Australian Airlines exodus of pilots to Dragonair
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Ok not a pilot but a controller working in the UAE, but very similair situation to the expat pilots. Tax free pay, medical cover paid for by company, school paid for for my two kids at a top notch private school, furnished accomodation paid for (ok its a 3 BR flat not a house, but pros and cons), return flight to oz paid for each year, water, electricity and telephone rent paid for, 8 weeks leave per year, and a nice golden handshake when I leave. I say that if you take the blinkers off and realise there is a great world out there, you can spend 5-10 years O/S and well and truly set yourself up.
I can understand the whole family happiness thing being a consideration, but for the life of me I can't understand why a single bloke who is a pilot or controller, would not take the opportunity to live overseas for 10 years, have the time of their life, make great friends, drink way too much beer, and go home with wads of cash.
Anyway each to their own.
I can understand the whole family happiness thing being a consideration, but for the life of me I can't understand why a single bloke who is a pilot or controller, would not take the opportunity to live overseas for 10 years, have the time of their life, make great friends, drink way too much beer, and go home with wads of cash.
Anyway each to their own.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
UK ain't tax free. Not all of us can work in the Middle east.
Australian Airlines exodus of pilots to Dragonair
The DFO's comment still seems to be somewhat relevant, albeit in a slightly different context....
To my mind, Kaptin M's comments are also accurate. It's difficult to convey how rewarding an expat pilot job can be when talking to someone who has not experienced it.
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spinout
I think you have hit the nail on the head......but those real sharp execs. of Jetstar don't see a problem, after all the planes come with the training for the Impulse guys and the rest buy their own endorsements!
I think you have hit the nail on the head......but those real sharp execs. of Jetstar don't see a problem, after all the planes come with the training for the Impulse guys and the rest buy their own endorsements!
Fortune favours the brave - ballsy move by the gentleman concerned.
Aviation a funny thing too. Maybe, just maybe, Dragonair will be a quicker route to a Sydney based 330 Command or F/O slot than Australian Airlines!
A handful of Ansett pilots noted writing on the wall. The rot started with Kendell's CRJs and an indifferent union-sound familar? Anyway, they pulled the pin months before the collapse, didn't swim with all the rats post collapse and Sept 11, and most achieved rapid command promotons.
With globalisation occurring quicker in aviation than other industries, slow promoting, career airlines such as QF may be foolish places to be.
Aviation a funny thing too. Maybe, just maybe, Dragonair will be a quicker route to a Sydney based 330 Command or F/O slot than Australian Airlines!
A handful of Ansett pilots noted writing on the wall. The rot started with Kendell's CRJs and an indifferent union-sound familar? Anyway, they pulled the pin months before the collapse, didn't swim with all the rats post collapse and Sept 11, and most achieved rapid command promotons.
With globalisation occurring quicker in aviation than other industries, slow promoting, career airlines such as QF may be foolish places to be.
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Smartest move these guys could have made.
With the cancer spreading rapidly in Australian Aviation with the likes of Vb,Jetstar and the kiwi low cost carriers flying the tasman, any opportunity to work for overseas carriers that will put you in a far superior financial position is well worth taking.
Lifetsyle in Oz working for Vb- you have got to be joking!!!!
The career progression that is offered overseas also has it all over flogging around Australia in a 737 for little or next to no coin.
With the cancer spreading rapidly in Australian Aviation with the likes of Vb,Jetstar and the kiwi low cost carriers flying the tasman, any opportunity to work for overseas carriers that will put you in a far superior financial position is well worth taking.
Lifetsyle in Oz working for Vb- you have got to be joking!!!!
The career progression that is offered overseas also has it all over flogging around Australia in a 737 for little or next to no coin.
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Well said Iakklat! All this BS about the so called great life style in Australia, please, give it a break folks! Nothing wrong with Aus but it's no better than most places around the globe. The people who seem to have the most problems as expats are the ones who keep looking over their shoulders. As for thre low cost operators, if they are going to exploit pilots then it only makes sense that pilots should exploit them.
