Qantas FO's and SO's-Jetstar
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Qantas FO's and SO's-Jetstar
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Time for some action.
If, like me, you are sick of the double standards that are constantly applied in the way that management relates to you, then you must act.
If, like me, you realise that the association that is meant to represent you, hamstrung by the law though it may be, has well and truly dropped the ball on Jetstar to the detriment of the career you thought you had when you joined, then you must act.
If, like me, you realise that a direct fight over Jetstar is not going to happen, then you must act.
Qantas must be made aware of how you feel. Don't expect the association to take the lead in this, or even the captains you fly with, sympathetic though they may be.
You have been told that your entry into Jetstar would "pollute the culture" of that company. You were told that to your faces. That is the statement of arrogance.
People who failed the tests you passed, and others, are now going to slip into the command slot you have patiently waited for. Qantas can dress it up any way they want, but that is the fact.
Record profits, spiralling management bonuses...snouts in the trough the length of the management conga line. And you were told you would "pollute the culture" of the new company.
No Aipa official will ever say what I am about to say...
The Company needs to know exactly how you feel in the only way it will filter through... via the bottom line.
Some options are open to you.
Recency. Don't take any sectors, and if you do, don't record them.
Extensions. Do I have to spell it out?
Punctuality. Make sure you dot the I's and cross the t's of every departure.
Make no mistake, A good FO is an asset to his company. A p1ssed off FO, has the ability to get his point across.
No doubt the inhabitants of Waynes World will try a bit of intimidation on for size. Now is the time to be strong and stand up for yourselves. Only you can lead this fight. Sympathetic captains, once FO's themselves, will support you.
Take this post and email it to your mates. this is your fight. The more soldiers to the battle, the better.
Le Armee de Une?
Time for some action.
If, like me, you are sick of the double standards that are constantly applied in the way that management relates to you, then you must act.
If, like me, you realise that the association that is meant to represent you, hamstrung by the law though it may be, has well and truly dropped the ball on Jetstar to the detriment of the career you thought you had when you joined, then you must act.
If, like me, you realise that a direct fight over Jetstar is not going to happen, then you must act.
Qantas must be made aware of how you feel. Don't expect the association to take the lead in this, or even the captains you fly with, sympathetic though they may be.
You have been told that your entry into Jetstar would "pollute the culture" of that company. You were told that to your faces. That is the statement of arrogance.
People who failed the tests you passed, and others, are now going to slip into the command slot you have patiently waited for. Qantas can dress it up any way they want, but that is the fact.
Record profits, spiralling management bonuses...snouts in the trough the length of the management conga line. And you were told you would "pollute the culture" of the new company.
No Aipa official will ever say what I am about to say...
The Company needs to know exactly how you feel in the only way it will filter through... via the bottom line.
Some options are open to you.
Recency. Don't take any sectors, and if you do, don't record them.
Extensions. Do I have to spell it out?
Punctuality. Make sure you dot the I's and cross the t's of every departure.
Make no mistake, A good FO is an asset to his company. A p1ssed off FO, has the ability to get his point across.
No doubt the inhabitants of Waynes World will try a bit of intimidation on for size. Now is the time to be strong and stand up for yourselves. Only you can lead this fight. Sympathetic captains, once FO's themselves, will support you.
Take this post and email it to your mates. this is your fight. The more soldiers to the battle, the better.
Le Armee de Une?
Nunc est bibendum
AIPA urged us to read this. It's all been said before on PPRUNE. Here it is again for us all to dwell on.
Just thought I'd post that out of interest! 
It was taken from here.
Raising the Bar
By Capt. Mark A. McClain, Northwest Master Executive Council Chairman
Air Line Pilot, January 2004, p.9
The past 2 years have been a trying time for airline pilots and our profession. The economic recession that began before 9/11 opened a window of opportunity for airline managements to reduce the number of pilot jobs and to successfully drive many pilot groups into concessionary contracts.
Fortunately, the economic recovery is closing this window of opportunity.
Unfortunately, pleading a bad economy is not the only tactic management can use to erode our many years of successful collective bargaining.
One of managements’ favorite negotiating tactics, one that has been used since the birth of collective bargaining, is to "whipsaw" pilot groups against one another, seeking out the lowest bidder. E.L. Cord used it against Century pilots in the 1930s, and airline managements use it today.
