Song and dance over 'ageist' Virgin
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Sinala has raised a very valid issue; that the culture of traditional airline recruitment has changed. However, I would like to point out that this cultural change is (in my experience)limited to Virgin Blue and its' related or similar companies.
Historically, airline recruitment focused on employing individuals who could enhance the saftey culture and the public confidence of the airline and the industry. This was brought about by the publics' lack of total confidence in the airline industry as a safe and comfortable means of transport.
The lessons of the past were most painfully learned from the various smoking holes in the ground that resulted from various human failings. The industry as a whole recognised that airline staff needed to be of a certain caliber, if not simply on saftey grounds then so as to enhance the community perception of the industry.
This is the background to how the safety culture of the airlines has evolved. It also explains the traditional public image of airline staff, at all levels of the business, as being switched on people with positive qualities. Even to be a baggage handler the minimum requirements were to possess at least an average level of intellegence and common sense.
This approach that has been taken by the airlines has been quite successful. The fare paying public expects that the crew is competent and well trained, the aircraft servicable and that the flight will depart and arrive safely and pretty much on time. The seriousness of the staff towards the nature of the business was well understod by the customers, who expected nothing short of perfection from those charged with their safety and comfort.
It was in this existing industry framework that Virgin Blue came into being. This company broke the mould of encumbant airlines when it came to its image. It projected the image of a 'fun' company rather than the conservative aura that had been a characteristic of traditional carriers. Yet it should be noted that without the approach taken by the longstanding carriers and the postive public perception of the industry that these companies had fought for, marketing a company with a youthful and fun-loving attitude would be clearly impossible. It is here where we see that a cultural change has been effected.
However, simply riding on a wave where a company such as Virgin Blue can be successful does not make it a worthy organisation. There is no doubt that the level-headedness typical of industry staff in other airlines is lacking at Virgin. In fact, it is exactly this zany attaitude that the company activly seeks when employing staff, particularly cabin crew!
On a fairly recent flight with Virgin Blue I witnessed the Purser(or whatever they are called at VB) welcoming people on the flight to Cairns,which was NOT the destination ("HA, HA fooled YA!! Well, who'd LIKE to go to Cairns? ..How about Vanuatu?.. HA, HA..)(does this constitute conspiracy to commit air piracy?). He then asked if it anyones birthday("Yeah? Hey, mine too. BIG HUGS!!" He then races down the cabin to the birthday pax and cuddles some bloke). He then invited the lucky pasenger to participate in the safety demo, which derided the whole safety point of the excercise. He then took time out to bag Jetstar on the PA. At top of decent he made some reference to the fact that "..the pilots, once again, have managed to find the destination.." ( They do dress like high-tech. janitors, I suppose, so why not imply to all the folks that they may be incompetent?)As part of the safety briefing, he had the demerity to say that he was an "airsafety professional" I mean, with this attitude, who is this CLOWN TRYING TO KID?? This sort of garbage not only diminishes the public perception of the industry but, paradoxically almost, could not exist or survive without that bult up by the traditional industry approach! Is Virgin serious when that employ these sort of people into what is a high risk industry?
Combine this attitude with the personal 'qualities' of the 3 insipid bimbos that I refered to in an earlier post(one didn't even know what day it was, anothers lips moved when she was reading). This sort of company persona and recruitment practice is totally against the existing industry image that has brought aviation to where it is today. And I'll tell you right now, VB just don't pay enough to entice me to work there. This company is devaluing the not only image of the industry, but also the public perception of those who work in it.
Historically, airline recruitment focused on employing individuals who could enhance the saftey culture and the public confidence of the airline and the industry. This was brought about by the publics' lack of total confidence in the airline industry as a safe and comfortable means of transport.
The lessons of the past were most painfully learned from the various smoking holes in the ground that resulted from various human failings. The industry as a whole recognised that airline staff needed to be of a certain caliber, if not simply on saftey grounds then so as to enhance the community perception of the industry.
