A question with questionable answers!
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proplever really cares about the QF regionals;
And good old proplevers response;
:ok
Hugh, what are your thoughts, and that of your colleagues with regards to the rapid advancement of the Impulse pilots.? Remember less than four years ago they were doing what you are now. Do you see the bypass of your group as reasonable?
posted by spinout 2nd December 2001 13:45 thats qantas for you they would rather take ansett pilots than promote pilots from their regionals!
posted by proplever 5th December 2001 23:47 Spinout; surely you realised that when you took your regional job, didn't you???
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Darling Prop, not chucking a tanty/taking your bat & ball and going home I hope? Good to see you can recognise insults when they're inbound - god knows, you dish enough of them out! By the way, don't you think the line about 'crapping in own nests' is wearing a bit thin? Or do you have some sort of copyright?
Now I've just realised I neglected to answer your earlier question about weakening the position of 'Oz airline pilots. Can't have unanswered questions now, can we?
The answer is fairly short - "I don't know, only time will tell!" Things like actual overtime $'s, the results of new EBA negotiations, possible future profit sharing etc etc will become more apparant as years go by. Only then will VQ be able to be judged one way or the other. (You can't wait that long 'tho, can you?)
Another consideration might be results of J*'s hiring policy - the head IPC guy is adamant that 'Red Tail' guys will be a priority recruiting target. Wouldn't it be ironic if NJS/SAA/EAA guys end up being helped out by those VQ 'vermin' when the QF 'good guys' have only ever looked the other way? Would you still hate us then? Oh, that's right - we only "take what we can right now..." Did that bit about looking after our 1900 mates go thru to the keeper, or is it just a foreign concept to you?
Hope that answers your question, certainly it's the only answer I can give with the limited 'info I have to hand.
Now maybe you could return the favour and answer my earlier question. (Maybe you could edit that last post to be your 'penultimate word'?)
My question was what would 'ICanPassQFTestingAndYouCan'tSoThere' Proplever (aka SkyGod) have done if he were in the cheap worn out shoes of an Impulse pilot? Remember - pretend you're staring at potential redundancy, you've a mortgage & kids, there's time pressure on the decision and you know full well your "parent" company's history of ignoring it's affiliates.
I know it's an unpalatable thought process but humour me for a minute. Someone of your towering intellect is bound to have
the perfect solution close to hand! Don't be shy now, enlighten us all - what would Prop have done?
Then, and only then, you can have your nice cup of "shut the @#$% up!"
Now I've just realised I neglected to answer your earlier question about weakening the position of 'Oz airline pilots. Can't have unanswered questions now, can we?
The answer is fairly short - "I don't know, only time will tell!" Things like actual overtime $'s, the results of new EBA negotiations, possible future profit sharing etc etc will become more apparant as years go by. Only then will VQ be able to be judged one way or the other. (You can't wait that long 'tho, can you?)
Another consideration might be results of J*'s hiring policy - the head IPC guy is adamant that 'Red Tail' guys will be a priority recruiting target. Wouldn't it be ironic if NJS/SAA/EAA guys end up being helped out by those VQ 'vermin' when the QF 'good guys' have only ever looked the other way? Would you still hate us then? Oh, that's right - we only "take what we can right now..." Did that bit about looking after our 1900 mates go thru to the keeper, or is it just a foreign concept to you?
Hope that answers your question, certainly it's the only answer I can give with the limited 'info I have to hand.
Now maybe you could return the favour and answer my earlier question. (Maybe you could edit that last post to be your 'penultimate word'?)
My question was what would 'ICanPassQFTestingAndYouCan'tSoThere' Proplever (aka SkyGod) have done if he were in the cheap worn out shoes of an Impulse pilot? Remember - pretend you're staring at potential redundancy, you've a mortgage & kids, there's time pressure on the decision and you know full well your "parent" company's history of ignoring it's affiliates.
I know it's an unpalatable thought process but humour me for a minute. Someone of your towering intellect is bound to have
the perfect solution close to hand! Don't be shy now, enlighten us all - what would Prop have done?
Then, and only then, you can have your nice cup of "shut the @#$% up!"
