Qantas FO's and SO's-Jetstar
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Therein lies the problem, Keg & Bloo.
Was talking to another QF Cpt the other day. Telling me about a fella he knows in Impulse. Nice guy apparently, but had failed QF selection twice and was now a 717 Cpt. Still goes around calling himself a "Qantas" captain. OK, technically he is a "Qantaslink" captain, therefore "Qantas". But still offensive to a Qantas captain who has earned the right (as well as probably 15 years service, at least) to call himself that.
Why should he be given an automatic right to QF Mainline?
Definately this is a conundrum...
So then. How do we deal with people like this? How are they integrated?
IMHO, the QF regionals have a right to move up the chain, and they SHOULD be sponsored by AIPA. But I do have a problem with AIPA sponsoring the Impulse pilots group, who have technically "jumped" the que, and undermined the structure for their own selfish end.
Was talking to another QF Cpt the other day. Telling me about a fella he knows in Impulse. Nice guy apparently, but had failed QF selection twice and was now a 717 Cpt. Still goes around calling himself a "Qantas" captain. OK, technically he is a "Qantaslink" captain, therefore "Qantas". But still offensive to a Qantas captain who has earned the right (as well as probably 15 years service, at least) to call himself that.
Why should he be given an automatic right to QF Mainline?
Definately this is a conundrum...
So then. How do we deal with people like this? How are they integrated?
IMHO, the QF regionals have a right to move up the chain, and they SHOULD be sponsored by AIPA. But I do have a problem with AIPA sponsoring the Impulse pilots group, who have technically "jumped" the que, and undermined the structure for their own selfish end.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Well chappies, you will be happy to learn that your new (former AN 320) brothers were required to pass psych tests and have the required standard of physics etc. I remember one psych question;
"Would you select full reverse and max braking on a wet rwy?"
"Would you select full reverse and max braking on a wet rwy?"
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Solidarity - anyone...anyone...?
Could I please refocus peoples attention back to the article "Raising the Bar" in Keg's post.
A lot of people need to spit the dummies for good and focus their energies on maybe trying to unify the pilot group once more, for the benefit of everyone concerned.
A lot of people need to spit the dummies for good and focus their energies on maybe trying to unify the pilot group once more, for the benefit of everyone concerned.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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E.P. the good thing about you, is that your posts have consistenly set such a low standard that nobody gives a rats bottom about what you say now.
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If we actually had just the one employment standard for the entire QF 'group' then why not go with the one seniorority system? It would certainly ease the angst. The individual airlines can still pick whichever person they want but at least we know that EVERYONE has passed the same standard of entrance.
I don't know about new hires into Jetstar, but they will do at least a sim ride in Sydney
Their Check Capt. did his training last year.So you can see it's heading that way.
Then nobody can bitch about being better as the playing field becomes more level
Join Date: Dec 1998
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There's a number of people who failed the QF hoop jumping exercise that are flying heavy jets for Cathay, Emrats and a number of other reputable airlines. They seem to be doing alright.
The Chief in Charge of recruitment talks about the number of Group Capts, F18 drivers, ex Ansett drivers and other similarly qualified pilots who fail command, conversion etc and wrings his hands at having to pick up the "wreckage".
Maybe rather than focussing on the recruitment "system" the training system should be looked at.
IMO mainline drivers are probably no better or worse than most other airline pilots.
Agree with Keg on the other stuff.
The Chief in Charge of recruitment talks about the number of Group Capts, F18 drivers, ex Ansett drivers and other similarly qualified pilots who fail command, conversion etc and wrings his hands at having to pick up the "wreckage".
Maybe rather than focussing on the recruitment "system" the training system should be looked at.
IMO mainline drivers are probably no better or worse than most other airline pilots.
Agree with Keg on the other stuff.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Although I joined in the year that it was instigated, I recall hearing many of the same theories and arguments being put forward when all the Ansett subsids (A.N.S.W., MMA & ASA) were all amalgamated with the mainline.
There were pilots in the subsids who had failed to gain entrance into Ansett, who were now going to be put ahead of mainline pilots.
Once the SOP's were all standardised, there were a few who couldn't make it.
From an outsiders viewpoint, you're a disparate group at the moment - too busy fighting and name-calling each other, as ALL of your careers are being shot to tatters.
