if someone wanted to blow up an aeroplane at ANY Australian airport they could do it. A five, fifteen or two hour notification to the relevant security agency (AFP, APS, OTS) will make no difference.
As for Mr Anderson (the soon to be ex minister)...
The incendiary device aboard a Virgin airliner appeared to have been a hoax and security would have picked up a real terrorist bomb, Transport Minister John Anderson said today.
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Listening to John Andersons quavering octave and manufactured outrage on the radio today it is clear just how well equipped he is to continue to provide leadership at government level in aviation and transport.
To wrap up the investigation in 24 hours all by himself and declare the whole episode effectively a 'union stunt' is frightening in its simplistic dismissive partisan conclusions.
His abject willingness to embrace 'advice' without objection only serves to underline his own inadequacies - the simplicity sits firmly between John Andersons ears.
Australia and Australian aviation deserves and needs someone with the capacity to grasp more of the technicalities and realities.
Anderson aint it.
To wrap up the investigation in 24 hours all by himself and declare the whole episode effectively a 'union stunt' is frightening in its simplistic dismissive partisan conclusions.
His abject willingness to embrace 'advice' without objection only serves to underline his own inadequacies - the simplicity sits firmly between John Andersons ears.
Australia and Australian aviation deserves and needs someone with the capacity to grasp more of the technicalities and realities.
Anderson aint it.
Collection of quotes:
Are we supposed to think that some thickhead put this in the baggage hold for a joke? If not what was their intention?
A rather interesting and provocative way to make one’s point?
Methinks some disgruntled baggage loader in Maroochydore or Sydney is in for a lot of strife…
Edited to include the following:
It turns out to be a homemade firecracker belonging to a 13-year-old boy in checked baggage.
My humble apologies to the baggage handlers and union for my insinuations.
The package was found lying loose in the baggage hold of the airliner on Monday on flight DJ-747 from Maroochydore to Sydney.
VIRGIN Blue had not trained its workers to cope with an emergency like the discovery of an explosive device on a flight, an airport union said today.
Transport Workers Union (TWU) airport organiser Glenn Nightingale said Virgin Blue had not trained its workers in security procedures.
Mr Nightingale said that after an incident last month in which white powder was found on board a Virgin Blue flight he had met with Virgin's management and asked for security and evacuation training.
"That has not occurred," he said.
Mr Nightingale said the union had met two weeks ago with Prime Minister John Howard to ask for the government and federal police to take control of security training for 10,000 airport workers at the airport.
He rejected suggestions that the union or a union member had deliberately planted the device as a warning.
"That's nonsense, absolutely nonsense," he said.
VIRGIN Blue had not trained its workers to cope with an emergency like the discovery of an explosive device on a flight, an airport union said today.
Transport Workers Union (TWU) airport organiser Glenn Nightingale said Virgin Blue had not trained its workers in security procedures.
Mr Nightingale said that after an incident last month in which white powder was found on board a Virgin Blue flight he had met with Virgin's management and asked for security and evacuation training.
"That has not occurred," he said.
Mr Nightingale said the union had met two weeks ago with Prime Minister John Howard to ask for the government and federal police to take control of security training for 10,000 airport workers at the airport.
He rejected suggestions that the union or a union member had deliberately planted the device as a warning.
"That's nonsense, absolutely nonsense," he said.
A rather interesting and provocative way to make one’s point?
Methinks some disgruntled baggage loader in Maroochydore or Sydney is in for a lot of strife…
Edited to include the following:
It turns out to be a homemade firecracker belonging to a 13-year-old boy in checked baggage.
My humble apologies to the baggage handlers and union for my insinuations.
Last edited by FlexibleResponse; 25th Sep 2004 at 07:54.
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Explosives on airline a 'hoax'
September 23, 2004 - 11:50AM
An incendiary device found aboard a Virgin Blue plane at Sydney airport was a fake designed to look like a real bomb and could have been planted as a stunt, the federal government said today.
The discovery of the device, later identified by NSW police as containing thermite, a flammable compound used in some types of grenades, resulted in a major security breach when it was taken off the plane by a baggage handler and carried into the terminal.