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"With globalisation occurring quicker in aviation than other industries, slow promoting, career airlines such as QF may be foolish places to be."
Gnad, what a load of malarky.
Have you heard of the IASC?
Do you know how hard it is for non nationals to get work rights in Oz?
How many foreign owned and operated airlines are permitted to fly domestic sectors freely within Oz?
How many local pilots do QF have based in Manilla or Bangkok?
These are barriers that no longer impede many other industries from globalising thier business and operations - hope like hell the airline industry doesnt globalise like some others already have.
Gnad, what a load of malarky.
Have you heard of the IASC?
Do you know how hard it is for non nationals to get work rights in Oz?
How many foreign owned and operated airlines are permitted to fly domestic sectors freely within Oz?
How many local pilots do QF have based in Manilla or Bangkok?
These are barriers that no longer impede many other industries from globalising thier business and operations - hope like hell the airline industry doesnt globalise like some others already have.
How many foreign owned and operated airlines are permitted to fly domestic sectors freely within Oz?
Any who want to as much as they want to...
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Well said Iakklat! All this BS about the so called great life style in Australia, please, give it a break folks!
RTFORU/Iakklat - I have to disagree with you here lads.
I've just spent some time in Asia and the middle east visiting friends working for a few different airlines that offer a career - not just a contract.
The resounding opinion of those that have spent much time in those countries is that they are not truely happy there - they are just there for the money and the simple fact that they were offered a job in those countries and not Australia which suited them at that time.
They dont enjoy their lifestyles that much but they earn good money, have nice cars/properties etc, live in what are considered affluent areas and socialise primarily with other airline staff.
At every available opportunity they get out of those places and either come back to Oz for a stint or holiday somewhere briefly.
Thats their saving grace.
One mate who has spent a long time in the desert gave a good quote.
"I live a one of the wealthiest states but consider myself a second class citizen in whats effectively a third world country in terms of legal rights".
Some guys that went overseas some time back reackoned they would do it for 5 or 10 years tops then come home.
That was 15-20 years ago!
Young guys just starting out are enjoying themselves but the novelty hasnt quite worn off.
The jury is still out on those guys.
For some that go overseas and things dont go quite to plan (career/family/health etc) or they are not really happy, then matters are compounded by being a long way from home.
The opinion of 4 different friends and their wives after much time in the desert and asia is that they would be home in a flash if they were offered a job flying reasonable equipment in their port of choice.
As for the Australian lifestyle guys, just woke up and went down the beach for a surf (2 mins away), had a cuppa and breakfast in a cafe with a few schoolmates and watched the waves roll in from the pacific ocean.
Playing golf this arvo, taking the dog for a run then going to visit the family farm down the coast tonight after a 2 hour country drive.
Catching up with some mates at the old local tomorrow night for a good steak and a few bottles of red.
No - its not fiction.
Yes - I am bloody fortunate to be able to do these things and get paid reasonably well to support my very basic lifestyle.
I consider myself blessed.
All I can say is that if I were to go overseas the money would have to be a whole lot more than Emirates/Singapore/Japan/Dragon/Cathay/Gulf Air are paying in order to compensate.
Rockarpee hit the nail on the head when he said "what price do you put on living in Australia/NZ."
If the money and lifestyle were that great then these companies would be beseiged by applications and the Oz airlines would have to employ from elsewhere.
RTFORU - you may have made the right decision for you and are happy which is great, but dont go rubbishing Australia or our lifestyle which in my opinion is second to none.
The weather is great, the skies are clear and everyone speaks our language (taxi drivers and convenience store owners are exempt here).
Feel free however to rubbish our politicians at any time!!
In a world gone mad there is nowhere else I'd rather be.
IAKLATT - my mates in VB based in Brisbane and Melbourne are doing just fine raising their families and living in nice homes on what you describe "for no coin".