I have no personal interest in seeing this go one way or the other, but I find it incredible that YOU can't see that all of the smoke you're creating with the friction between the various groups, is providing a great cover for those hard at work against ALL of you.
Remember the story of the father, his sons, and the sticks of wood. Because Oldmeadow & Co surely do!
There were pilots in the subsids who had failed to gain entrance into Ansett, who were now going to be put ahead of mainline pilots.
Once the SOP's were all standardised, there were a few who couldn't make it.
From an outsiders viewpoint, you're a disparate group at the moment - too busy fighting and name-calling each other, as ALL of your careers are being shot to tatters.
I have no personal interest in seeing this go one way or the other, but I find it incredible that YOU can't see that all of the smoke you're creating with the friction between the various groups, is providing a great cover for those hard at work against ALL of you.
Remember the story of the father, his sons, and the sticks of wood. Because Oldmeadow & Co surely do!
Join Date: Jul 2002
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And while every one here whinges and complains looking over the fence at others backyards, the lawn grows long in theirs.
Dear oh dear, you people need to take hollidays.
Dear oh dear, you people need to take hollidays.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Bonvol, I'd probably be the last person to endorse the QF recruitment or Trg systems, however sometimes, just sometimes they DO get it right. Percentage basis? Wouldn't have a clue.
But even if one of those people in Impulse who have an easier road into QF mainline get in following a failure in the original recruitment process, then a serious injustice has occurred.
The guys in the QF regionals who are battling away DO have a right to be seriously p1ssed off.
What is happenning right now is WRONG!
The cry is "stand together". True, AIPA has not fostered this in the past but, my question now is: How can you stand together when groups such as the IPG come along and willingly undercut everyone, and collectively destroy years of negotiations. How?
But even if one of those people in Impulse who have an easier road into QF mainline get in following a failure in the original recruitment process, then a serious injustice has occurred.
The guys in the QF regionals who are battling away DO have a right to be seriously p1ssed off.
What is happenning right now is WRONG!
The cry is "stand together". True, AIPA has not fostered this in the past but, my question now is: How can you stand together when groups such as the IPG come along and willingly undercut everyone, and collectively destroy years of negotiations. How?
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Blistering "High standard" come back there Boo-hoo, simply blistering!! 
When they asked you during the QF interview; "Would you describe yourself as 'picayune'?" Why did you excitingly say "yes"?
Last edited by E.P.; 7th Mar 2004 at 09:43.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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QANTAS and Training? What Training? The two don't belong in the same sentence!
In QANTAS, if you have it in the book and read it, then you should be able to do it, no if's - no buts. Thats QANTAS Training in a nutshell.
Oh wait a minute they renamed all the Check Captains to Training Captains, so there must be a Training Department!!!!!!
Sad, but very true.
In QANTAS, if you have it in the book and read it, then you should be able to do it, no if's - no buts. Thats QANTAS Training in a nutshell.
Oh wait a minute they renamed all the Check Captains to Training Captains, so there must be a Training Department!!!!!!
Sad, but very true.
Hey Proplever,
Legitimate question, how long have QF relied on the current psychometric evaluation method?
I ask because based on your view of people who where unable to successfully negotiate that step as being somewhat unworthy, (compared to those bright boys and girls that did), would you not then consider a current 20 year+ QF captain who may not have undertaken a similar selection procedure as equally unworthy?
If this mode of selection has indeed been around since day 1, then feel free to consider my question superfluous.
Legitimate question, how long have QF relied on the current psychometric evaluation method?
I ask because based on your view of people who where unable to successfully negotiate that step as being somewhat unworthy, (compared to those bright boys and girls that did), would you not then consider a current 20 year+ QF captain who may not have undertaken a similar selection procedure as equally unworthy?
If this mode of selection has indeed been around since day 1, then feel free to consider my question superfluous.
Join Date: Dec 1998
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Blueloo is spot on about the "training".
Have a read of the ATSB report on the Ansett 747 bingle and you will see the difference in training methodologies.
Ansett dedicated a training captain to their trainees whereas QF move you from pillar to post and back again. It's a wonder anyone gets through really.
Have a read of the ATSB report on the Ansett 747 bingle and you will see the difference in training methodologies.
Ansett dedicated a training captain to their trainees whereas QF move you from pillar to post and back again. It's a wonder anyone gets through really.