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Nope, I've promised Woomera (et al how many of you are there anyway?).
But thanks for your attempt to address the question, fluffy. You are the first yet to do so. Nice to see that an argument can be had without playing the man, although you did give me a little curry there, didn't you?
LGR? There's a spot on 60 Minutes for you with selective cutting and pasting like that. You really are gutter filth, aren't you?
But, no comment. I'm going back to my knitting, now.
But thanks for your attempt to address the question, fluffy. You are the first yet to do so. Nice to see that an argument can be had without playing the man, although you did give me a little curry there, didn't you?
LGR? There's a spot on 60 Minutes for you with selective cutting and pasting like that. You really are gutter filth, aren't you?
But, no comment. I'm going back to my knitting, now.
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FluffyBunnyFeet,
Just so the IPG knows the difference between EAA, SSA and NJS,
Both EEA and SSA are wholly owned just like Impulse and are therefore Qantas employees.
NJS however is not owned by Qantas and as such their pilots are not Qantas employees. NJS contract to Airlink which is wholly owned.
I don’t have a problem with NJS, I would prefer that all Red Tailed aircraft (as you put it) were operated by employees of Qantas not contractors.
I also find it hard to understand Mainlines attitude to Impulse when NJS have for years operated Jets owned by Qantas over Qantas routes, at reduced rates compared to mainline, how many commands did that cost.....
Is there a double standard or have I missed something?
Now if Qantas decide to purchase NJS and call them Jetstar Light and offer them less than impulse accepted, while saying take it or lose your job…..
Just so the IPG knows the difference between EAA, SSA and NJS,
Both EEA and SSA are wholly owned just like Impulse and are therefore Qantas employees.
NJS however is not owned by Qantas and as such their pilots are not Qantas employees. NJS contract to Airlink which is wholly owned.
I don’t have a problem with NJS, I would prefer that all Red Tailed aircraft (as you put it) were operated by employees of Qantas not contractors.
I also find it hard to understand Mainlines attitude to Impulse when NJS have for years operated Jets owned by Qantas over Qantas routes, at reduced rates compared to mainline, how many commands did that cost.....
Is there a double standard or have I missed something?
Now if Qantas decide to purchase NJS and call them Jetstar Light and offer them less than impulse accepted, while saying take it or lose your job…..
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Hugh Jarse,
Unfortunately I feel the need to wade in here after your post.
I can not, for the life of me, believe that you are using ignorance of the fact that redundancies were occuring at Impulse as a reason for why not many of the redundant guys got interviews/positions at the regionals. Everyone I spoke to around the time already knew.
What would I suggest they have done- all management were apparently in consultation(quote from our management), so the promised interview is all that I would have asked for nothing more nothing less. If we didn't get in fine(I am not about to believe in conspiracy theory, even if they do exist). But I can tell you now, I did apply to both and still have applications in, easily exceed the min aeronautical experience, have passes Qantas stage 1 testing, ensured politely that both companies had received my application and guess what not even an interview and believe me I am not alone. Please don't take this as sour grapes(I will walk my own path and take my own chance) I just feel the need to set the record straight.
Personally I would like to thank the IPC for the deal made, there is something to be said for "looking after the groups interest", job wise because everyone else seemed to be waiting for ALL of us just to go away.
Unfortunately I feel the need to wade in here after your post.
I can not, for the life of me, believe that you are using ignorance of the fact that redundancies were occuring at Impulse as a reason for why not many of the redundant guys got interviews/positions at the regionals. Everyone I spoke to around the time already knew.
What would I suggest they have done- all management were apparently in consultation(quote from our management), so the promised interview is all that I would have asked for nothing more nothing less. If we didn't get in fine(I am not about to believe in conspiracy theory, even if they do exist). But I can tell you now, I did apply to both and still have applications in, easily exceed the min aeronautical experience, have passes Qantas stage 1 testing, ensured politely that both companies had received my application and guess what not even an interview and believe me I am not alone. Please don't take this as sour grapes(I will walk my own path and take my own chance) I just feel the need to set the record straight.