They have enough to live on and enjoy their lifestyle choice.
Perhaps you'd like to tell us where you are working, for whom, what you earn and how you spend your time?
As a famous individual once wrote "Home is where your family is".
No truer words.
Last edited by TIMMEEEE; 17th Mar 2004 at 23:43.
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Yeah - an maybe it's cos none of youse could get those high payin' bl@@dy jobs overseas!!
They figger they're left with the rejects here in good ol' Ozzie, so why pay 'em the big bucks!
After all's said n done, the flyin' here is pretty piss easy so far as the weathers concerned. Just ave a read of old TIMMEE'S last post - givin 'is dog a run this mornin' an 'e'll probly give the ferret a run tonite if 'e's lucky!
Still, long as you blokes keep signin up evry time they chuck out a handfull of chicken pellets, they keep a few more fer them selves next time round, jest to see how many more suckers jump in.
Seems like its only the pilots who can live cheaper - ya don't see too many of them fat@rse lawyers or acountants gettin their pay slashed just cause they live in Ozzie.
Bit ard to edumacate the sprogs on lifestyle tho', and a lot bl@@dy harder to pay orf a house morgage an retire on it.
Any of youse ever tried sellin that lifestyle to pay ya hospital bills?
Be seein' youse round.
They figger they're left with the rejects here in good ol' Ozzie, so why pay 'em the big bucks!
After all's said n done, the flyin' here is pretty piss easy so far as the weathers concerned. Just ave a read of old TIMMEE'S last post - givin 'is dog a run this mornin' an 'e'll probly give the ferret a run tonite if 'e's lucky!
Still, long as you blokes keep signin up evry time they chuck out a handfull of chicken pellets, they keep a few more fer them selves next time round, jest to see how many more suckers jump in.
Seems like its only the pilots who can live cheaper - ya don't see too many of them fat@rse lawyers or acountants gettin their pay slashed just cause they live in Ozzie.
Bit ard to edumacate the sprogs on lifestyle tho', and a lot bl@@dy harder to pay orf a house morgage an retire on it.
Any of youse ever tried sellin that lifestyle to pay ya hospital bills?
Be seein' youse round.
Oicur, its not the Thai's or Phillipino's the Qf pilots need beware, its the low cost Australian labour force 'just getting some jet experience' that pose a greater danger. Gnadenburg is spot on, those without qualifications and experience (ie the 10 year Qf f/o) in a rapidly changing evironment risk being left behind. Qf has clearly become simply a job, not a career, as evidenced by the departure of the more astute players.
Timmee, there are far more rewarding places to live & work offshore than the desert I can assure you. Perhaps you should increase your sample size before drawing conclusions, the results may surprise you. Reference the lifestyle issue, I went for a run in the foothills this morning, meeting a schoolmate for lunch (most of my schoolmates enjoy the higher offshore income as well) and off to look at Ferrari's this afternoon (Modena prices are starting to come down). I doubt I'll bump into any Qf/ Vb guys there though. A good lifestyle is not an Australian exclusive, Cheers,
Timmee, there are far more rewarding places to live & work offshore than the desert I can assure you. Perhaps you should increase your sample size before drawing conclusions, the results may surprise you. Reference the lifestyle issue, I went for a run in the foothills this morning, meeting a schoolmate for lunch (most of my schoolmates enjoy the higher offshore income as well) and off to look at Ferrari's this afternoon (Modena prices are starting to come down). I doubt I'll bump into any Qf/ Vb guys there though. A good lifestyle is not an Australian exclusive, Cheers,
Last edited by Karunch; 18th Mar 2004 at 02:31.
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Karunch........ great having a Ferrari but having both the long and challenging roads to drive it on are just as important.
Country roads are also great which are somewhat lacking where you are.
Ditto the racetrack where you can pay a few bucks and go mental without worrying about the cops.
Not only did I reference the desert but also 2 places in Asia, one of which I know for a fact you are familiar!!
