Virgin Syd-Canberra-Syd Services Under Threat
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DOME
I'm not a public servant. However, I am a taxpayer. As such, and with respect, I take some exception to the glib way in which public servants are dismissive of any criticism of their taxpayer funded profligacy.
In a recent report, the ACT Auditor General expressed concern about improper travel procedures and the lack of accountability in the use of frequent flier points by ACT public servants.
The Auditor concluded that government agencies had not taken full advantage of benefits available under frequent flier schemes and other travel services.
As a taxpayer, I'm concerned that some government employees don't feel the need to obtain the best possible value for the taxpayers' funds they spend.
I'm also concerned that Australian jobs in companies like Rex and VB are at risk because some public servants don't like the 'no frills' service on short flights between Canberra and Sydney.
These positions are not mutually exclusive. If public servants think it's all too hard, then I respectfully suggest they look for work elsewhere, possibly in an environment where their own after tax capital is at risk.
I'm not a public servant. However, I am a taxpayer. As such, and with respect, I take some exception to the glib way in which public servants are dismissive of any criticism of their taxpayer funded profligacy.
In a recent report, the ACT Auditor General expressed concern about improper travel procedures and the lack of accountability in the use of frequent flier points by ACT public servants.
The Auditor concluded that government agencies had not taken full advantage of benefits available under frequent flier schemes and other travel services.
As a taxpayer, I'm concerned that some government employees don't feel the need to obtain the best possible value for the taxpayers' funds they spend.
I'm also concerned that Australian jobs in companies like Rex and VB are at risk because some public servants don't like the 'no frills' service on short flights between Canberra and Sydney.
These positions are not mutually exclusive. If public servants think it's all too hard, then I respectfully suggest they look for work elsewhere, possibly in an environment where their own after tax capital is at risk.
Argus
I have to respectfully disagree with you. As they say in private enterprise, time is money. Now I may not be a taxpayer in Australia anymore thank god, as the governments down there tax you to the eye balls and piss the money up against the wall on stupid stuff like single mothers pensions and family bonuses instead of important stuff like building decent roads, but I do commend them on not wasting their time and your tax payer dollars on waiting for inconvenient flights. DJ only has one flight a day between Canberra and Sydney. No wonder they aren’t picking up the government work. I would also suggest they aren’t picking up much private business work either. If they did the smart thing and increase frequency to match QF then they might pick up the work. Mind you QF does use a Dash 8 so can afford to have a higher frequency. I guess that is the big problem with the low cost model. If you only operate one aircraft type it doesn’t leave you much room to maneuver with frequency with marginal load factors.
I have to respectfully disagree with you. As they say in private enterprise, time is money. Now I may not be a taxpayer in Australia anymore thank god, as the governments down there tax you to the eye balls and piss the money up against the wall on stupid stuff like single mothers pensions and family bonuses instead of important stuff like building decent roads, but I do commend them on not wasting their time and your tax payer dollars on waiting for inconvenient flights. DJ only has one flight a day between Canberra and Sydney. No wonder they aren’t picking up the government work. I would also suggest they aren’t picking up much private business work either. If they did the smart thing and increase frequency to match QF then they might pick up the work. Mind you QF does use a Dash 8 so can afford to have a higher frequency. I guess that is the big problem with the low cost model. If you only operate one aircraft type it doesn’t leave you much room to maneuver with frequency with marginal load factors.
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404 Titan
Correct. But Rex has six.
Correct, and expect business to collect the government's tax for zilch.
Incorrect. The Rex schedule is spread throughout the day aimed at the public sector market departing CB first thing and returning in the late afternoon - early evening.
It's not the wasting of time that's the issue, although many public servants have first class honours degrees in time mismanagement. It's the deliberate avoidance of other than QF because the competition doesn't offer the same 'perks'; forcing airlines like Rex to cut back on staff, some of whom are ex Ansett employees and have been down the redundancy path before.