Australian Federal Police (AFP) confirmed today an investigation was underway into the incident on a Virgin Blue 737-300 jet on Monday. The plane had originated from the Sunshine Coast airport at Maroochydore.
Virgin Blue's head of commercial operations David Huttner said the baggage handler who found the device had not followed proper procedure.
"The guy who informed the APS (Australian Protective Service) took the device to them," Mr Huttner said. "While he was trying to do the right thing he didn't follow procedures properly.
However, the airline had informed the APS within 15 minutes of finding the device. The airline believed an airport worker could have been responsible, and probably meant for the device to be found.
"We believe it was an airport worker with an agenda," Mr Huttner said. "It (the device) was not something that goes boom, it was something that burns which means somebody had to be there to light it."
Deputy Prime Minister and Transport Minister John Anderson today said it was not a terrorist act and security would have picked up a terrorist bomb.
"At this stage on my advice you are not looking at something that could have potentially blown a plane out of the air having got through security," he said on the John Laws radio program.
"... the judgment was formed that this was a hoax."
He later told ABC radio: "It's not a serious bomb; it's made to look like one." However, it appeared there had been a breakdown of security protocol, Mr Anderson said.
"The more I think about this, the more I have to say that I feel I can be reasonably confident ... our mechanisms would have picked up a serious bomb or a serious terrorist, they wouldn't have got through," Mr Anderson told ABC radio.
"That leads me to the conclusion that someone has done something extremely stupid and inappropriate for reasons not yet understood and we need to get to the bottom of it.
"This increasingly has the look about it of someone having placed it there, who was not a terrorist but was in a position of trust and should have known better...."
Unions have been critical of the government over airport security in the lead-up to next month's federal election.
But Transport Workers Union airport organiser Glenn Nightingale rejected any notion that one of its members was behind the breach.
"That's nonsense, absolutely nonsense," Mr Nightingale told Sydney radio 2UE.
Virgin Blue had not trained its workers in security procedures, he said. "They're not trained. They wouldn't know what a bomb, or a typical home-made bomb or a professional bomb looks like."
Labor transport spokesman Marn Ferguson said the key concerns related to how the device got aboard the plane in the major security breach.
"And worse still, if there was a prank, how were those responsible allowed to get away with this prank," he told ABC radio.
Sydney Airport Corporation Limited today said it had carried out its security responsibilities appropriately in relation to the incident.
And Maroochydore Shire Council, which owns and operates the Sunshine Coast airport, today said responsibility for security rested with the airlines and Airservices Australia - not with them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
September 23, 2004 - 11:50AM
An incendiary device found aboard a Virgin Blue plane at Sydney airport was a fake designed to look like a real bomb and could have been planted as a stunt, the federal government said today.
The discovery of the device, later identified by NSW police as containing thermite, a flammable compound used in some types of grenades, resulted in a major security breach when it was taken off the plane by a baggage handler and carried into the terminal.
Australian Federal Police (AFP) confirmed today an investigation was underway into the incident on a Virgin Blue 737-300 jet on Monday. The plane had originated from the Sunshine Coast airport at Maroochydore.
Virgin Blue's head of commercial operations David Huttner said the baggage handler who found the device had not followed proper procedure.
"The guy who informed the APS (Australian Protective Service) took the device to them," Mr Huttner said. "While he was trying to do the right thing he didn't follow procedures properly.
However, the airline had informed the APS within 15 minutes of finding the device. The airline believed an airport worker could have been responsible, and probably meant for the device to be found.
"We believe it was an airport worker with an agenda," Mr Huttner said. "It (the device) was not something that goes boom, it was something that burns which means somebody had to be there to light it."
Deputy Prime Minister and Transport Minister John Anderson today said it was not a terrorist act and security would have picked up a terrorist bomb.
"At this stage on my advice you are not looking at something that could have potentially blown a plane out of the air having got through security," he said on the John Laws radio program.
"... the judgment was formed that this was a hoax."
He later told ABC radio: "It's not a serious bomb; it's made to look like one." However, it appeared there had been a breakdown of security protocol, Mr Anderson said.
