Origin Pacific survives (for now)
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Origin Pacific survives (for now)
Interesting news today:
New Zealand's second biggest airline carrier appears to have rescued by its creditors which will lose millions of dollars in the move.
Origin Pacific's creditors voted on a rescue plan which would see them write off $7 million or 60% of the airline's debt.
The creditors, such as Wellington Airport, had little choice as voting against the plan would have most likely grounded the airline and left them with nothing.
The airline started getting into trouble last month when Qantas pulled out of a lucrative passenger-sharing arrangement that generated 30% of Origin's business. Origin is the only competitor to Air New Zealand on regional routes.
Its passengers, like Richard Wilson, want to keep it that way.
"I am always a battler for the smaller operator and I think they are doing a jolly good job. So they should keep going," he said.
Other passengers expressed concern ticket prices would rise if Origin dropped out of the market.
Origin's boss Robert Inglis has been battling to save the airline he set up eight years ago.
"Hopefully the impact won't be too severe. But what we are focusing on is that the bulk of Origin's operations continue and the majority of jobs are preserved," he said.
Next week 75 staff will lose their jobs and some of Origin Pacific's routes will be scrapped. But the layoffs have been signalled for some time.
"We've never had to make significant number of people redundant. Yes, it's very difficult," Inglis said.
Inglis and a partner will also pump in $2.5 million of their own money into the airline.
He says his airline was making money before the government rescued its main competitor - Air New Zealand.
"It has to be remembered they bailed out a foreign owned airline and allowed it to compete extremely aggressively with a 100% New Zealand owned airline," Inglis said.
Just how much of New Zealand's airline market Origin Pacific can keep out of the hands of foreigners is Inglis's ongoing challenge.
Source: RNZ
New Zealand's second biggest airline carrier appears to have rescued by its creditors which will lose millions of dollars in the move.
Origin Pacific's creditors voted on a rescue plan which would see them write off $7 million or 60% of the airline's debt.
The creditors, such as Wellington Airport, had little choice as voting against the plan would have most likely grounded the airline and left them with nothing.
The airline started getting into trouble last month when Qantas pulled out of a lucrative passenger-sharing arrangement that generated 30% of Origin's business. Origin is the only competitor to Air New Zealand on regional routes.
Its passengers, like Richard Wilson, want to keep it that way.
"I am always a battler for the smaller operator and I think they are doing a jolly good job. So they should keep going," he said.
Other passengers expressed concern ticket prices would rise if Origin dropped out of the market.
Origin's boss Robert Inglis has been battling to save the airline he set up eight years ago.
"Hopefully the impact won't be too severe. But what we are focusing on is that the bulk of Origin's operations continue and the majority of jobs are preserved," he said.
Next week 75 staff will lose their jobs and some of Origin Pacific's routes will be scrapped. But the layoffs have been signalled for some time.
"We've never had to make significant number of people redundant. Yes, it's very difficult," Inglis said.
Inglis and a partner will also pump in $2.5 million of their own money into the airline.
He says his airline was making money before the government rescued its main competitor - Air New Zealand.
"It has to be remembered they bailed out a foreign owned airline and allowed it to compete extremely aggressively with a 100% New Zealand owned airline," Inglis said.
Just how much of New Zealand's airline market Origin Pacific can keep out of the hands of foreigners is Inglis's ongoing challenge.
Source: RNZ
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Hey R.I,
How about you take some responsibility for your piss poor management decisions and stop blaming other companies!
You mean to tell us that you didn't expect Qantas to pull out of your code share agreement, when you wouldn't agree to an exclusive contract with QF?
How about you take some responsibility for your piss poor management decisions and stop blaming other companies!
You mean to tell us that you didn't expect Qantas to pull out of your code share agreement, when you wouldn't agree to an exclusive contract with QF?
Last edited by snail; 8th May 2004 at 06:17.
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Someone help me out here
Now I'm as pleased as anybody that Origin hasn't gone t!ts-up, they do, do a good job, AirNZ does need competition and NZ pilots don't need another airline to fall over, but......................
Let me see if I got this straight. Air NZ routes fall into NSN hands when the friendship days end, Air NSN pick them up, make a killing on (now)uncompetitive routes, then R.I sells Air NSN to Air NZ, gets rich and then sets up in oposition to that very company.
R.I. then makes it abundantly clear that he thinks the government bail-out has played a role in his (current) company's near demise????