Here at Northwest, management has tried to pit Northwest system pilot groups against each other by allocating jobs and aircraft to different airlines within the NWA family. Management tried to whipsaw Mesaba pilots against pilots at Northwest and Pinnacle (formerly Express Airlines I) during contract negotiations in the 1990s and is now trying to pit Pinnacle and other pilot groups against pilots of Mesaba during the Mesaba pilot negotiations. Indeed, "fee-for-departure carriers" in every airline brand are being forced to "bid" for continued or expanded codeshare opportunities.
If we ever allow ourselves to enter into bidding wars to gain management promises (which turn out to be empty), we undermine our own ability to negotiate increases elsewhere. Managements will continue trying to force pilots to underbid each other. That is happening, as I write, at carriers where pay is already far too low and working conditions are intolerable.
The only way we can combat these whipsawing tactics is to "hold the line" and uphold the integrity of our profession. Maintaining the highest standards is important for all of us, because a system in which we undercut each other takes us nowhere but down. Together, we have to use our collective resolve to help each other so that we don’t have any "lowest bidders." The integrity of the air travel system depends on experienced employees, not on the cheapest option available.
As a Northwest pilot, I believe that we must support the bargaining efforts of our affiliates to achieve the highest standards possible within their ranks, because the lower the bar is set, the farther we have the potential to fall. Too often at the bargaining table, management has told me that "pilots are willing to fly for less." This needs to end. We must look at the long term and stop the erosion in the quality of jobs in our profession.
The airline industry has changed. In the past, a professional pilot’s career would often start at a small air carrier where he or she would stay for a few years to get the experience necessary to move on to a larger carrier. My career followed this "typical" path. I began flying BE-18s and DC-3s at Skyway Airlines. After its bankruptcy, I flew 5 years at Britt Airways (now Continental Express), flying BE-99s, Metroliners, and Fairchild FH-227Cs. I was then hired by Republic, which merged with Northwest in 1986.
In today’s environment, this career progression is much more difficult to achieve. For many pilots, jobs at smaller carriers may well be career jobs. Many professional pilots who want to move to a larger carrier are finding that those opportunities do not exist and that they will spend a large portion of their career at smaller carriers. This is another reason why the bar needs to be raised.
This change in the airline industry propels us to rethink not only our career paths, but also those of pilots of other airlines. Flying opportunities should be allocated equitably throughout an airline family and that career progression should be maintained to the extent possible. We also need to enhance furlough protection for current members so an airline cannot furlough pilots from one carrier and then hire cheaper pilots at an affiliate.
We need to recognize each others’ contributions to a common system and maintain the highest standards for all pilots. Airline managements need to recognize a reasonable career path progression for pilots of affiliate carriers, and likewise affiliate carrier managements must recognize encroachment concerns pilots have of what has been historically large-carrier flying.
Managements have purposefully tried to create conflict among us to extract economic gain for themselves. This will continue unless we decide, as a collective whole, not to underbid our colleagues and to uphold the integrity of our profession. Capt. Dave Behncke and Century pilots fought this battle 70 years ago, and all pilots must continue to fight it today. The cyclical nature of our industry is not something we can control, but low-balling our fellow pilots is.
By Capt. Mark A. McClain, Northwest Master Executive Council Chairman
Air Line Pilot, January 2004, p.9
The past 2 years have been a trying time for airline pilots and our profession. The economic recession that began before 9/11 opened a window of opportunity for airline managements to reduce the number of pilot jobs and to successfully drive many pilot groups into concessionary contracts.
Fortunately, the economic recovery is closing this window of opportunity.
Unfortunately, pleading a bad economy is not the only tactic management can use to erode our many years of successful collective bargaining.
One of managements’ favorite negotiating tactics, one that has been used since the birth of collective bargaining, is to "whipsaw" pilot groups against one another, seeking out the lowest bidder. E.L. Cord used it against Century pilots in the 1930s, and airline managements use it today.
Here at Northwest, management has tried to pit Northwest system pilot groups against each other by allocating jobs and aircraft to different airlines within the NWA family. Management tried to whipsaw Mesaba pilots against pilots at Northwest and Pinnacle (formerly Express Airlines I) during contract negotiations in the 1990s and is now trying to pit Pinnacle and other pilot groups against pilots of Mesaba during the Mesaba pilot negotiations. Indeed, "fee-for-departure carriers" in every airline brand are being forced to "bid" for continued or expanded codeshare opportunities.