"The more I think about this, the more I have to say that I feel I can be reasonably confident ... our mechanisms would have picked up a serious bomb or a serious terrorist, they wouldn't have got through," Mr Anderson told ABC radio.
"That leads me to the conclusion that someone has done something extremely stupid and inappropriate for reasons not yet understood and we need to get to the bottom of it.
"This increasingly has the look about it of someone having placed it there, who was not a terrorist but was in a position of trust and should have known better...."
Unions have been critical of the government over airport security in the lead-up to next month's federal election.
But Transport Workers Union airport organiser Glenn Nightingale rejected any notion that one of its members was behind the breach.
"That's nonsense, absolutely nonsense," Mr Nightingale told Sydney radio 2UE.
Virgin Blue had not trained its workers in security procedures, he said. "They're not trained. They wouldn't know what a bomb, or a typical home-made bomb or a professional bomb looks like."
Labor transport spokesman Marn Ferguson said the key concerns related to how the device got aboard the plane in the major security breach.
"And worse still, if there was a prank, how were those responsible allowed to get away with this prank," he told ABC radio.
Sydney Airport Corporation Limited today said it had carried out its security responsibilities appropriately in relation to the incident.
And Maroochydore Shire Council, which owns and operates the Sunshine Coast airport, today said responsibility for security rested with the airlines and Airservices Australia - not with them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Fri 'The Australian"
Virgin's hoax bomb labelled a stunt
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
September 24, 2004
A HOAX bomb found in the hold of a Virgin Blue Boeing 737 and mistakenly taken into a Sydney Airport terminal on Monday, was placed on the airline after it landed.
Authorities investigating who planted the "bomb", a toilet roll with a fireworks sparkler attached, also believe the incident was a stunt.
Transport Minister John Anderson said yesterday he could not rule out a member of a union being responsible.
"At the very least you'd have to say this is not an action by a terrorist," he told Sydney radio station 2UE. "It was plainly designed to look like a bomb.
"So someone or some group of people have done a very inappropriate, a very stupid thing and, if we can get to the bottom of who it was, then they ought to suffer the full wrath of the law."
Unions have been critical of the federal Government's security policies and the training provided for airport workers.
But the accusations of a union campaign brought an angry retort from the Transport Workers Union, which described it as "ludicrous and an insult to workers at Sydney Airport".
"It's some wannabe terrorist, some weirdo," said TWU airport organiser Glenn Nightingale. "We'll work with the federal police and hopefully these people will be caught." Mr Nightingale said the incident highlighted inadequate emergency procedures at Virgin.
"The workers are not appropriately trained in any security or incident response of who to contact or what to do," he said.
Virgin Blue's head of commercial operations David Huttner said the airline believed the device was planted by an airport worker "with an agenda".
"It (the device) was not something that goes boom, it was something that burns, which means somebody had to be there to light it." A baggage handler unloading Virgin flight DJ-474 from Maroochydore on Monday uncovered a plastic bag containing the hoax bomb. The roll was originally believed to be filled with the incendiary material thermite but a federal police spokesman said yesterday there was no evidence "at this stage" to suggest the item contained explosives.
The handler breached protocol by taking the package into the terminal where it is believed to have been handled by at least three people before it was brought to the attention of the federal police. The aircraft was also allowed to leave and flew to Ballina, in rural NSW, and back before it was searched.
While NSW police say they were not informed of the incident until almost two hours later, Virgin said it told Australian Protective Service officers within 15 minutes of the object's discovery.
The federal police spokesman said an APS bomb appraisal officer assessed the item and requested the attendance of NSW police. "Response times were in accordance with operational protocols established between relevant agencies," he said.
==========================================
Fri "The Age"
Jet hoax exposes lapse in security
By Alexandra Smith, Brendan Nicholson
Angela O'Connor
September 24, 2004
Many contract airport workers at Australian airports have no air security identification cards, even though the Federal Government ordered major checks 18 months ago.
The lapse has been exposed by an apparent hoax in which explosive material was placed in the cargo hold of a Virgin airliner this week.
