250 kts - You seem to be saying we should keep our powder dry for the bigger issue; PPP anyone? Maybe if we hadn't been such a soft touch then we wouldn't be facing this situation now.

PS And maybe our pension scheme would have remained untouched!

Not at all. I just think the negotiating process need to be allowed some time to come to a logical end. One side walking out does not mean that negotiations have completely broken down.

Do you really think there will be an overwhelming walk out over 1% or 2% or so around Christmas??

Should there ever be a need for industrial action then it has to be something that will be guaranteed to get at least 80% out of the door. Anything less than that and management have us just where they want us.

Remember there is a voluntary scheme that people can always decide not to participate in to let management know their feelings.

PCS this week, on behalf of the ATSAs, were offered 1.5% on basic pay only - and from 1st April 2011.

PCS have therefore walked out of negotiations with a further meeting not planned until 10th December or thereabouts.

PCS offered 1.5% ?
Surely these are Joint negotiations through the NTUS. Or have management already managed divide the two sides, ATCO'S and others :eek:

I'm only aware of the PCS side of things at the moment, I didn't want to comment about the ATCO TU side until I knew the facts. But one would presume NTUS is still "Working Together".

It's a completely joint offer, rejected by the joint TU side... It's just that PCS seem to be more active in their communication of it.

I can see this offer going to ballot with a recommendation to reject. I'll certainly reject another pay cut... but I really don't see a mass walk-out happening.

But, the people who will make the most noise about not being paid enough will never compromise more reddies in their back pockets will they? :ok:

There is no need to go on strike and lose money.

NATS are driving through huge change very quickly and fairly smoothly using Working Together. NATS' profit are directly linked to the efficiencies Working Together has brought the company.

Look at the problems the Airline Group have in their own companies trying to bring in staffing efficiencies.

If they don't give us a pay rise at least equal to inflation then we should just ballot to cease Working Together completely.

Quid pro quo.

I'm no fan of the WT stuff... but that wont happen unless a motion goes through conference. Look at what BA did to the TU when they didn't dot all the i's and cross all the t's in their balloting process....

I don't want to see strikes... To me the best and easiest way to force management's hand is work to rule. Yes, that would mean no AAVAs.

and oh how we laughed when the ATCOs quickly decided they could do without the ATCAs.
Fred Karno couldn't have done it better.

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose (There's a hint in there}

They'll be absolutely cra**ing themselves over that one then.

Pretty naive I would suggest if you are really serious about a rise in excess of 5% ie RPI+

Me, Me, Me is correct in that a good start would be no one doing any voluntary extra duties. Remember they really need people to do them if iFACTS and EFD are to be introduced successfully next year.

Just a para from a longer article I have just found and posted on the NATS for sale forum....

At the same time, Deakin hopes to take the opportunity to double the work force's shareholding to 10% to better engage the 5,000 workers and ensure their interests are more closely aligned with the company's goals. Even though 80% to 90% of its employees are unionized, NATS hasn't suffered industrial action since 1981.

250 kts, I think iFacts is writing its own course now and nothing they say or do on the 4th floor can alter that much. If it doesn't work then we can't use it. :ouch:

Me Me Me Me:
I haven't done any for years and will not do any no matter how much the money would come in handy. I KNOW there are some that simply will not give up AAVA's no matter what. Totally not what I like but that is their own prerogative. :ugh:

But if people who have committed to the local deal and have done their bit by volunteering the days, volunteered no more then it would be in trouble I suspect.

It's a bit naive to talk about refusing to volunteer for extra duties. From my experience nobody truly volunteers, as in going to management and saying 'Please Boss, the MATS pt 2 needs rewriting, I'd love to do it'.

What happens is that management asks you to rewrite the MATS Pt 2, usually with a sweetener like 'You're the only one I can rely on', or 'It will give you a broader insight into ATC management'. Refusing such a request is not simply refusing to volunteer - you are effectively saying 'Nob off', and you will probably find that EG's and days off suddenly disappear.

Never forget that management, however inept, always has the upper hand.

radarman,

I'm specifically talking about AAVAs.

Without them NATS will really struggle to introduce the changes they have promised next year.

Remember this thread is about Pay. There are options to a ballot that was suggested recently.

Fish
For sweetener read bung and, 'I'm an ATCO, look free cash I'll have some of that'.

Our pay negotiations and any clout we once had are grossly undermined by a greedy, selfish, divided and apathetic workforce.

And I mean greedy in the sense of reluctance to work to rule, and ready acceptance of company bribes to sign terms and conditions away.

I'm expecting our eventual deal to be another shafting to be honest.

Talk about NATS dividing the workforce....just heard today plans afoot to reduce ATSA pay by up to 30%!!!!!!!

ATSA pay reduction, criminal. Allegedly BB Atsa's sent letters without PCS being aware! Everyone in NATS needs to be concerned about this.