1. It was AirNZ money that made him who he is.
2. If he doesn't like foreign owned airlines, why did he sell to AirNZ?
3. As already mentioned on this forum, had Origin been NZ's "overseas" airline, or"the face of NZ"internationally or supplied cargo space to some of our most lucrative exporters,etc then the government would have bailed them out instead of Air NZ(assuming the roles and not the names were reversed). Would he have complained then?
4. Why would you set up in oppositon to a "monopoly"?
I'm not trying to be a smart-arse, just a little sick of hearing about the bail-out. I wonder if anyone else can see the twisted irony in this?
Thump
ps: a little simplistic, I know so consider this a quick precis of the Air NSN situation rather than an in-depth analysis.
Let me see if I got this straight. Air NZ routes fall into NSN hands when the friendship days end, Air NSN pick them up, make a killing on (now)uncompetitive routes, then R.I sells Air NSN to Air NZ, gets rich and then sets up in oposition to that very company.
R.I. then makes it abundantly clear that he thinks the government bail-out has played a role in his (current) company's near demise????
1. It was AirNZ money that made him who he is.
2. If he doesn't like foreign owned airlines, why did he sell to AirNZ?
3. As already mentioned on this forum, had Origin been NZ's "overseas" airline, or"the face of NZ"internationally or supplied cargo space to some of our most lucrative exporters,etc then the government would have bailed them out instead of Air NZ(assuming the roles and not the names were reversed). Would he have complained then?
4. Why would you set up in oppositon to a "monopoly"?
I'm not trying to be a smart-arse, just a little sick of hearing about the bail-out. I wonder if anyone else can see the twisted irony in this?
Thump
ps: a little simplistic, I know so consider this a quick precis of the Air NSN situation rather than an in-depth analysis.
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He wasn't directly bailed out by NZ govt however Air NZ was a fairly big creditor that didn't pull the pin on him when they had the opportunity.. So where to next for OPAL? 
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Robert and Nicky have not done to many clever things here with O.P lately but in their defence think how many of you wouldn't of got a start in the airlines if these guys had never kicked off. If it wasn't for these small operators including the likes of Albatross, Pacifica, and James Air a lot of Pilots would still be driving singles or gone to another industry. I hope they survive for the sake of all involved.
So with other investors bringing money into OPAL does this mean that RI's shareholding will decrease and if so his control over the company? I have heard that his management style is "My way or the highway" which may explain the huge turnover in lower managers such as marketing, is it 13 since they started?
The loss the company has acknowledged is 12 mill but RI has pumped in 16 mill of his own over the last 6-9 months (even before QF pulled out of the codeshare) so the real loss is in the region of 28 mill. I personally hope they get some goodpeople in there who will make the staff happy and the company productive.
The loss the company has acknowledged is 12 mill but RI has pumped in 16 mill of his own over the last 6-9 months (even before QF pulled out of the codeshare) so the real loss is in the region of 28 mill. I personally hope they get some goodpeople in there who will make the staff happy and the company productive.
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I agree with some of what you chaps have mentioned above (especially aerocom) but im a bit indifferent to some of it.
thump - just because airnz brought part of his old airline off him doesnt mean he has to kiss their
for the rest of his life. I cant really remember back that far (as i was probably still in primary school) but was the ownership of airnz the same then as we see today?
Really whether Robert likes it or not the govt really had to bail out airnz (if no other takers had been interested) as it is nz's only locally operated interntional airline, otherwise we could be quickly isolated by other carriers and we'd end up with international and limited domestic service, but the govt is setting a dangerous precident if it bails out one private company that finds itself in trouble, where do you draw the line?
tay611 - I dont think airnz were anywhere close to being the biggest creditor (about $350k)but... If there is no domestic compitition in nz, then how much of a chance has airnz got of getting it's alliance with qantas?... slim to all.
Its not over till the fat lady start singing.
thump - just because airnz brought part of his old airline off him doesnt mean he has to kiss their
for the rest of his life. I cant really remember back that far (as i was probably still in primary school) but was the ownership of airnz the same then as we see today?Really whether Robert likes it or not the govt really had to bail out airnz (if no other takers had been interested) as it is nz's only locally operated interntional airline, otherwise we could be quickly isolated by other carriers and we'd end up with
international and limited domestic service, but the govt is setting a dangerous precident if it bails out one private company that finds itself in trouble, where do you draw the line?tay611 - I dont think airnz were anywhere close to being the biggest creditor (about $350k)but... If there is no domestic compitition in nz, then how much of a chance has airnz got of getting it's alliance with qantas?... slim to
all.Its not over till the fat lady start singing.