Secondly these guys have all been there for over 10 years as opposed to yourself that have only been in Asia for 2 years if that.
I'll ask you again in 10 or so years what are your thoughts.
As for me.......I'm off for a leisurely drive old son!!
Country roads are also great which are somewhat lacking where you are.
Ditto the racetrack where you can pay a few bucks and go mental without worrying about the cops.
Not only did I reference the desert but also 2 places in Asia, one of which I know for a fact you are familiar!!
Secondly these guys have all been there for over 10 years as opposed to yourself that have only been in Asia for 2 years if that.
I'll ask you again in 10 or so years what are your thoughts.
As for me.......I'm off for a leisurely drive old son!!
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TIMMEEE as I said earlier CX do have bases in Oz which trade off so called lifestyle for income, but not many takers.
As for saying if expat lifestyle was such a great option Oz airlines would have no-one and have to employ from overseas? CX currently have more Ozzie pilots than any other nationality, and they are only the ones who were accepted. You don't just phone a company like CX or Emirates and say 'ok I'll take that job now thanks'. The recruitment files are full of Ozzies crying to get up here but these companys have the luxury of choosing from all over the world, and they do.
If you're happy with your lot, good for you, 'cause I'm also very happy with mine. Living outside my comfort zone has been very good for my personal development.
The above is not opinion but the facts as I know them and TIMMEEE I'm not interested in comparing who's better off, 'cause it sounds like we'd only ever tie.
As for saying if expat lifestyle was such a great option Oz airlines would have no-one and have to employ from overseas? CX currently have more Ozzie pilots than any other nationality, and they are only the ones who were accepted. You don't just phone a company like CX or Emirates and say 'ok I'll take that job now thanks'. The recruitment files are full of Ozzies crying to get up here but these companys have the luxury of choosing from all over the world, and they do.
If you're happy with your lot, good for you, 'cause I'm also very happy with mine. Living outside my comfort zone has been very good for my personal development.
The above is not opinion but the facts as I know them and TIMMEEE I'm not interested in comparing who's better off, 'cause it sounds like we'd only ever tie.
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The Messiah - very true.
The fact that there arent many takers emphasises their priority for money over lifestyle.
Would be great working for CX based in Oz and a great trade-off in my opinion.
Great for young guys doing a command and being based at foreign ports where they can experience not only the flying but broaden their horizons also.
Would have loved to have done a short stint in the US or UK.
Karunch - cheers old son.
Just conveying my opinion and mine only.Everyone is different and so too are their individual circumstances.
You made the right move for yourself and at the right time.
Very astute and great timing I might add.
I too hope you are retired in 10 years or so and sounds like a great plan.We should be so lucky.
As I mentioned in my post that my mates in Dubai,HK and Bahrain said all those years ago - they were only going to be there for 10 years max.That was 15 years ago!!
Some are sending their families home and they will probably follow in the near future as they are dedicated family men.
Horses for courses as the man said.
I just hope that the individuals leaving Oz for HK have made the right decision and that themselves and their respective families are both happy and successful.
The fact that there arent many takers emphasises their priority for money over lifestyle.
Would be great working for CX based in Oz and a great trade-off in my opinion.
Great for young guys doing a command and being based at foreign ports where they can experience not only the flying but broaden their horizons also.
Would have loved to have done a short stint in the US or UK.
Karunch - cheers old son.
Just conveying my opinion and mine only.Everyone is different and so too are their individual circumstances.
You made the right move for yourself and at the right time.
Very astute and great timing I might add.
I too hope you are retired in 10 years or so and sounds like a great plan.We should be so lucky.
As I mentioned in my post that my mates in Dubai,HK and Bahrain said all those years ago - they were only going to be there for 10 years max.That was 15 years ago!!
Some are sending their families home and they will probably follow in the near future as they are dedicated family men.
Horses for courses as the man said.
I just hope that the individuals leaving Oz for HK have made the right decision and that themselves and their respective families are both happy and successful.