This is the background to how the safety culture of the airlines has evolved. It also explains the traditional public image of airline staff, at all levels of the business, as being switched on people with positive qualities. Even to be a baggage handler the minimum requirements were to possess at least an average level of intellegence and common sense.
This approach that has been taken by the airlines has been quite successful. The fare paying public expects that the crew is competent and well trained, the aircraft servicable and that the flight will depart and arrive safely and pretty much on time. The seriousness of the staff towards the nature of the business was well understod by the customers, who expected nothing short of perfection from those charged with their safety and comfort.
It was in this existing industry framework that Virgin Blue came into being. This company broke the mould of encumbant airlines when it came to its image. It projected the image of a 'fun' company rather than the conservative aura that had been a characteristic of traditional carriers. Yet it should be noted that without the approach taken by the longstanding carriers and the postive public perception of the industry that these companies had fought for, marketing a company with a youthful and fun-loving attitude would be clearly impossible. It is here where we see that a cultural change has been effected.
However, simply riding on a wave where a company such as Virgin Blue can be successful does not make it a worthy organisation. There is no doubt that the level-headedness typical of industry staff in other airlines is lacking at Virgin. In fact, it is exactly this zany attaitude that the company activly seeks when employing staff, particularly cabin crew!
On a fairly recent flight with Virgin Blue I witnessed the Purser(or whatever they are called at VB) welcoming people on the flight to Cairns,which was NOT the destination ("HA, HA fooled YA!! Well, who'd LIKE to go to Cairns? ..How about Vanuatu?.. HA, HA..)(does this constitute conspiracy to commit air piracy?). He then asked if it anyones birthday("Yeah? Hey, mine too. BIG HUGS!!" He then races down the cabin to the birthday pax and cuddles some bloke). He then invited the lucky pasenger to participate in the safety demo, which derided the whole safety point of the excercise. He then took time out to bag Jetstar on the PA. At top of decent he made some reference to the fact that "..the pilots, once again, have managed to find the destination.." ( They do dress like high-tech. janitors, I suppose, so why not imply to all the folks that they may be incompetent?)As part of the safety briefing, he had the demerity to say that he was an "airsafety professional" I mean, with this attitude, who is this CLOWN TRYING TO KID?? This sort of garbage not only diminishes the public perception of the industry but, paradoxically almost, could not exist or survive without that bult up by the traditional industry approach! Is Virgin serious when that employ these sort of people into what is a high risk industry?
Combine this attitude with the personal 'qualities' of the 3 insipid bimbos that I refered to in an earlier post(one didn't even know what day it was, anothers lips moved when she was reading). This sort of company persona and recruitment practice is totally against the existing industry image that has brought aviation to where it is today. And I'll tell you right now, VB just don't pay enough to entice me to work there. This company is devaluing the not only image of the industry, but also the public perception of those who work in it.
Last edited by Ralph the Bong; 21st Aug 2004 at 09:13.
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I second that. Well said and I respect your opinion even though I don't agree totally.
This is what this forum should be like instead of the incessant, racist ramblings of people like Schhweinund.
This is what this forum should be like instead of the incessant, racist ramblings of people like Schhweinund.
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Well Ralph,
At least the purser seems to have gotten your attention!
The standard safety briefings on most carriers have more in common with the disclaimers in small print on the bottom of a biscuit packet.
Snooze
(for the record, never hired / not hired by any of the companies discussed)
At least the purser seems to have gotten your attention!
The standard safety briefings on most carriers have more in common with the disclaimers in small print on the bottom of a biscuit packet.
Snooze
(for the record, never hired / not hired by any of the companies discussed)
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HGW, if VB deserve bagging then they'll get it. I "bag" when I feel it's appropriate. You disagree with me, and so therefore you bag me right back again. Ralph has pretty much said what I did, but in a lot more words.
And BTW, HGW, you weren't knocked back because of your age. It was your spelling and grammar that let you down!
And BTW, HGW, you weren't knocked back because of your age. It was your spelling and grammar that let you down!