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Word around the playground is that there has been a major shakeup at middle-management level.
Perhaps there is some truth that RI didn't know the real situation of his company because his faithful middle-management didn't give him the real picture.
In any case, a shakeup has got to be good. We can all agree that continuing on in the same style is disasterous.
Also, I hear that RI is very likely to become a minority shareholder soon with the injection of some capital from new investors. This also can only be good.
Watch this space. The game's not over yet.
Bombay
Perhaps there is some truth that RI didn't know the real situation of his company because his faithful middle-management didn't give him the real picture.
In any case, a shakeup has got to be good. We can all agree that continuing on in the same style is disasterous.
Also, I hear that RI is very likely to become a minority shareholder soon with the injection of some capital from new investors. This also can only be good.
Watch this space. The game's not over yet.
Bombay
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ZK-NSN,
That fat lady must be ready to sing soon, cause she's been warming up with her vocal scales for a while now.
My question/thought is:
Surely the creditors that are prepared to write off 60% of their debt and wait 5 years for the other 40% are not going to let OPAL have credit as before, therefore I assume cash up front or on-time payments would be the likely scenario, if OPAl couldn't pay bills at all, let alone on time how will they cope with the new arrangement?
The fat lady is clearing her throat.
S2K
That fat lady must be ready to sing soon, cause she's been warming up with her vocal scales for a while now.
My question/thought is:
Surely the creditors that are prepared to write off 60% of their debt and wait 5 years for the other 40% are not going to let OPAL have credit as before, therefore I assume cash up front or on-time payments would be the likely scenario, if OPAl couldn't pay bills at all, let alone on time how will they cope with the new arrangement?
The fat lady is clearing her throat.
S2K
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With the amount of restructuring & changes in routes etc I think the Fat Lady will properly Hibernate for the winter & she won't be out and about till atleast ( hopefully never ) till the silly season begins ,who knows what will happen after winter ..........
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S2K let's hope the fat biatch falls off the stage before she hits the high note aye?
NSN, not suggesting Robert kiss ar$e because Air NZ bought all of his old airline, merely that, back then he obviously thought he couldn't beat 'em so joined them, then it was OK this time it's not alright? Twisted irony no?
The whole bail-out thing is a rouge herring I believe. Whether you be in business,sport or trying to get your first flying/paying/twin/IFR/turbine (delete that which is not applicable)job the one thing you can't complain or worry about is what the other guy has got/does/did, the thing you have control over is YOU. There's no point in concerning yourself with HIM because there's probably diddly you can do about it, you just make yourself better (point of difference/price/value/flash as suitetc).
As for AirNZ's owners at that point, Qantas had 50% around then didn't it? - more irony for ya.
If you were at primary back then, I must be getting old!
Thump
NSN, not suggesting Robert kiss ar$e because Air NZ bought all of his old airline, merely that, back then he obviously thought he couldn't beat 'em so joined them, then it was OK this time it's not alright? Twisted irony no?
The whole bail-out thing is a rouge herring I believe. Whether you be in business,sport or trying to get your first flying/paying/twin/IFR/turbine (delete that which is not applicable)job the one thing you can't complain or worry about is what the other guy has got/does/did, the thing you have control over is YOU. There's no point in concerning yourself with HIM because there's probably diddly you can do about it, you just make yourself better (point of difference/price/value/flash as suit
etc).As for AirNZ's owners at that point, Qantas had 50% around then didn't it? - more irony for ya.
If you were at primary back then, I must be getting old!
Thump
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Let's hope that those who are facing the loss of their job with Origin and who are NZ ALPA members get some help in job hunting by the Union.
I appreciate that in the past the thieving, POS that make up the union's upper hierachy have repeatedly screwed their members over (when they weren't kicking them in the teeth) and spent union money on anything but supporting their members.
But I remain hopeful that for once they will decide to totally change their ways and actually help instead.
I appreciate that in the past the thieving, POS that make up the union's upper hierachy have repeatedly screwed their members over (when they weren't kicking them in the teeth) and spent union money on anything but supporting their members.
But I remain hopeful that for once they will decide to totally change their ways and actually help instead.
