Jetstar crewing.. Honest questions
Thread Starter
Jetstar crewing.. Honest questions
OK, I'll be up front and say I'm a QF mainline guy, and not a regular around here.
I've been concerned about the LCC and the 'options' it gives/doesn't give all pilot groups. I've heard the AIPA position, the QF position, and have tried to read between the lines of both. Neither have inspired me much. I've heard the various arguments re pilot efficiency, pay convergence, and the de-valuation of the piloting profession: generally emotive and therefore, I find, less convincing than just the facts.
Firstly, can I summarise what I think has occurred?
a. Impulse pilots have generally been happy with their lot re route structure, rostering, basing and pay,
b. Impulse pilots felt a job security threat coming if QF did not extend the leases on the 717s,
b. to get a 'foot in the door', they have agreed to fly the LCC A320s for the same pay as 717s, and
d. at some point in the past, they have genuinely tried to be represented by AIPA, and been genuinely told to p**s off.
Rumour has it that Impulse pilots have 'unanimously' supported the recent developments. AIPA is saying that it 'definitely has a seat at the table'. Now, I can understand pilots being keen to preserve their job security... no complaints from me there. But I have the following questions for anyone, particularly a real Impulse driver, prepared to enlighten me.
1. Did Impulse pilots really feel excluded from all chance of benefitting from QF expansion without agreeing to these conditions?
2. Was the prospect of offering to do the job for Virgin pay-rates considered (ie QF-10% vice QF-30%)?
3. IF Impulse had been wound up, did Impulse pilots feel that they couldn't ever get a job in a different wholly-owned-fast-growing subsidiary (eg Jetstar?)?
4. Is there a (Virgin-like) expectation that 'if we help them get it up-n-running, they'll look after us with pay parity in a couple of years'?
It won't be a revelation to some, but I feel that AIPA and the I.P.G have been played to a tee by people with vested interests in bonuses achieved through making a misrepresentaition believable. I think most AIPA members are frustrated that, despite all the QF hype about how Australian Airlines and the agreements reached were a complete success, it has counted for nought this time around.
No, I'm NOT angry at Impulse folks. But, as no doubt AIPA has in the past, is it possible you have been scare-mongered into a deal you'll come to resent to some degree some day?
Is there any Impulse person out there prepared to explain their position. Sincerely, thanks.
I've been concerned about the LCC and the 'options' it gives/doesn't give all pilot groups. I've heard the AIPA position, the QF position, and have tried to read between the lines of both. Neither have inspired me much. I've heard the various arguments re pilot efficiency, pay convergence, and the de-valuation of the piloting profession: generally emotive and therefore, I find, less convincing than just the facts.
Firstly, can I summarise what I think has occurred?
a. Impulse pilots have generally been happy with their lot re route structure, rostering, basing and pay,
b. Impulse pilots felt a job security threat coming if QF did not extend the leases on the 717s,
b. to get a 'foot in the door', they have agreed to fly the LCC A320s for the same pay as 717s, and
d. at some point in the past, they have genuinely tried to be represented by AIPA, and been genuinely told to p**s off.
Rumour has it that Impulse pilots have 'unanimously' supported the recent developments. AIPA is saying that it 'definitely has a seat at the table'. Now, I can understand pilots being keen to preserve their job security... no complaints from me there. But I have the following questions for anyone, particularly a real Impulse driver, prepared to enlighten me.
1. Did Impulse pilots really feel excluded from all chance of benefitting from QF expansion without agreeing to these conditions?
2. Was the prospect of offering to do the job for Virgin pay-rates considered (ie QF-10% vice QF-30%)?
3. IF Impulse had been wound up, did Impulse pilots feel that they couldn't ever get a job in a different wholly-owned-fast-growing subsidiary (eg Jetstar?)?
4. Is there a (Virgin-like) expectation that 'if we help them get it up-n-running, they'll look after us with pay parity in a couple of years'?
It won't be a revelation to some, but I feel that AIPA and the I.P.G have been played to a tee by people with vested interests in bonuses achieved through making a misrepresentaition believable. I think most AIPA members are frustrated that, despite all the QF hype about how Australian Airlines and the agreements reached were a complete success, it has counted for nought this time around.
No, I'm NOT angry at Impulse folks. But, as no doubt AIPA has in the past, is it possible you have been scare-mongered into a deal you'll come to resent to some degree some day?
Is there any Impulse person out there prepared to explain their position. Sincerely, thanks.
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Jetsbest a good post. I think until such time as ALL professional pilots in this country join the SAME organisation and have the intestinal fortitude to guts it out with these aggressive management initiatives, we are destined to a bleak future. Having management pilots in the top end of a organisation for the rank and file is farcical. Hopefully the Impulse lads have not been muzzled from comment.
A good post, particularly with reference to the vested interests involved. Definately worth consideration by pilots on both sides of the fence. I too feel, the Impulse guys can achieve a better outcome for themselves ( and in the long term everyone) if they are prepared carefully look at all the factors involved when making decisions.
As stated by Sperm Bank, we face a bleak future without some co-operation between each other.
As stated by Sperm Bank, we face a bleak future without some co-operation between each other.
Jetsbest - a good post but point D of your summary is incorrect. After QF bought Impulse the then AIPA president addressed Impulse pilots to assure them of support and offered suggestions as to how they could improve their industrial situation (Gerry would have sacked them if they had tried to join a union). Some legal and administrative support was also provided by the AIPA office staff. They did form the I.P.G but to my knowledge they never approached AIPA about being covered by AIPA.