If we ever allow ourselves to enter into bidding wars to gain management promises (which turn out to be empty), we undermine our own ability to negotiate increases elsewhere. Managements will continue trying to force pilots to underbid each other. That is happening, as I write, at carriers where pay is already far too low and working conditions are intolerable.
The only way we can combat these whipsawing tactics is to "hold the line" and uphold the integrity of our profession. Maintaining the highest standards is important for all of us, because a system in which we undercut each other takes us nowhere but down. Together, we have to use our collective resolve to help each other so that we don’t have any "lowest bidders." The integrity of the air travel system depends on experienced employees, not on the cheapest option available.
As a Northwest pilot, I believe that we must support the bargaining efforts of our affiliates to achieve the highest standards possible within their ranks, because the lower the bar is set, the farther we have the potential to fall. Too often at the bargaining table, management has told me that "pilots are willing to fly for less." This needs to end. We must look at the long term and stop the erosion in the quality of jobs in our profession.
The airline industry has changed. In the past, a professional pilot’s career would often start at a small air carrier where he or she would stay for a few years to get the experience necessary to move on to a larger carrier. My career followed this "typical" path. I began flying BE-18s and DC-3s at Skyway Airlines. After its bankruptcy, I flew 5 years at Britt Airways (now Continental Express), flying BE-99s, Metroliners, and Fairchild FH-227Cs. I was then hired by Republic, which merged with Northwest in 1986.
In today’s environment, this career progression is much more difficult to achieve. For many pilots, jobs at smaller carriers may well be career jobs. Many professional pilots who want to move to a larger carrier are finding that those opportunities do not exist and that they will spend a large portion of their career at smaller carriers. This is another reason why the bar needs to be raised.
This change in the airline industry propels us to rethink not only our career paths, but also those of pilots of other airlines. Flying opportunities should be allocated equitably throughout an airline family and that career progression should be maintained to the extent possible. We also need to enhance furlough protection for current members so an airline cannot furlough pilots from one carrier and then hire cheaper pilots at an affiliate.
We need to recognize each others’ contributions to a common system and maintain the highest standards for all pilots. Airline managements need to recognize a reasonable career path progression for pilots of affiliate carriers, and likewise affiliate carrier managements must recognize encroachment concerns pilots have of what has been historically large-carrier flying.
Managements have purposefully tried to create conflict among us to extract economic gain for themselves. This will continue unless we decide, as a collective whole, not to underbid our colleagues and to uphold the integrity of our profession. Capt. Dave Behncke and Century pilots fought this battle 70 years ago, and all pilots must continue to fight it today. The cyclical nature of our industry is not something we can control, but low-balling our fellow pilots is.
It was taken from here.
Guest
Posts: n/a
A Union is just that!...."A Union". Un-sanctioned, lone calls to "Mutiny" or "Work to rule" outside the Association will find you in the Sh1t ! What you need now are cool heads. If things are not going in the direction you want "Get involved" to make change.
KEG Excellent post/reproduction, havent read that before.
2 Questions, hope someone can answer
1/ Does the Assoc (Mainline Qantas) have ANY kind of Scope clause in it's contract? (I think I already know the answer to this!)
2/When was the last time Mainline Qantas Pilots issued or carried out any Industrial Action and what was the Issue?
Thaxs
KEG Excellent post/reproduction, havent read that before.
2 Questions, hope someone can answer
1/ Does the Assoc (Mainline Qantas) have ANY kind of Scope clause in it's contract? (I think I already know the answer to this!)
2/When was the last time Mainline Qantas Pilots issued or carried out any Industrial Action and what was the Issue?
Thaxs
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1. N0
2. 1966
Tell that to the City-rail drivers.
Le Armee de Une
2. 1966
Un-sanctioned, lone calls to "Mutiny" or "Work to rule" outside the Association will find you in the Sh1t !
Le Armee de Une
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All good stuff from Cpt McClain.
Since AIPA wholeheartedly agree with this it begs the question as to why they previously blindsided the impulse people and now want to cuddle up to them?