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Split flap - Thanks for that disturbing mental picture mate. If i didnt already have enough trouble getting to sleep at night. Can anybody recommend a good therapist?
blueline is right. there is a load of changes going on at origin so give it time. as was mentioned in the agreement with creditors all bills from 01/04/04 will be paid in full when they fall due and yes some companies are requiring money up front (fair enough too)
Thump - I see your point, but still cant agree with you 100%. Keep your freinds close and your enemies even closer. there comes a point where Bob needs to quit crying about it and get on with it. your only as old as the woman you feel dude.
blueline is right. there is a
load of changes going on at origin so give it time. as was mentioned in the agreement with creditors all bills from 01/04/04 will be paid in full when they fall due and yes some companies are requiring money up front (fair enough too)Thump - I see your point, but still cant agree with you 100%. Keep your freinds close and your enemies even closer. there comes a point where Bob needs to quit crying about it and get on with it. your only as old as the woman you feel dude.
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I was going to say you must be a young man then Thump
Has anybody ever wonered how the big Q (jet conn) managed to get into this country and stay here after shafting ORG? Surley the Bee Hive wouldn't be happy about it.
splat
Has anybody ever wonered how the big Q (jet conn) managed to get into this country and stay here after shafting ORG? Surley the Bee Hive wouldn't be happy about it.
splat
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Let me riddle you this........................
Origin has never been in a stonger position
Heard that form a source within OPAL then I thought well maybe? when the company started up back in 1997 as a charter airline and then grew from there, it would have incured all the normal start up costs associated with a new airline, buildings,planes crew training ect ect and where Origin sit at the mo is a fully operational airline that has effectivly zeroed it's bank balance.
And in saying that if OPAL do have a investment partner or code share in the wind, say PB or EK I'm sure they be saying to RI dude we ant't haven a bar of this place while it's in the red get it sorted and then we can talk turky.
OPAL was in the red round fig's 12 big ones four weeks after the code share deal was axed, I simply don't buy that, that's three mill a week I mean I know the boyz are haven great time there but that's a pretty big habbit.
So what I'm saying is that the company must have been loosing that coin even while the code share deal was going or were they??
So why would a company continue to opperate if it was loosing money while it was ment to be in a good market position only to reinvent it self in a worse market position? either RI is got somthing on the table or is very smart man or delaying liquidation next time the bills pile up again . look who was owed the most amount of money buy OPAL, Air NZ(say no more) Air ways 2 mill (govt owned,get that one up ya ) BAE (origin dirty @ them for been shafted on J41 lease deals) don't forget all the little guys been paid in full.
So maybe these creditors may have even been targeted over time? you don't crank up these kind of debt over nite,Cos I'm sure the fuel man would not be owed a cent!
Look who's been in every paper, Tv and raido the last two weeks and portrayed and the "little guy being bullyed" whats
that worth?
Who need's a labour govt bail out , just a smart accountant
Origin has never been in a stonger position
Heard that form a source within OPAL then I thought well maybe? when the company started up back in 1997 as a charter airline and then grew from there, it would have incured all the normal start up costs associated with a new airline, buildings,planes crew training ect ect and where Origin sit at the mo is a fully operational airline that has effectivly zeroed it's bank balance.
And in saying that if OPAL do have a investment partner or code share in the wind, say PB or EK I'm sure they be saying to RI dude we ant't haven a bar of this place while it's in the red get it sorted and then we can talk turky.
OPAL was in the red round fig's 12 big ones four weeks after the code share deal was axed, I simply don't buy that, that's three mill a week I mean I know the boyz are haven great time there but that's a pretty big habbit.
So what I'm saying is that the company must have been loosing that coin even while the code share deal was going or were they??
So why would a company continue to opperate if it was loosing money while it was ment to be in a good market position only to reinvent it self in a worse market position? either RI is got somthing on the table or is very smart man or delaying liquidation next time the bills pile up again . look who was owed the most amount of money buy OPAL, Air NZ(say no more) Air ways 2 mill (govt owned,get that one up ya ) BAE (origin dirty @ them for been shafted on J41 lease deals) don't forget all the little guys been paid in full.
So maybe these creditors may have even been targeted over time? you don't crank up these kind of debt over nite,Cos I'm sure the fuel man would not be owed a cent!
Look who's been in every paper, Tv and raido the last two weeks and portrayed and the "little guy being bullyed" whats
that worth?
Who need's a labour govt bail out , just a smart accountant