DJ only has one flight a day between Canberra and Sydney.
as the governments down there tax you to the eye balls
I do commend them on not wasting their time and your tax payer dollars on waiting for inconvenient flights.
It's not the wasting of time that's the issue, although many public servants have first class honours degrees in time mismanagement. It's the deliberate avoidance of other than QF because the competition doesn't offer the same 'perks'; forcing airlines like Rex to cut back on staff, some of whom are ex Ansett employees and have been down the redundancy path before.
Argus
Couldn’t give a rats **** about Rex. The thread is about DJ and how “THEY” are not getting the government work. If you want to start a different thread about Rex go for it. On this thread though please stick to the topic at hand and debate the topic and not try and divert the subject.
Couldn’t give a rats **** about Rex. The thread is about DJ and how “THEY” are not getting the government work. If you want to start a different thread about Rex go for it. On this thread though please stick to the topic at hand and debate the topic and not try and divert the subject.
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404 Titan
I respectfully refer you to the second paragraph of the first post.
Methinks you protesteth too much - but in the interests of continuing the debate, I'll desist!
I respectfully refer you to the second paragraph of the first post.
Public servants currently use Qantas for around 85 per cent of their travel, with only around 15 per cent of flights going to budget airlines.
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I agree wholeheartedly with Argus.
You dont see Rex squealing and bleating to the media at the drop of a hat when things dont pan out their way.
Its a sad indictment of VB's style of management that the media be addressed and the public be duped about them being the poor downtrodden airline whenever things dont go to plan.
The public only see Brett Godfrey when he is whingeing and whining like an old Rolls Royce Dart engine and I reackon most are getting sick and tired of being patronised like fools.
If you have a real gripe, maybe, but not every time things dont bode well.
How often did the former AN management or QF management lock horns publically and blamed their problems on others?
VB management style is to create a media circus with half truths and barely relevant facts.
You dont see Rex squealing and bleating to the media at the drop of a hat when things dont pan out their way.
Its a sad indictment of VB's style of management that the media be addressed and the public be duped about them being the poor downtrodden airline whenever things dont go to plan.
The public only see Brett Godfrey when he is whingeing and whining like an old Rolls Royce Dart engine and I reackon most are getting sick and tired of being patronised like fools.
If you have a real gripe, maybe, but not every time things dont bode well.
How often did the former AN management or QF management lock horns publically and blamed their problems on others?
VB management style is to create a media circus with half truths and barely relevant facts.
Music Quizmeister
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Well.....when we travel for work (a Government Department), we don't get FF points...haven't for several years now.
And pay for our Qantas Club membership out of our own pocket.
However, we are also NOT OBLIGED to travel QF - if you need to go at a certain time and whatever airline (other than QF) flies at that time...you can request that airline.
Did it out of Darwin two years ago - flew Ansett. Have flown Rex several times Syd - Canberra in recent times.
And although they are quasi-official....have travelled to the UK (on business) with BA rahter than QF becasue the timing suited us better.............
And pay for our Qantas Club membership out of our own pocket.
However, we are also NOT OBLIGED to travel QF - if you need to go at a certain time and whatever airline (other than QF) flies at that time...you can request that airline.
Did it out of Darwin two years ago - flew Ansett. Have flown Rex several times Syd - Canberra in recent times.
And although they are quasi-official....have travelled to the UK (on business) with BA rahter than QF becasue the timing suited us better.............
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scran
Is this strictly correct? Some years ago, when I was (dare I say but please don’t think ill of me) a pubic serpent, I recall that people above a certain grade (APS6 from memory), were paid an 'expenses of office allowance', from which QF and AN lounge memberships (and some other work related expenses) could be met.
Then along came a wage round, where, thanks to the CPSU and some creative management accounting, the 'expenses of office' allowance was grossed up and included in salary (including salary for super purposes), as part of a wage rise for so called senior officers. Made the % wage rise look good but included spondulicks that the punters were already being paid from public funds in another guise for nibblies and grog.
And pay for our Qantas Club membership out of our own pocket.