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It has been well known throughout the industry for at least the last 20 yrs that QF were known for their poor selection of crew. In most cases (some exceptions) they would take the knuckleheads of the industry and the good blokes would go to AN, EW, TAA etc.
Has the new selection proceedure changed things, or is QF still employing those types ?
Has the new selection proceedure changed things, or is QF still employing those types ?
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Yes , UR2, you are totally correct. I am a product of that poor crew selection process and I freely acknowledge that I am a knucklehead; poorly suited to my current situation.
I can only hope to one day emulate the standards of the TAA, AN and EW pilots that I now fly alongside of, even though they are junior to me, because as you, with such trenchant insight point out, the industry knows that anyone recruited over the last 20 years doesn't deserve to be here.
I believe also that the current procedure still weed out the "good blokes"(and sheilas!) as you call them, so be not concerned that your ignorant generalisations and bias's are in any danger of being swept away.
I humbly remain, hoping to be not found out...
TCOB....
I can only hope to one day emulate the standards of the TAA, AN and EW pilots that I now fly alongside of, even though they are junior to me, because as you, with such trenchant insight point out, the industry knows that anyone recruited over the last 20 years doesn't deserve to be here.
I believe also that the current procedure still weed out the "good blokes"(and sheilas!) as you call them, so be not concerned that your ignorant generalisations and bias's are in any danger of being swept away.
I humbly remain, hoping to be not found out...
TCOB....
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"It has been well known throughout the industry for at least the last...." 13 years until their demise, AN, EW, TAA etc. took ANYONE who could walk.
Those airlines no longer exist - QANTAS does (for the time being).
Of the 5 airlines I have worked for, Ansett was the ONLY one that used this system, bonvol.
Now I must admit that I was always fortunate to be allocated a T.C. who knew how to impart his knowledge, and wiith whom I enjoyed flying, being quizzed and tutored post flight, and then the socialising.
The Ansett I flew with had a terriffic selection process for their T.C.s, and the odd one who slipped through was usually culled out after it became evident he wasn't suited to the position.
Otoh, the system of flying with a different T.C. also seems to have its advantage, however I don't believe there is the advantage of "continuity" that trainees received under Ansett's system. But they work anyway.
Those airlines no longer exist - QANTAS does (for the time being).
Ansett dedicated a training captain to their trainees whereas QF move you from pillar to post and back again. It's a wonder anyone gets through really.
Now I must admit that I was always fortunate to be allocated a T.C. who knew how to impart his knowledge, and wiith whom I enjoyed flying, being quizzed and tutored post flight, and then the socialising.
The Ansett I flew with had a terriffic selection process for their T.C.s, and the odd one who slipped through was usually culled out after it became evident he wasn't suited to the position.
Otoh, the system of flying with a different T.C. also seems to have its advantage, however I don't believe there is the advantage of "continuity" that trainees received under Ansett's system. But they work anyway.
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I too am a knucklehead, and my knuckles also scrape along the ground. It is only a matter of time before management notices the blisters and scratches on the top of my hands and realises the error of their employment and recruitment policy. Maybe I should fire myself. 
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34R ,Your question is definatly not superfluous in this topic.
There was no requirement 20 years ago to have Grade 12 Maths,Physics to join Qantas,nor was there any requirement to pay your own way to Sydney,yet alone pay for your own testing
I know if you did the rounds of the senior QF Captains (and they answered honestly) that you'll find some who don't have these subjects.
20 years ago the only outfit to require senior Maths and Physics was TAA,but of course if you came in from regionals that were taken over like Air Queensland then that didn't matter.
Just for interest I have flown the all singing all dancing aircraft and now I'm back to a more regional type of aircraft...no prizes for guessing which one is the more demanding!.
There was no requirement 20 years ago to have Grade 12 Maths,Physics to join Qantas,nor was there any requirement to pay your own way to Sydney,yet alone pay for your own testing
I know if you did the rounds of the senior QF Captains (and they answered honestly) that you'll find some who don't have these subjects.
20 years ago the only outfit to require senior Maths and Physics was TAA,but of course if you came in from regionals that were taken over like Air Queensland then that didn't matter.
Just for interest I have flown the all singing all dancing aircraft and now I'm back to a more regional type of aircraft...no prizes for guessing which one is the more demanding!.
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Don’t forget the pilots that joined Australian in '89 they did not even have to have a passport, let alone pass a psychology test and they are in Qantas or am I mistaken....