Transport Minister John Anderson said the Australian Federal Police were investigating the discovery of an incendiary device in the plane's hold at Sydney Airport on Monday morning.
The device consisted of a cardboard toilet roll tube packed with the explosive thermite and made of aluminium dust and iron oxide. Attached to it was a sparkler.
Investigators are trying to track down who put it there.
They also want to know why the baggage handler who found it took it into a terminal in breach of security, and why the aircraft was then allowed to take off without a thorough search.
A Transport Workers Union senior airline official, Glenn Nightingale, said the incident highlighted the inadequacies of security, staff training and incident handling procedures at Sydney Airport.
Mr Nightingale said the union had been concerned since the September 11 atrocity in the US about identification cards, particularly for contract airport staff who could work with a visitor's pass rather than an air security card.
The security cards allow airport workers unsupervised entry into secure areas of airports, while contractors without the cards who need access to secure areas are meant to be supervised by a card holder, the union says.
Mr Anderson's spokesman rejected the union claim last night, saying no casual workers had unsupervised access to sensitive areas such as tarmacs or aircraft holds.
Virgin Blue's head of commercial operations, David Huttner, said the airline believed an airport worker was responsible for this week's incident.
He said the device, in a plastic bag, was not passenger baggage. There was no other explanation for it being in the cargo hold.
The hoax has triggered a tightening of security procedures at airports across Australia.
A baggage handler found the device in an unmarked plastic bag and carried it into a passenger terminal.
The aircraft had arrived from Maroochydore, but it is not clear if the package was loaded there or in Sydney.
Mr Anderson said he was sure the device was part of a hoax and not a terrorist attack, but lessons would be learned and changes made.
"We seek to close off every loophole as it appears," he said.
He said the federal Transport Department was training baggage handlers further.
The episode appeared to be a foolish or an illegal act, but not an act of terrorism.
The baggage handler thought he knew best when he carried the device into the terminal to hand it to security staff.
"He should have just obeyed his superior," Mr Anderson said.
But he said the fact that the baggage handler found the device proved the system was working.
A distinction had to be drawn between terrorists and people trying to make a point or trying to big-note themselves, he said.
Investigators are confident the explosive material was placed aboard the Virgin jet by an airport worker with a security clearance.
All staff with access to security areas must have a proper identification card, which requires background checks by ASIO. The Government says 58,000 checks have been carried out so far without any worker emerging as a possible threat.
· The Maritime Union of Australia has written to the Prime Minister complaining about a "flag of convenience" ship carrying potentially explosive ammonium nitrate. The union's assistant national secretary, Mick Doleman, said the use of such vessels to carry dangerous cargo was a threat to national security.
The Singapore-registered Protesilaus Union was due to leave Newcastle today with 1800 tonnes of the fertiliser on board. Ammonium nitrate was the main ingredient of the Oklahoma City bomb, which killed 168 people in 1995.
===========================================
Virgin's hoax bomb labelled a stunt
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
September 24, 2004
A HOAX bomb found in the hold of a Virgin Blue Boeing 737 and mistakenly taken into a Sydney Airport terminal on Monday, was placed on the airline after it landed.
Authorities investigating who planted the "bomb", a toilet roll with a fireworks sparkler attached, also believe the incident was a stunt.
Transport Minister John Anderson said yesterday he could not rule out a member of a union being responsible.
"At the very least you'd have to say this is not an action by a terrorist," he told Sydney radio station 2UE. "It was plainly designed to look like a bomb.
"So someone or some group of people have done a very inappropriate, a very stupid thing and, if we can get to the bottom of who it was, then they ought to suffer the full wrath of the law."
Unions have been critical of the federal Government's security policies and the training provided for airport workers.
But the accusations of a union campaign brought an angry retort from the Transport Workers Union, which described it as "ludicrous and an insult to workers at Sydney Airport".
"It's some wannabe terrorist, some weirdo," said TWU airport organiser Glenn Nightingale. "We'll work with the federal police and hopefully these people will be caught." Mr Nightingale said the incident highlighted inadequate emergency procedures at Virgin.