Personally I would like to thank the IPC for the deal made, there is something to be said for "looking after the groups interest", job wise because everyone else seemed to be waiting for ALL of us just to go away.
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When the B1900 was removed and pilots became redundant in impulse, (it happened in Eastern when the Jetstream was removed, and no one gave a toss), they retained their right to go back to impulse when a position became available, and that’s fine but to expect another company, remember there was and still is no agreement between the subsidiaries, to take on and train pilots knowing they were going to leave, what would you expect them to do.
Remember it was the pilots at Eastern that tried to organize an integration agreement that gave impulse pilots rights over everyone else for perpetuity that they found unacceptable. This would have insured that any redundant pilot would have been put on before anyone off the street but like I said it was the IPC that rejected it.
Remember also its Qantas that ultimately say who is hired not the pilot groups.
Remember it was the pilots at Eastern that tried to organize an integration agreement that gave impulse pilots rights over everyone else for perpetuity that they found unacceptable. This would have insured that any redundant pilot would have been put on before anyone off the street but like I said it was the IPC that rejected it.
Remember also its Qantas that ultimately say who is hired not the pilot groups.
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Spinout,
I agree with the first part of your post but a promise was made to interview, if it wasn't I agree we had no right to expect ANYTHING, but a promise was made, and some people on this forum believe we were given priority into the other regionals, THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE and that is the point I wanted to make.
with reference to the integration thing this actually occured later, after the promises had been broken but at least one bloke benifited as the regional tryed to get the integration up.
I agree with the first part of your post but a promise was made to interview, if it wasn't I agree we had no right to expect ANYTHING, but a promise was made, and some people on this forum believe we were given priority into the other regionals, THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE and that is the point I wanted to make.
with reference to the integration thing this actually occured later, after the promises had been broken but at least one bloke benifited as the regional tryed to get the integration up.
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Of course it could not have happened however, it would have been interesting to witness Prop guy and Keg et al's career choice if QANTAS had folded, not ANSETT. 
Also, are all the 1900 guys really going directly on the bus as captains?
Also, are all the 1900 guys really going directly on the bus as captains?
Last edited by E.P.; 31st Mar 2004 at 09:14.
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You're on a hiding to nothing here Keg and Proplever!!
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another junior flyer
but amos is the one who's already edited his comeback. Musta been even more hoot-worthy before that......
"going 15 intellectual rounds with amos".... I just keep getting a mental image of the scene in Matrix where neo thinks about what to have for dinner while slapping shiite outa agent smith with one-hand.
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Hi All,
Alright - I know I am going to probably get myself into sh*t over this but here goes it:
As an observer from overseas (6 years) and not actually being interested in a airline job I am just trying to understand what is going on back there in OZ. A couple of questions for you all,
1. what are the non Qantas guys earning gross p.a. (and don't redirect me to the archives - the kids won't let me have that much computer time)?
2. How many hours per week are they working?
3. Overall is it strenuous - how many decisions regarding emergencies/diversions have to be made on a monthly basis opposed to cruising and enjoying the sights?
4. Does the pay fit the job description/tasking?
5. Aren't other industries being asked to do more for less - is this any different.
6. What sort of lifestyle does their package offer them and their families compared to the rest of society?
7. Is this any different to what is going on in UK and US (easyjet ryanair etc)
Insterested in constructive level headed comments only - the emotional and unstable need not reply
cheers,
CSL
Alright - I know I am going to probably get myself into sh*t over this but here goes it:
As an observer from overseas (6 years) and not actually being interested in a airline job I am just trying to understand what is going on back there in OZ. A couple of questions for you all,
1. what are the non Qantas guys earning gross p.a. (and don't redirect me to the archives - the kids won't let me have that much computer time)?
2. How many hours per week are they working?
3. Overall is it strenuous - how many decisions regarding emergencies/diversions have to be made on a monthly basis opposed to cruising and enjoying the sights?
4. Does the pay fit the job description/tasking?
5. Aren't other industries being asked to do more for less - is this any different.
6. What sort of lifestyle does their package offer them and their families compared to the rest of society?
7. Is this any different to what is going on in UK and US (easyjet ryanair etc)
Insterested in constructive level headed comments only - the emotional and unstable need not reply
cheers,
CSL
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proplever, not much support for you here but I will say, I liked the post re the psycho-analysis by Kaptin M.