Then along came a wage round, where, thanks to the CPSU and some creative management accounting, the 'expenses of office' allowance was grossed up and included in salary (including salary for super purposes), as part of a wage rise for so called senior officers. Made the % wage rise look good but included spondulicks that the punters were already being paid from public funds in another guise for nibblies and grog.
Last edited by Argus; 19th Jul 2004 at 08:02.
Evertonian
In other news...
"This is a disgraceful monopoly & we aren't going to take it from the Feds any more!" This was the cry of Barry Bumcrack, a local Canberra taxi driver, on the issue of "Commonwealth cars" and market share.
Mr. Bumcrack said it was about time that public servants called a cab instead of a limousine as it was wasting the Public monies. He also indicated that there would be fewer cabs on the Parliament rank if this "downward spiral" continued.
"The public want to see their Prime Minister having a good look at one of our EF Falcons, on gas mind you, and then comparing the value when he looks at his fancy LTD with satelite navigation & DVD players. This is the message he should be sending to ordinary Australians who just want a fair go!" He went on to describe how, with advanced warning, he could even ensure that the windows would be down for "our Prime Ministers comfort".
"The bottom line is that these EF Falcons, on gas, are good for the economy, good for Australians and good enough for my Mum! And we think there should be legislation passed to ensure that EF Falcons are seen on Capitol hill for all the following generations to enjoy!"
The Federal Government declined to comment.
Mr. Bumcrack said it was about time that public servants called a cab instead of a limousine as it was wasting the Public monies. He also indicated that there would be fewer cabs on the Parliament rank if this "downward spiral" continued.
"The public want to see their Prime Minister having a good look at one of our EF Falcons, on gas mind you, and then comparing the value when he looks at his fancy LTD with satelite navigation & DVD players. This is the message he should be sending to ordinary Australians who just want a fair go!" He went on to describe how, with advanced warning, he could even ensure that the windows would be down for "our Prime Ministers comfort".
"The bottom line is that these EF Falcons, on gas, are good for the economy, good for Australians and good enough for my Mum! And we think there should be legislation passed to ensure that EF Falcons are seen on Capitol hill for all the following generations to enjoy!"
The Federal Government declined to comment.
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Can't it be summarised as:
1. B737 lousy choice of a/c for SYD-CBR-SYD (unless you want to lose money).
2. Blame the politicians instead of taking the blame as a well-meaning (but poor) DJ management decision.
In some ways I reckon it would be funny if the government called their bluff and split the travel 50/50 on that sector. I still can't see DJ preventing a loss but would be curious as to what would get blamed then...
1. B737 lousy choice of a/c for SYD-CBR-SYD (unless you want to lose money).
2. Blame the politicians instead of taking the blame as a well-meaning (but poor) DJ management decision.
In some ways I reckon it would be funny if the government called their bluff and split the travel 50/50 on that sector. I still can't see DJ preventing a loss but would be curious as to what would get blamed then...
GT-R
Gee that must have taken you ages to string those words together. Your intellectual abilities truly astound me.
Argus
Maybe it is a misunderstanding on my part but I didn’t realize Rex was a low cost carrier. I always thought they were a regional carrier. If you are referring to their affiliation with DJ then I stand corrected.
Argus and 404 Titan you can BOTH be wankers if you like.
Argus
Public servants currently use Qantas for around 85 per cent of their travel, with only around 15 per cent of flights going to budget airlines.
Music Quizmeister
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Argus - Absolutely true for me.
I'm a "public servant" that wears the same style of clotehs to work each day (although occassionally I pretend to be a tree...
And I pay for it directly out of my pocket (and I'm above an APS 6 equivalent
)
I'm a "public servant" that wears the same style of clotehs to work each day (although occassionally I pretend to be a tree...
And I pay for it directly out of my pocket (and I'm above an APS 6 equivalent
)
Evertonian
As sad as it sounds, I too have joined the ranks of the great unwashed in the Public Service. For the record, I got my own FF account on the rat, but I had it before joining, to be fair.