"The workers are not appropriately trained in any security or incident response of who to contact or what to do," he said.
Virgin Blue's head of commercial operations David Huttner said the airline believed the device was planted by an airport worker "with an agenda".
"It (the device) was not something that goes boom, it was something that burns, which means somebody had to be there to light it." A baggage handler unloading Virgin flight DJ-474 from Maroochydore on Monday uncovered a plastic bag containing the hoax bomb. The roll was originally believed to be filled with the incendiary material thermite but a federal police spokesman said yesterday there was no evidence "at this stage" to suggest the item contained explosives.
The handler breached protocol by taking the package into the terminal where it is believed to have been handled by at least three people before it was brought to the attention of the federal police. The aircraft was also allowed to leave and flew to Ballina, in rural NSW, and back before it was searched.
While NSW police say they were not informed of the incident until almost two hours later, Virgin said it told Australian Protective Service officers within 15 minutes of the object's discovery.
The federal police spokesman said an APS bomb appraisal officer assessed the item and requested the attendance of NSW police. "Response times were in accordance with operational protocols established between relevant agencies," he said.
==========================================
Fri "The Age"
Jet hoax exposes lapse in security
By Alexandra Smith, Brendan Nicholson
Angela O'Connor
September 24, 2004
Many contract airport workers at Australian airports have no air security identification cards, even though the Federal Government ordered major checks 18 months ago.
The lapse has been exposed by an apparent hoax in which explosive material was placed in the cargo hold of a Virgin airliner this week.
Transport Minister John Anderson said the Australian Federal Police were investigating the discovery of an incendiary device in the plane's hold at Sydney Airport on Monday morning.
The device consisted of a cardboard toilet roll tube packed with the explosive thermite and made of aluminium dust and iron oxide. Attached to it was a sparkler.
Investigators are trying to track down who put it there.
They also want to know why the baggage handler who found it took it into a terminal in breach of security, and why the aircraft was then allowed to take off without a thorough search.
A Transport Workers Union senior airline official, Glenn Nightingale, said the incident highlighted the inadequacies of security, staff training and incident handling procedures at Sydney Airport.
Mr Nightingale said the union had been concerned since the September 11 atrocity in the US about identification cards, particularly for contract airport staff who could work with a visitor's pass rather than an air security card.
The security cards allow airport workers unsupervised entry into secure areas of airports, while contractors without the cards who need access to secure areas are meant to be supervised by a card holder, the union says.
Mr Anderson's spokesman rejected the union claim last night, saying no casual workers had unsupervised access to sensitive areas such as tarmacs or aircraft holds.
Virgin Blue's head of commercial operations, David Huttner, said the airline believed an airport worker was responsible for this week's incident.
He said the device, in a plastic bag, was not passenger baggage. There was no other explanation for it being in the cargo hold.
The hoax has triggered a tightening of security procedures at airports across Australia.
A baggage handler found the device in an unmarked plastic bag and carried it into a passenger terminal.
The aircraft had arrived from Maroochydore, but it is not clear if the package was loaded there or in Sydney.
Mr Anderson said he was sure the device was part of a hoax and not a terrorist attack, but lessons would be learned and changes made.
"We seek to close off every loophole as it appears," he said.
He said the federal Transport Department was training baggage handlers further.
The episode appeared to be a foolish or an illegal act, but not an act of terrorism.
The baggage handler thought he knew best when he carried the device into the terminal to hand it to security staff.
"He should have just obeyed his superior," Mr Anderson said.
But he said the fact that the baggage handler found the device proved the system was working.
A distinction had to be drawn between terrorists and people trying to make a point or trying to big-note themselves, he said.
Investigators are confident the explosive material was placed aboard the Virgin jet by an airport worker with a security clearance.
All staff with access to security areas must have a proper identification card, which requires background checks by ASIO. The Government says 58,000 checks have been carried out so far without any worker emerging as a possible threat.
· The Maritime Union of Australia has written to the Prime Minister complaining about a "flag of convenience" ship carrying potentially explosive ammonium nitrate. The union's assistant national secretary, Mick Doleman, said the use of such vessels to carry dangerous cargo was a threat to national security.