And I don't like being grilled about when I joined.
But here's my question: Since it is the airline management that calls the shots, do you really think the influence wielded by the IPG is anything more than lip service when it came to setting down the conditions of service?
And when it was laid on the table, if you took any average joe off the street, do you really think that bloke is going to turn down a better job offered today in favour of a maybe with qantas tomorrow or after an out-right "No" from same? Think about how many pilots there are out there compared to how many make it to AN/QF (now obviously just QF)
And I don't like being grilled about when I joined.
But here's my question: Since it is the airline management that calls the shots, do you really think the influence wielded by the IPG is anything more than lip service when it came to setting down the conditions of service?
And when it was laid on the table, if you took any average joe off the street, do you really think that bloke is going to turn down a better job offered today in favour of a maybe with qantas tomorrow or after an out-right "No" from same? Think about how many pilots there are out there compared to how many make it to AN/QF (now obviously just QF)
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4. Does the pay fit the job description/tasking?
Lordy, give me strength!Sorry, itchy, much as I'd like to respond, I'm on a promise to the Woomeri. I might have a few far right ideals, but I am good to my word.
Now stop teasing me, pleeeeaaasse?
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CSL,
If you want stable, level-headed, unemotional answers, you must ask stable, level-headed, unemotional questions.
By reading between the lines, I feel you are really saying this:
1. What do you guys really earn? - just tell me I don't want to look up the contract.
2. Surely airline pilots don't work that many hours to warrant all this angst?
3. You rarely ever have an emergency, why do you feel you deserve more money?
4. Don't you think you get paid what you're worth?
5. Everbody's cutting each others throat to get work - why are pilots any different?
6. Surely you guys get a better deal than the rest of society - travel, hotels, allowances?
7. Everywhere else in the world is screwing pilot's wages - why shouldn't Australia go the same way?
Or maybe I've just misunderstood you.
If you want stable, level-headed, unemotional answers, you must ask stable, level-headed, unemotional questions.
By reading between the lines, I feel you are really saying this:
1. What do you guys really earn? - just tell me I don't want to look up the contract.
2. Surely airline pilots don't work that many hours to warrant all this angst?
3. You rarely ever have an emergency, why do you feel you deserve more money?
4. Don't you think you get paid what you're worth?
5. Everbody's cutting each others throat to get work - why are pilots any different?
6. Surely you guys get a better deal than the rest of society - travel, hotels, allowances?
7. Everywhere else in the world is screwing pilot's wages - why shouldn't Australia go the same way?
Or maybe I've just misunderstood you.
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Unfortunately I feel the need to wade in here after your post.
I can not, for the life of me, believe that you are using ignorance of the fact that redundancies were occuring at Impulse as a reason for why not many of the redundant guys got interviews/positions at the regionals. Everyone I spoke to around the time already knew.
I can not, for the life of me, believe that you are using ignorance of the fact that redundancies were occuring at Impulse as a reason for why not many of the redundant guys got interviews/positions at the regionals. Everyone I spoke to around the time already knew.
But I can tell you now, I did apply to both and still have applications in, easily exceed the min aeronautical experience, have passes Qantas stage 1 testing, ensured politely that both companies had received my application and guess what not even an interview and believe me I am not alone. Please don't take this as sour grapes(I will walk my own path and take my own chance) I just feel the need to set the record straight.
All I can suggest is that if your circumstances are unchanged, you make some phone calls to the relevant HR departments. You might get some satisfaction there......
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1. No - happy with my 200k tax free per year for instructing
2. Happy with my 40 hour a week
3. Do you??
4. Are you??
5. Correct??
6. better than Joe Bloe the Grabo - do you agree
7. Airlines are there for shareholders - profit profit profit
CSL
2. Happy with my 40 hour a week
3. Do you??
4. Are you??
5. Correct??
6. better than Joe Bloe the Grabo - do you agree
7. Airlines are there for shareholders - profit profit profit
CSL