I imagine that most organisations have some form of Fringe Benefit that their employees can enjoy, but the Public Service is quite different. Where I am, the best I can do is flex time, and a rather expensive Novated lease option. Perhaps other areas have better perks than my area, but suffice to say that if an employee of any firm, public or private, is required to travel for their work, surely they can expect some flow on benefit to ensue?
If Virgin are so keen to get the Public traveller, why not match the competitions product? AN & QF battled for the hearts & dollars of Govt. accounts & it wasn't just price being used as ammunition.
I imagine that most organisations have some form of Fringe Benefit that their employees can enjoy, but the Public Service is quite different. Where I am, the best I can do is flex time, and a rather expensive Novated lease option. Perhaps other areas have better perks than my area, but suffice to say that if an employee of any firm, public or private, is required to travel for their work, surely they can expect some flow on benefit to ensue?
If Virgin are so keen to get the Public traveller, why not match the competitions product? AN & QF battled for the hearts & dollars of Govt. accounts & it wasn't just price being used as ammunition.
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Buster Hyman
That doesn't include job security, generous paid leave arrangements, a generally superior working environment, hourly 'smoko' breaks outside the building and a liberal employer super payment that's well ahead of private sector standards, does it?
I imagine that most organisations have some form of Fringe Benefit that their employees can enjoy, but the Public Service is quite different. Where I am, the best I can do is flex time, and a rather expensive Novated lease option.
Evertonian
Argus What else would I expect of a Liverpool supporter! 
Playing the Devils advocate for a bit here, so bear with me...
Job security...I would imagine that in most cases, this is true. However, there is a general shift onto performance contracts etc and I don't think it's as secure as it was...but yes, way better than some Private mobs for sure. Personally, I'm on contract until 2008 & even then, I'll get a months notice if I'm caught reading Pprune!!!
Generous paid leave...Again, perhaps with existing long term staff, but another area that's changing. I get 17.5% leave loading (same as AN for day workers) only noticeable difference is that I can take double the leave on half pay.
Superior working environment...Well, the equipment might be nice & the OH&S emphasis is appreciated, but I meant what I said about the great unwashed!!!
Hourly smoko...Don't smoke & the others here have to travel down 48 floors to do it...not many smokers around & it's certainly not scheduled here.
Super payment...9% industry standard here. Perhaps the higher levels get some other benefits & the historical funds may be better, but I think AN had an exceptional super scheme, hence all the litigation.
As a generalisation, the Public Service is more than likely a better, overall employer than some other areas, but I just don't think it's what it used to be.
If you think of Private companies & why they send staff in Business or First class, you should be able to apply the same standards, generally, to how the Public service chooses their carriers. I shan't elaborate as I think the Minister has just spotted me on Pprune!!!!!!
Playing the Devils advocate for a bit here, so bear with me...
Job security...I would imagine that in most cases, this is true. However, there is a general shift onto performance contracts etc and I don't think it's as secure as it was...but yes, way better than some Private mobs for sure. Personally, I'm on contract until 2008 & even then, I'll get a months notice if I'm caught reading Pprune!!!
Generous paid leave...Again, perhaps with existing long term staff, but another area that's changing. I get 17.5% leave loading (same as AN for day workers) only noticeable difference is that I can take double the leave on half pay.
Superior working environment...Well, the equipment might be nice & the OH&S emphasis is appreciated, but I meant what I said about the great unwashed!!!
Hourly smoko...Don't smoke & the others here have to travel down 48 floors to do it...not many smokers around & it's certainly not scheduled here.
Super payment...9% industry standard here. Perhaps the higher levels get some other benefits & the historical funds may be better, but I think AN had an exceptional super scheme, hence all the litigation.
As a generalisation, the Public Service is more than likely a better, overall employer than some other areas, but I just don't think it's what it used to be.
If you think of Private companies & why they send staff in Business or First class, you should be able to apply the same standards, generally, to how the Public service chooses their carriers. I shan't elaborate as I think the Minister has just spotted me on Pprune!!!!!!