The Singapore-registered Protesilaus Union was due to leave Newcastle today with 1800 tonnes of the fertiliser on board. Ammonium nitrate was the main ingredient of the Oklahoma City bomb, which killed 168 people in 1995.
===========================================
Last edited by Wirraway; 23rd Sep 2004 at 20:14.
Evertonian
HGW. Sorry, my point was they claim it took 15 mins after it was found, to alert APS, not 15 mins to empty the hold , find it & alert.
So, our lesson is that we have to be really alert on slow news days!
So, our lesson is that we have to be really alert on slow news days!
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Icarus 2001.
Yes you are partially correct in my assessment of the situation, but credit where credit is due.
If VB didnt stuff up in such a huge way I wouldnt be on here criticising their actions or lack thereof.
This was a paramount stuff up of epic proportions.
It also showed a total lack of leadership from VB management in neglecting to provide the adequate training to their staff/contractors.
It is incumbent upon VB to provide that training and to provide a duty of care to not only staff but also passengers that were clearly put at risk needlessly.
To quote you Icarus,
The fact is that the object was made to look like what it was - an explosive device.
This was obviously a suspicious object.
To top it all off Icarus 2001 it didnt have any consignment note attached or accompanying paperwork which would make even a layman wondering what an obviously exposed sparkler is doing attached at one end of a suspicious article??????
Throw me a frigging bone Icarus!!!
Having a background in chemistry I can tell you that the substance inside, thermite, would have burned through the fuselage with the greatest of ease looking at the melting point of aluminium.
If for whatever reason it was to ignite, the results would have been disastrous to say the least, but officials wont come straight out and say that.
It also would have caused a fire incinerating whatever else was in the hold if ignited.
The aircraft structure would have melted as surely as did the wax on the wings of both Icarus and Deadalus in greek mythology.
To quote one paper it turns out that some of VB's contract staff are working airside without proper ASIC cards which are now a mandatory requirement.
VB could be find alot of money for multiple breaches if true.
Yes, VB were negligent in terms of lack of training of staff.
Even you cannot deny this Icarus.
The sad fact is that nobody in VB will admit fault or take blame.
To quote todays Telegraph in Sydney,
No airline is perfect and they all make mistakes, but when its done on such a grand scale with such a litany of mistakes exposed and stupidity exercised then even blind freddy must sit up and start asking themselves a few questions.
Interesting to see how Brett Godfrey covers his arse on the one.
Yes you are partially correct in my assessment of the situation, but credit where credit is due.
If VB didnt stuff up in such a huge way I wouldnt be on here criticising their actions or lack thereof.
This was a paramount stuff up of epic proportions.
It also showed a total lack of leadership from VB management in neglecting to provide the adequate training to their staff/contractors.
It is incumbent upon VB to provide that training and to provide a duty of care to not only staff but also passengers that were clearly put at risk needlessly.
To quote you Icarus,
As for baggage handlers carrying a bag to the terminal for Xray. Think about the logic here, they carry hundreds of bags to the terminal every day. Loose bags, boxes and packages often show up on the carousel. What would cause them to think this knotted bag was any different?
This was obviously a suspicious object.
To top it all off Icarus 2001 it didnt have any consignment note attached or accompanying paperwork which would make even a layman wondering what an obviously exposed sparkler is doing attached at one end of a suspicious article??????
Throw me a frigging bone Icarus!!!
Having a background in chemistry I can tell you that the substance inside, thermite, would have burned through the fuselage with the greatest of ease looking at the melting point of aluminium.
If for whatever reason it was to ignite, the results would have been disastrous to say the least, but officials wont come straight out and say that.
It also would have caused a fire incinerating whatever else was in the hold if ignited.
The aircraft structure would have melted as surely as did the wax on the wings of both Icarus and Deadalus in greek mythology.
To quote one paper it turns out that some of VB's contract staff are working airside without proper ASIC cards which are now a mandatory requirement.
VB could be find alot of money for multiple breaches if true.
Yes, VB were negligent in terms of lack of training of staff.
Even you cannot deny this Icarus.