Well, of course its a rhetorical question and it shows our hypocracy. If AIPA can pull this out of the fire it will be the greatest comeback since Lazarus.
Since AIPA wholeheartedly agree with this it begs the question as to why they previously blindsided the impulse people and now want to cuddle up to them?
Well, of course its a rhetorical question and it shows our hypocracy. If AIPA can pull this out of the fire it will be the greatest comeback since Lazarus.
RE: crap
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The only way we can combat these whipsawing tactics is to "hold the line" and uphold the integrity of our profession.
The situation is not irredeemable, but thanks to the inaction of the former group and the shameful actions of the latter, (yes, shameful, and the passage of time does not alter the fact one iota), younger pilots like yourselves are starting from a about twenty rungs lower down a very slippery ladder of career protection / progression.
Managements have purposefully tried to create conflict among us to extract economic gain for themselves. This will continue unless we decide, as a collective whole, not to underbid our colleagues and to uphold the integrity of our profession.
I hope it leads to another strike or 'mutiny' like the dispute. All the arrogant FO's get dumped, all the Captains eventually retire and the SO's and GA boys get their chance.
What’s that? 330 words which could be paraphrased in four - ‘I told you so.’
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I hope all you Impulse Pilots read Keg's article. You have collectively taken a gigantic dump in your own nest.
Arbey 8, it's a very great pity that no-one has taken a giant dump on you, mate. You deserve it.
Arbey 8, it's a very great pity that no-one has taken a giant dump on you, mate. You deserve it.
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QF pilots polluting the culture of Jetstar?? That would be the day!! The culture at Impulse speaks for itself, prostitutes, prostitutes and more.
Nice attempt at the Peet Conrad thread Thumpa, you only have a collective band of stems at VQ to get support - the rest of the industry sees you for what you guys really are.
Nice attempt at the Peet Conrad thread Thumpa, you only have a collective band of stems at VQ to get support - the rest of the industry sees you for what you guys really are.
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I'd be interested to hear from you DJ guys out there. What's your opinion? Do you think this won't effect you? Does VB management intend to cut your wages too in order to achieve a cost base similar to Jetstar?
Be very careful with your words Sonny. Yes, a lot of QF Regional Pilots would love the opportunity to fly for Jetstar. The reference to 'pollution' has me confused, could you please elaborate.
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Right,
A few salient points
Armee is spot on.......work to rule.
Drew R..., Oldmedow and the rest of the HR / IR anti-pilot cabal in QF think of pilots in terms of absolute contempt - we all should return the favours. QF is about ground gripping blunts who hate pilots now, the sooner we all realise it the better.
Second. The impulse pilots are scabs, now and forever end of story.........never forget it when you run into one of these bastards down the track in the near future.
Third. I personally have had a gutfull of whinging regional pilots on Qrewroom and this forum. If you believe you have been discriminated against, sue QF, go through selection or get a job with EK, Cathay or Dragonair but regardless, shut TF up and stop carrying on like 10 year old children
Here endeth the lesson.
PS
Keg - stop sucking up to the company mate - it will get you nowhere.
regards
FS
A few salient points
Armee is spot on.......work to rule.
Drew R..., Oldmedow and the rest of the HR / IR anti-pilot cabal in QF think of pilots in terms of absolute contempt - we all should return the favours. QF is about ground gripping blunts who hate pilots now, the sooner we all realise it the better.
Second. The impulse pilots are scabs, now and forever end of story.........never forget it when you run into one of these bastards down the track in the near future.
Third. I personally have had a gutfull of whinging regional pilots on Qrewroom and this forum. If you believe you have been discriminated against, sue QF, go through selection or get a job with EK, Cathay or Dragonair but regardless, shut TF up and stop carrying on like 10 year old children
Here endeth the lesson.
PS
Keg - stop sucking up to the company mate - it will get you nowhere.
regards
FS
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Pollution was how Dixon referred to the QANTAS pilots at the SGM.
I think he should use a mirror and see a big fat greedy pig rolling around in bonus's whilst he screws everyone else, ruins an airline through cost cutting and at the same time and maybe more importantly ruins a national icon too.
I think he should use a mirror and see a big fat greedy pig rolling around in bonus's whilst he screws everyone else, ruins an airline through cost cutting and at the same time and maybe more importantly ruins a national icon too.