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Not sure what Ralp TB is trying to say as I got bored after para3.
Something about Virgin's "cherry-picking" employment policies being just fine with anyone of normal countenance, I think.
They should hang a sign on the window that says:
___________________________
Hosties Wanted:
Minimum Requirements:
Cherry.
___________________________
.
.
Something about Virgin's "cherry-picking" employment policies being just fine with anyone of normal countenance, I think.
They should hang a sign on the window that says:
___________________________
Hosties Wanted:
Minimum Requirements:
Cherry.
___________________________
.
.
Last edited by air-hag; 21st Aug 2004 at 09:46.
Just Binos
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Well, that sounds like an interesting piece of gossip! Care to follow it up? 
I don't often agree with Amos, who doesn't often agree with Ralph, with whom I have crossed swords in the past, but we appear to be reluctantly occupying a piece of the same side of the argument. Thank God air-hag is on the other side making his usual witless posts.
I agree entirely with Ralph on the whole false bonhomie crap that Virgin FA's go on with, it's embarrassing and demeaning to all over the age of 25 who don't spend their waking hours texting.
I lay my sexist credentials on the line by admitting, before somebody else dobs me in, that I waxed apoplectic in these pages about a particular Virgin FA's fantastic posterior, positioned as it was at my eye level while she said whatever she said in the briefing. But I could also point to many posts where I abhor the world's obsession with appearance, and I would prefer class to arse most times. As Gaunty said, that tends to come with maturity, and Ms Stewart as photographed does more for me than most young bimbos.
Let's see now;
1. For Virgin to deny their employment decisions are based largely on physical appearance is laughable.
2. This is now against the law. Whether you believe that is a good thing is simply a personal preference based on ideology. Should wheelchair-bound applicants for FA positions be treated without discrimination?
3. Producing one 53 year old FA as proof of their supposed even-handedness, together with suggesting they reject more under 35's than over 35's is an abuse of statistics that a schoolchild could destroy. Only a PR spin doctor could quote that with a straight face. (Or a lawyer.)
4.
On balance I agree with Kaptin M. If you're paying the bills it's hard to justify how anybody can tell you whom you can or can't employ. But that's an another argument altogether. Isn't it? 
It certainly doesn't make Kapt M a nazi.
5. Virgin are there to make money. If Branson's idea of making more money involves young gorgeous airheads do we have a right to stop him? If you don't like it, don't fly with them.
6. What bloody side am I on here? I have no idea! Let the market decide. As long as I never have to agree with air-hag, I'll sleep OK.
I don't often agree with Amos, who doesn't often agree with Ralph, with whom I have crossed swords in the past, but we appear to be reluctantly occupying a piece of the same side of the argument. Thank God air-hag is on the other side making his usual witless posts.
I agree entirely with Ralph on the whole false bonhomie crap that Virgin FA's go on with, it's embarrassing and demeaning to all over the age of 25 who don't spend their waking hours texting.
I lay my sexist credentials on the line by admitting, before somebody else dobs me in, that I waxed apoplectic in these pages about a particular Virgin FA's fantastic posterior, positioned as it was at my eye level while she said whatever she said in the briefing. But I could also point to many posts where I abhor the world's obsession with appearance, and I would prefer class to arse most times. As Gaunty said, that tends to come with maturity, and Ms Stewart as photographed does more for me than most young bimbos.
Let's see now;
1. For Virgin to deny their employment decisions are based largely on physical appearance is laughable.
2. This is now against the law. Whether you believe that is a good thing is simply a personal preference based on ideology. Should wheelchair-bound applicants for FA positions be treated without discrimination?
3. Producing one 53 year old FA as proof of their supposed even-handedness, together with suggesting they reject more under 35's than over 35's is an abuse of statistics that a schoolchild could destroy. Only a PR spin doctor could quote that with a straight face. (Or a lawyer.)
4.
It`s a sad day when an employer can`t choose whom he wants working for him.