The sad fact is that nobody in VB will admit fault or take blame.
To quote todays Telegraph in Sydney,
The issue was the subject of heated discussions across the aviation and law enforcement industry yesterday. The Daily Telegraph has learned:
WORKCOVER will today serve Virgin Blue airlines with formal written notice to immediately train staff on handling potential bombs threats, or face prosecution;
WORKCOVER will today serve Virgin Blue airlines with formal written notice to immediately train staff on handling potential bombs threats, or face prosecution;
Interesting to see how Brett Godfrey covers his arse on the one.
Last edited by TIMMEEEE; 26th Sep 2004 at 00:13.
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'Bomb' a homemade firecracker
September 24, 2004
A SUSPICIOUS device found in the baggage compartment of a Virgin Blue flight turned out to be a homemade firecracker a teenager had put in his luggage, Australian Federal Police said today.
An AFP spokeswoman said a teenage boy was interviewed today and identified the firecracker after investigating officers showed it to him.
She said after interviewing the teenager the AFP was satisfied there had been no threat and there was no malicious intent.
No charges would be laid, she said.
"The AFP investigation into the discovery of suspect item ... has been finalised," the spokeswoman said.
"AFP officers interviewed a young teenager who identified the suspect item as a homemade firecracker that he was carrying in his luggage on the flight from Maroochydore to Sydney.
"Police are satisfied that this firecracker posed no threat to the aircraft and that there were no malicious intent.
"The AFP will not be taking any action ... he's not going to be charged."
Baggage handlers discovered the device in a knotted plastic bag along with matches in the cargo hold of a Virgin Blue jet on Monday, sparking a major security scare.
AAP
this is absolutley disgusting that this kid wont be charged for carrying a DG on an aircraft which is a threat to the aircraft.. and also that the media dont seem to care or state that DGs shouldnt be carried on planes! Even the Box matches are forbidden!
It angers me because idiots will read this now and believe its ok to pack fireworks in their luggage!
September 24, 2004
A SUSPICIOUS device found in the baggage compartment of a Virgin Blue flight turned out to be a homemade firecracker a teenager had put in his luggage, Australian Federal Police said today.
An AFP spokeswoman said a teenage boy was interviewed today and identified the firecracker after investigating officers showed it to him.
She said after interviewing the teenager the AFP was satisfied there had been no threat and there was no malicious intent.
No charges would be laid, she said.
"The AFP investigation into the discovery of suspect item ... has been finalised," the spokeswoman said.
"AFP officers interviewed a young teenager who identified the suspect item as a homemade firecracker that he was carrying in his luggage on the flight from Maroochydore to Sydney.
"Police are satisfied that this firecracker posed no threat to the aircraft and that there were no malicious intent.
"The AFP will not be taking any action ... he's not going to be charged."
Baggage handlers discovered the device in a knotted plastic bag along with matches in the cargo hold of a Virgin Blue jet on Monday, sparking a major security scare.
AAP
this is absolutley disgusting that this kid wont be charged for carrying a DG on an aircraft which is a threat to the aircraft.. and also that the media dont seem to care or state that DGs shouldnt be carried on planes! Even the Box matches are forbidden! It angers me because idiots will read this now and believe its ok to pack fireworks in their luggage!
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Hey , SGITG if you hadn't done your 5-minute Intro to Dangerous Goodies course you'd be just as ignorant.
I think you should calm down...
I think you should calm down...
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If you want to see ignorant, have a look at TIMMEEEEs post.
Oh, please. One employee made an ill-judged but properly-intentioned move. No harm was done. Nobody was hurt. Nobody COULD have been hurt. What a complete drama queen!
You think anybody half-serious about planting a working bomb is going to leave it in the open? No chance. It will be hidden in baggage, or made to look innocent.
Not at all like the complete lack of judgement shown when that 747 went sailing off the end at BKK... oh but of course that is QF and they NEVER stuff up, do they...
