NZ 101 missed approach - Thai 747 incroaching on 16? (13/1/04 08:20)
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NZ 101 missed approach - Thai 747 incroaching on 16? (13/1/04 08:20)
Was watching approaches into 16 this morning on high ground about 600m from threshold, had execlent views of approach and stright down the runway. Uneventfull until at about 8:20 am when an Air NZ 767 (NZ101?) which could not have been more than 2km (probably only 1) from landing set power, stowed the gear shot through the centerline and banked right to have another go. When I saw the wheels go up I looked back to the runway and there was a Thai 747 lined up and ready to go.
Questions for those in the know:
Who mucked up here, ATC? Thai pilots? NZ pilots?
Would the captain have made an announcment, must have rattled a few PAX, It was quite low.
Is is standard proceedure to continue over the runway and get routed back around, I guess it makes sense.
Will someone be written up for this (or at least invited to sit down for a cuppa to discuss it)
Why go around so late, must have been able to see the jumbo from miles away.
Anyway it went round got into line came back and the pilot greased the landing. Saw some dodgy ones mind (KE747 won that catagory) seemed to be a bit of a cross wind.
Questions for those in the know:
Who mucked up here, ATC? Thai pilots? NZ pilots?
Would the captain have made an announcment, must have rattled a few PAX, It was quite low.
Is is standard proceedure to continue over the runway and get routed back around, I guess it makes sense.
Will someone be written up for this (or at least invited to sit down for a cuppa to discuss it)
Why go around so late, must have been able to see the jumbo from miles away.
Anyway it went round got into line came back and the pilot greased the landing. Saw some dodgy ones mind (KE747 won that catagory) seemed to be a bit of a cross wind.
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I'll give it a go having been there once or twice!?
Who mucked up here, ATC? Thai pilots? NZ pilots?
The Thai bloke was probably slow and ATC thought he'd be faster. Simple as that.
Would the captain have made an announcement, must have rattled a few PAX, It was quite low.
Yes, undoubtedly. The a/c are perfectly capable of go-arounds from touchdown [and in Cat3, for QF, from 20ft, as a matter of routine in training]; pax don't see this and think some potential disaster has occurred.
Indeed, I blew my cool with a couple of pax after a 'runway occupied' go-around [at SIN, I might add; LHR, SFO, JFK, SYD, MEL, LAX wouldn't have raised an eyebrow!!
], when speaking to them the next night they told me they'd nearly hit another aircraft on the runway the previous day! They said the Capt had told them that and I KNOW what I said; fact and perception are amazing!!
Is is standard proceedure to continue over the runway and get routed back around, I guess it makes sense.
Yes, basically. There are often turning go-arounds as well.
Will someone be written up for this (or at least invited to sit down for a cuppa to discuss it)
No. No standards were breached [that's why he went around.]
Why go around so late, must have been able to see the jumbo from miles away.
And was watching him very carefully no doubt! Thai could have rolled at any time and it may have worked. There are laid down standards for how far up the runway/airborne another a/c must be before you may be cleared to land [except in the US]; both the ANZ Capt and the ATCO would have been watching. Either can initiate a go-around. I've been in both situations.
Hope that helps.
G'day
Who mucked up here, ATC? Thai pilots? NZ pilots?
The Thai bloke was probably slow and ATC thought he'd be faster. Simple as that.
Would the captain have made an announcement, must have rattled a few PAX, It was quite low.
Yes, undoubtedly. The a/c are perfectly capable of go-arounds from touchdown [and in Cat3, for QF, from 20ft, as a matter of routine in training]; pax don't see this and think some potential disaster has occurred.
Indeed, I blew my cool with a couple of pax after a 'runway occupied' go-around [at SIN, I might add; LHR, SFO, JFK, SYD, MEL, LAX wouldn't have raised an eyebrow!!
], when speaking to them the next night they told me they'd nearly hit another aircraft on the runway the previous day! They said the Capt had told them that and I KNOW what I said; fact and perception are amazing!!Is is standard proceedure to continue over the runway and get routed back around, I guess it makes sense.
Yes, basically. There are often turning go-arounds as well.
Will someone be written up for this (or at least invited to sit down for a cuppa to discuss it)
No. No standards were breached [that's why he went around.]