It certainly doesn't make Kapt M a nazi.5. Virgin are there to make money. If Branson's idea of making more money involves young gorgeous airheads do we have a right to stop him? If you don't like it, don't fly with them.
6. What bloody side am I on here? I have no idea! Let the market decide. As long as I never have to agree with air-hag, I'll sleep OK.
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_____a very confused young banana-bender
you see, Binoss, you say I'm on "the other" side but by the end of your aimless mumblings, your other personality has taken over and you are on the same side.
Let the market decide what side you're on??? Do you even have an opinion?
Weird.
So you're "embarrassed" and "demeaned"? You sound like a VB frequent-flyer. So tell us, how many times have you even flown with VB? And why do you continue to do so? If you're so offended why not fly with Pornstar?
Anyway after your recent self-confessed descent into bitternity and internalised chaos, how can we ever pay heed to any of your "opinions" again?
Why so angry and serious, Binoss?
Life's too short.
PS HGW how did you manage to drag "Racism" into the argument????
Let the market decide what side you're on??? Do you even have an opinion?
Weird.
So you're "embarrassed" and "demeaned"? You sound like a VB frequent-flyer. So tell us, how many times have you even flown with VB? And why do you continue to do so? If you're so offended why not fly with Pornstar?
Anyway after your recent self-confessed descent into bitternity and internalised chaos, how can we ever pay heed to any of your "opinions" again?
Why so angry and serious, Binoss?
Life's too short.PS HGW how did you manage to drag "Racism" into the argument????
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Alles ist klar zu mir jetzt..
Ich denke, daß der Hund Scheiße sich hat. Armes kleines Hundchen.
You know when someone is out of intelligible vitriol and rhetoric when they resort to picking on someones spelling and grammar.
You know when someone is out of intelligible vitriol and rhetoric when they resort to picking on someones spelling and grammar.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
But the women, who were aged between 36 and 56 when they applied for positions as cabin crew, now say the airline was deliberately seeking "youthful-looking" applicants.
How many of them even got as far as the interview stage with either of those 2 other airlines? And if they did, were any of them accepted?
If not, then will, they be taking the same action against QF and J*??
(For the record, I'd have to honestly say that Ms Stewart doesn't appear to have aged one single day from my memories of her pre-'89
)Ralph your little jibes at VB, whenever you get the opportunity, don't go unnoticed - even if you do try to pad them with other stuff.
There also seems to be an underlying trace of misogynism in many of the references you make to females, and highlighted in your Jet Blast topic Eastern flowers, Western slags!!
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Let's face it, this is just a media stunt. Group of unemployed ex-FA's out to try to bring attention onto themselves, and have a dig at Dj - a LOT of former AN employees still hold DJ responsible for the demise of AN.
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Hiya Kaptin M
best regards to you and yours.
Romeo Tango Alpha
I find that absolutely 
amaaaaazing. I am not disputing that they do, just commenting on the unbelievable arrogance of that attitude.
It is not, therefore, surprising that they did themselves in.
They once were "right up there", but it seems they started to really believe their own bulls hit.
It's a real bugger when you find out that you have some serious competition, but if you accept that as a fact of life you get to have some real fun, the total market actually grows and everybody wins.
best regards to you and yours.
Romeo Tango Alpha
a LOT of former AN employees still hold DJ responsible for the demise of AN.
amaaaaazing. I am not disputing that they do, just commenting on the unbelievable arrogance of that attitude. It is not, therefore, surprising that they did themselves in.
They once were "right up there", but it seems they started to really believe their own bulls hit.
It's a real bugger when you find out that you have some serious competition, but if you accept that as a fact of life you get to have some real fun, the total market actually grows and everybody wins.
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Maybe Ralph has dealt with one too many bunny-boiling, psycho-chicken, nut-case, stark-raving-loony hosties in the sack on layovers.
Hey I don't find it surprising at all. There's a lot of them out there, I can tell you that for nothing.
Still... "slag" is rather a harsh description. I prefer the term "slapper". The poms came up with quite a good one, there, don't you think?