Indeed. If by some miracle, the bomb managed to light itself, having grown a pair of arms and an understanding of how matches worked, not to mention an understanding of the passage of time, it would have burned fiercely for a few seconds and then would have fallen through the hole in the skin it had just created. Assuming the aircraft involved had hold fire suppression, the probable scenario is a decompression. Of course, the decompression would have helped put any residual fire out.
Complete bollocks (see above). Nice contradiction on your part, though.
Guess they learned that from Qantas, the world masters of ducking and diving.
BTW I have no particular opinions on any Aussie airline. Don't live there.
I mean, even for someone with a such maelevolent hatred of VB, you seem to have little or no understanding of security. I have spent my entire airline career working in countries where the threat of terrorism has been a part of daily life for the last twenty years or so, and they have learned to deal with it effectively. I have twice found myself commanding aircraft where ATC have informed us of a bomb threat against our aircraft, with all the subsequent drama (and paperwork) that entails.
Have any aircraft been lost in these countries to terrorist action? Nope. were the loaders in these countries trained in bomb recognition and subsequent procedures? No.
Now go and sit quietly and see if you can figure out the implications of all that...
If VB didnt stuff up in such a huge way... ...This was a paramount stuff up of epic proportions.
You think anybody half-serious about planting a working bomb is going to leave it in the open? No chance. It will be hidden in baggage, or made to look innocent.
It also showed a total lack of leadership from VB management in neglecting to provide the adequate training to their staff/contractors. It is incumbent upon VB to provide that training and to provide a duty of care to not only staff but also passengers that were clearly put at risk needlessly.
Having a background in chemistry I can tell you that the substance inside, thermite, would have burned through the fuselage with the greatest of ease looking at the melting point of aluminium.
The aircraft structure would have melted as surely as did the wax on the wings of both Icarus and Deadalus in greek mythology.
The sad fact is that nobody in VB will admit fault or take blame.
BTW I have no particular opinions on any Aussie airline. Don't live there.
I mean, even for someone with a such maelevolent hatred of VB, you seem to have little or no understanding of security. I have spent my entire airline career working in countries where the threat of terrorism has been a part of daily life for the last twenty years or so, and they have learned to deal with it effectively. I have twice found myself commanding aircraft where ATC have informed us of a bomb threat against our aircraft, with all the subsequent drama (and paperwork) that entails.
Have any aircraft been lost in these countries to terrorist action? Nope. were the loaders in these countries trained in bomb recognition and subsequent procedures? No.
Now go and sit quietly and see if you can figure out the implications of all that...
Join Date: May 2004
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MOR ,how wrong can one be.That object was extremely dangerous and if it had caught on fire,would have caused the a/c to crash.The fact that it was highly flammable would have increased the intensity of the fire in the hold,resulting in ONE LARGE FIRE.
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Brown
I gather you really believe the extinguishing system fitted would save your bacon.Your probably the same guy who flies around all day with reportable defects but doesnt bother to enter them till the end of flying
I gather you really believe the extinguishing system fitted would save your bacon.Your probably the same guy who flies around all day with reportable defects but doesnt bother to enter them till the end of flying
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Something seriously distorted here:
."AFP officers interviewed a young teenager who identified the suspect item as a homemade firecracker that he was carrying in his luggage on the flight from Maroochydore to Sydney"
"thermite, a flammable compound used in some types of grenades"
AFAIK, Thermite, mixture of Fe***and Al***, difficult to ignite, used for incendiary devices (bombs yes, grenades? maybe WP) and welding. While it burns quite well when ignited and can be described as being like a volcano I have some problem with the firecracker idea.
Maybe the assorted experts (including the "young teenager") didn't have a clue. Now when I was a young teenager.....
."AFP officers interviewed a young teenager who identified the suspect item as a homemade firecracker that he was carrying in his luggage on the flight from Maroochydore to Sydney"
"thermite, a flammable compound used in some types of grenades"
AFAIK, Thermite, mixture of Fe***and Al***, difficult to ignite, used for incendiary devices (bombs yes, grenades? maybe WP) and welding. While it burns quite well when ignited and can be described as being like a volcano I have some problem with the firecracker idea.
Maybe the assorted experts (including the "young teenager") didn't have a clue. Now when I was a young teenager.....