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Jet best- good post mate. AIPA has been fairly involved, but in the backround. I think from what I can gather, up front representation was, and is, a hot political subject that was never sorted out.
To AIPA s credit, the current president seems to be a realy good bloke who has inherited a very difficult situation.
To AIPA s credit, the current president seems to be a realy good bloke who has inherited a very difficult situation.
Thread Starter
Skyhawk, I think you'll find that the Ansett A320 sim building is already conveniently located just off Tullamarine Airport, and is available for very attractive rental rates!
Skyhawk XP
Jetstar will require an A320 sim as an A330 will not cover the endorsement and on going training/renewal. Whether they get their own or use someone else’s will depend on availability and costing it out. I would suggest that when they eventually get 23 aircraft they will need their own sim.
Jetstar will require an A320 sim as an A330 will not cover the endorsement and on going training/renewal. Whether they get their own or use someone else’s will depend on availability and costing it out. I would suggest that when they eventually get 23 aircraft they will need their own sim.
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LPG & AIPA
JetsBest
HISTORY:
When QF acquired Impulse I with another TC from the Pulse had a meeting with CM in his apartment next to South Bank.
We asked him if we could join AIPA.
He said "not possible at this stage"
We went to meet the AIPA pres to work with QF, not against them.
We also had a few discussions with the AFAP but to align with them was to give us no say within the QF group.
So the IPG was formed.
HISTORY:
When QF acquired Impulse I with another TC from the Pulse had a meeting with CM in his apartment next to South Bank.
We asked him if we could join AIPA.
He said "not possible at this stage"
We went to meet the AIPA pres to work with QF, not against them.
We also had a few discussions with the AFAP but to align with them was to give us no say within the QF group.
So the IPG was formed.
Thread Starter
SKyhawk, thanks...that answers that then. D'oh.
Le Pilot, thanks too. It's a shame that the chance to revisit that meeting and pursue it more vigourously was missed by each group. 20/20 hindsight I guess. Good luck with your arrangements if you're still a 'pulser'... would you care to comment on my points 1-4?
Le Pilot, thanks too. It's a shame that the chance to revisit that meeting and pursue it more vigourously was missed by each group. 20/20 hindsight I guess. Good luck with your arrangements if you're still a 'pulser'... would you care to comment on my points 1-4?
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Can't really help with your questions.. Left the Pulse 2 yrs ago but have regular contact with a few.
The current IPG is made up of mostly the original B1900 blokes who are now Capts on the B717.
They felt that their current wicket was pretty good, why dig it up?
I do feel that AIPA could have been more pro-active when the Pulse was consumed.
AIPA should have found a way to bring the Pulse pilots into the fold as requested.
The current IPG is made up of mostly the original B1900 blokes who are now Capts on the B717.
They felt that their current wicket was pretty good, why dig it up?
I do feel that AIPA could have been more pro-active when the Pulse was consumed.
AIPA should have found a way to bring the Pulse pilots into the fold as requested.
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I wonder if the Airbus deal of the century includes an A320 sim or access to one.
With a common fleet - maybe QF/Jetstar and AirNZ can at least 'share' a sim without the ACCC getting too upset!.
With a common fleet - maybe QF/Jetstar and AirNZ can at least 'share' a sim without the ACCC getting too upset!.
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The Sim is really a mute point.
They could use the Air NZ sim if Airbus wont come to the party and supply a sim to Oz.
The question I'm keen to ask is why did Impulse offer to fly these aircraft for lower rates ($120,000 I believe) compared with Virgin Blue who pay their Captains $150,000+ !!!
Even VB think their pilots are worth more than the K120 Impulse has offered in order to prostitute themselves and pilots in general.
Bet your gonads these guys (apart from a few management pilots) will have to pay for their own endorsement!!
They could use the Air NZ sim if Airbus wont come to the party and supply a sim to Oz.
The question I'm keen to ask is why did Impulse offer to fly these aircraft for lower rates ($120,000 I believe) compared with Virgin Blue who pay their Captains $150,000+ !!!
Even VB think their pilots are worth more than the K120 Impulse has offered in order to prostitute themselves and pilots in general.
Bet your gonads these guys (apart from a few management pilots) will have to pay for their own endorsement!!
Bottums Up
The version I heard from a friend, who heard it from his Impulse friend, is $150k, not the $120k as touted.
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
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Rich-Fine-Green "....maybe QF/Jetstar and AirNZ can at least 'share' a sim ..."
And why not share Engineering too - fly the Airbus across the dutch for the heavy maint....what a smart move....oh but THEY do that. No spare capacity to do other work whilst that is continueing. How about Geoffs old mate (and business partner at the old Ansett Eng Base) Chris at Patricks? They could use JetCare seeing as they don't do much for DJ these days..
And why not share Engineering too - fly the Airbus across the dutch for the heavy maint....what a smart move....oh but THEY do that. No spare capacity to do other work whilst that is continueing. How about Geoffs old mate (and business partner at the old Ansett Eng Base) Chris at Patricks? They could use JetCare seeing as they don't do much for DJ these days..
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Beer can dreaming. I think you will find that the base rate is about 120K. However, the overtime deal is quite good. Average will be between 150 to 160 K.
Now thats not to bad is it. I have never come across a hooker that earns that much. By the way the average wage in Australia is close to 32k per year.
Who ever said pilots were whingers?
Like the paint scheme!! Cheers DM.
Now thats not to bad is it. I have never come across a hooker that earns that much. By the way the average wage in Australia is close to 32k per year.
Who ever said pilots were whingers?
Like the paint scheme!! Cheers DM.