"Slapper" would go a long way toward describing the vapid bimbos he met and with whom he had the in-depth discussions mentioned earlier. Or maybe "Strumpet", which I believe is an older "slapper".
Hey I don't find it surprising at all. There's a lot of them out there, I can tell you that for nothing.
Still... "slag" is rather a harsh description. I prefer the term "slapper". The poms came up with quite a good one, there, don't you think?
"Slapper" would go a long way toward describing the vapid bimbos he met and with whom he had the in-depth discussions mentioned earlier. Or maybe "Strumpet", which I believe is an older "slapper".
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Schweinhund, Go back to Law school. You are the very best at grammar and spelling. You are the King, MATE!
But unfortunately you have no idea of the case, you are relying on the speculation of the media and the glossy photo's.
Fact is, MATE, you are a sore and sorry little boy without a life.
One has to wonder whether or not one of the fine ladies in the middle of all this is your wife.
Bloody hell trying to spell and get the grammar right for you hundy is worse than me 6 monthly sim check.
But unfortunately you have no idea of the case, you are relying on the speculation of the media and the glossy photo's.
Fact is, MATE, you are a sore and sorry little boy without a life.
One has to wonder whether or not one of the fine ladies in the middle of all this is your wife.
Bloody hell trying to spell and get the grammar right for you hundy is worse than me 6 monthly sim check.
Just Binos
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air-hag So angry and serious? Moi?? I thought my post was fairly light-hearted, and as for having an opinion, I think I made it perfectly clear that I can see both sides of this. Do I have to have a black and white opinion to justify posting? This is hardly a world peace issue after all. If my mumblings were too confusing for you, read points 1 and 2 therein again. They sum up the whole argument.
Yes, I find the DJ cabin crew schtick embarrassing, in much the same way as I find breakfast radio irritating; all that false cheeriness doesn't suit those of us who have descended into "bitternity".
It's hardly a reason for changing airlines though. I make my choices based on the general principle that Australia's safety regulation has enough checks and balances to ensure that nobody I fly with is going to fall out of the sky, so I fly with whoever is cheapest. Easy.
My flights are usually no longer than 75 minutes. I don't need to eat or drink in that time. If the seats are a bit squeezy and I have to put up with juvenile fun fun fun patter, so be it. Pornstar? No problems. Had occasion to fly to Brisbane three times in two weeks recently and used them each time.
As for valuing my opinions, as long as you find them uninteresting, I'll know I'm on the right general track.
Yes, I find the DJ cabin crew schtick embarrassing, in much the same way as I find breakfast radio irritating; all that false cheeriness doesn't suit those of us who have descended into "bitternity".
It's hardly a reason for changing airlines though. I make my choices based on the general principle that Australia's safety regulation has enough checks and balances to ensure that nobody I fly with is going to fall out of the sky, so I fly with whoever is cheapest. Easy.
My flights are usually no longer than 75 minutes. I don't need to eat or drink in that time. If the seats are a bit squeezy and I have to put up with juvenile fun fun fun patter, so be it. Pornstar? No problems. Had occasion to fly to Brisbane three times in two weeks recently and used them each time.
As for valuing my opinions, as long as you find them uninteresting, I'll know I'm on the right general track.
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Don't believe that VB can be seen to be the reason for An demise.
Can't believe that VB can be compared to An or QF more like Pioneer or Greyhound with "scrubbers" as flight attendants. l
It appears as though there are sufficient passengers who will fly with them. So be it.
If it is a success for the new shareholders, good luck to the mums and dads with shares.. Branson has already done well for himself and doesn't need congratulating. I do admire him.
I would not have bought in at the float because it was grossly overvalued. I bought QF.
The future holds little expansion, more competition in the market and all the large capital costs ahead for VB.
To me that's increasing costs and stagnating profits. Quite a cocktail
I doubt that Sir Rich, or the upper management will foot the bill for these expenses.