Why go around so late, must have been able to see the jumbo from miles away.
And was watching him very carefully no doubt! Thai could have rolled at any time and it may have worked. There are laid down standards for how far up the runway/airborne another a/c must be before you may be cleared to land [except in the US]; both the ANZ Capt and the ATCO would have been watching. Either can initiate a go-around. I've been in both situations.
Hope that helps.
G'day
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Why did someone have to "muck up"?
Thai lines up, "clear for take-off". A warning light, or a call from the cabin "Capt wait, pax walking around" etc. Thai sits on the runway for a minute or 2, ANZ gets to go around. "Cancel take-off clearance. ANZ, go around." No big deal. It's a dynamic business.
Thai lines up, "clear for take-off". A warning light, or a call from the cabin "Capt wait, pax walking around" etc. Thai sits on the runway for a minute or 2, ANZ gets to go around. "Cancel take-off clearance. ANZ, go around." No big deal. It's a dynamic business.
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Not the dreaded we climbed vertically an' I thought I was gonna die manoeuvre!!! 
Seriously though RTFI as the others have said, a go around doesn't have to be a stuff up, it could be, but it could also be any number of other reasons, such as delays in coordination of the Thai's departure clearance, an unidentified VFR transiting the zone with a u/s transponder, a previous landing aircraft taking longer to depart the runway than expected. And ......
Seriously though RTFI as the others have said, a go around doesn't have to be a stuff up, it could be, but it could also be any number of other reasons, such as delays in coordination of the Thai's departure clearance, an unidentified VFR transiting the zone with a u/s transponder, a previous landing aircraft taking longer to depart the runway than expected. And ......
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I want to ask a question about all this 'I thought I was going to die' stuff. I recall being on a United 767 that did a go round from about 20 ft. twice in a thick Glasgow fog (when they still served Glasgow). Not a single passenger so much as raised an eyebrow, even when the captain gave a detailed briefing about Cat 3 minima after the first missed approach and said he was going to try again, and then missed again (he made it the third time).
I had a similar experience with an NZ 737 at Wellington due windshear.
What I want to know is, what is the normal experience of you professionals - loads of passengers who are not disconcerted at all, or loads of passengers who get excited?
I had a similar experience with an NZ 737 at Wellington due windshear.
What I want to know is, what is the normal experience of you professionals - loads of passengers who are not disconcerted at all, or loads of passengers who get excited?
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Seriously though RTFI as the others have said, a go around doesn't have to be a stuff up, it could be, but it could also be any number of other reasons, such as delays in coordination of the Thai's departure clearance, an unidentified VFR transiting the zone with a u/s transponder, a previous landing aircraft taking longer to depart the runway than expected. And ......
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Rongotai
From the feedback I get mast pax are prety relaxed about a missed approach. There are always a few who go white and katatonic though.
Mrs C is petrified of flying, as are some of her friends, they're amongst the I was gonna die brigade.
FWIW I've started including a brief speil on the possibilities of a missed approach in my here we are PA, if the weather is such that I think there's a high probability of going around. Mrs C advises me that it's not knowing what and why, that causes much of her fear.
Mrs C is petrified of flying, as are some of her friends, they're amongst the I was gonna die brigade.
FWIW I've started including a brief speil on the possibilities of a missed approach in my here we are PA, if the weather is such that I think there's a high probability of going around. Mrs C advises me that it's not knowing what and why, that causes much of her fear.
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CC
What a great idea. My Aunt and Mother were recently passengers an an aircraft that performed a go around at Cairns due wx. They tell me they were packing their dacks as they had absolutely no idea what was going on. The captain did come on as they were repositioning but I am sure that had they known of any possible problems a quick explanation from the only persons who do know what is going on ie the Flight Deck ppl, prior would have maybe helped.
What a great idea. My Aunt and Mother were recently passengers an an aircraft that performed a go around at Cairns due wx. They tell me they were packing their dacks as they had absolutely no idea what was going on. The captain did come on as they were repositioning but I am sure that had they known of any possible problems a quick explanation from the only persons who do know what is going on ie the Flight Deck ppl, prior would have maybe helped.