I remember when they were secondhand plane salesmen with less than the best reputation. They also did not start National Jet. A company called National Airlines ran an old G1 freighter out of their offices. As I said , secondhand plane salesmen.
I had decided that providing the service was acceptable, I would fly based on price.
I have flown with VB a few times and I am not happy. I personally also doubt the ability of VB F/As, that I have seen, to assist passengers in an emergency. After all , that's the prime role, not wearing a G string and bulging out of their clothing.
I have found better prices on QF many times, I get service ( even if the standard has dropped) and I get the ground support that VB don't care about and couldn't supply in any case.
I still have a "credit" with VB that I can't get to use for some reason. So I suppose that is lost.
I trust those "fat old ladies" and "old horses hoofs" on QF more than I trust some young "scrubber" who hasn't got the discipline to even polish her shoesfor what appears to have been weeks or never, but remembers to put her G string back on to go to work. I suppose the G string would be handy for a second job as a "table top dancer", seeing that the pay at VB is so low. Maybe VB could recruit some of those but then the passengers would want drinks, and the tarts would have to "remember" the drink orders as well as dance, or sing ,or........
Better I let the bus crowds get their rocks off at VB. I will save money(if I can), more importantly get home safely and look there for my feminine companionship.
To the Krap.
look forward to hearing how you get on at J*.( Haahaaahhaaa )
Remember, they have psychological testing.... UUMMMMM, could be a stumbling block... me thinks..........What do you say Kap??
any interview, yet?.......any takers?.....any?
Bye the bye, have you had an interview with VB yet ?
NO...... I know, you were offered an Job and accepted but you decided to change your mind on the drive home,after you realised the pain and suffering that you would cause to your family, friends as well as the general public by returning to Australia
Can't believe that VB can be compared to An or QF more like Pioneer or Greyhound with "scrubbers" as flight attendants. l
It appears as though there are sufficient passengers who will fly with them. So be it.
If it is a success for the new shareholders, good luck to the mums and dads with shares.. Branson has already done well for himself and doesn't need congratulating. I do admire him.
I would not have bought in at the float because it was grossly overvalued. I bought QF.
The future holds little expansion, more competition in the market and all the large capital costs ahead for VB.
To me that's increasing costs and stagnating profits. Quite a cocktail
I doubt that Sir Rich, or the upper management will foot the bill for these expenses.
I remember when they were secondhand plane salesmen with less than the best reputation. They also did not start National Jet. A company called National Airlines ran an old G1 freighter out of their offices. As I said , secondhand plane salesmen.
I had decided that providing the service was acceptable, I would fly based on price.
I have flown with VB a few times and I am not happy. I personally also doubt the ability of VB F/As, that I have seen, to assist passengers in an emergency. After all , that's the prime role, not wearing a G string and bulging out of their clothing.
I have found better prices on QF many times, I get service ( even if the standard has dropped) and I get the ground support that VB don't care about and couldn't supply in any case.
I still have a "credit" with VB that I can't get to use for some reason. So I suppose that is lost.
I trust those "fat old ladies" and "old horses hoofs" on QF more than I trust some young "scrubber" who hasn't got the discipline to even polish her shoesfor what appears to have been weeks or never, but remembers to put her G string back on to go to work. I suppose the G string would be handy for a second job as a "table top dancer", seeing that the pay at VB is so low. Maybe VB could recruit some of those but then the passengers would want drinks, and the tarts would have to "remember" the drink orders as well as dance, or sing ,or........
Better I let the bus crowds get their rocks off at VB. I will save money(if I can), more importantly get home safely and look there for my feminine companionship.
To the Krap.
look forward to hearing how you get on at J*.( Haahaaahhaaa )
Remember, they have psychological testing.... UUMMMMM, could be a stumbling block... me thinks..........What do you say Kap??
any interview, yet?.......any takers?.....any?
Bye the bye, have you had an interview with VB yet ?
NO...... I know, you were offered an Job and accepted but you decided to change your mind on the drive home,after you realised the pain and suffering that you would cause to your family, friends as well as the general public by returning to Australia