But they won't be. The standing together as a unified force is not our strong point. This company has a well and truly divided workforce (going back as far as regrading posts from ATCO2 to 3 around about 1987)...albeit with loads of dry powder. I predict we will roll over once again.

If this is factual I would hope working together is consigned to the dustbin and a company wide ballot for industrial action follows closely behind, with Prospect strongly recommending a vote in favour.

Yup.

Instant ATSA pay cuts of between £1,000 and £17,000 were on the cards at one point, if you believe PCS. NATS management however, spin a completely opposing line, explaining that PCS were always involved etc etc.

All in all, if you're an ATSA it doesn't bode well, with a time and motion study just around the corner.

I know we've been saying that for years, but this time the facts are there to back the statement up.

<<If this is factual I would hope working together is consigned to the dustbin and a company wide ballot for industrial action follows closely behind, with Prospect strongly recommending a vote in favour.>>


Not a chance.

The time to stand together has come and gone. Apart from which, why would prospect recommend industrial action for something which is effectively a lost cause. If the best we could do was raise an eyebrow and tut when we got stuffed (by the company and the people who could not be @rsed voting) on pension and pay deals, then there is no chance anybody is going to be donning donkey jackets and rushing out to man the braziers this winter.

And shame on me for thinking like that, but be honest, how many of you would be truely willing to take industrial action in order to save your ATSA colleagues jobs?

The faceless few, past and present, who sit up top in their ivory tower and run a sythe through peoples careers and lives, seem to be doing very nicely, thank you very much. http://www.nats.co.uk/wp-content/upl..._ARAA_2010.pdf

Looking at some of the bloated renumeration packages it makes me wonder how many ATSA's kids could be kept in school uniforms or keep food on the table or pay the mortgage/rent with just a fraction of what these guys earn (and I use that term loosely)

Forgive me for being naive, but before things get as far as balloting for industrial action couldn't the union start playing hardball in the short term. Now I know plenty of us take part in the AVA scheme especially at the moment at the enhanced rate; myself included. Personally I see nothing wrong in taking part in the scheme but I also realise how much the company is relying on this. If, HOWEVER, the union was to recommend to its members not to take part then I for one would immediately stop doing them. I also believe many others would too. There's no point frowning on people who do overtime unless PROSPECT set the initiative. Come on PROSPECT, grow some balls and generate some solidarity!

At the moment I can think of at least one unit that'd come to a rapid and grinding halt if the ATSAs undertook an overtime ban.

But then, they'd also have to give up their early go's and extended breaks in order to work to rule. And I sense, amongst some of them, they wouldn't be willing to do any of those three things.

ATSAs - you really need to help yourselves and act whilst what little powder you have left is dry.....

"We must hang together,or assuredly we shall hang separately"

Benjaman Franklin at the signing of the American Declaration of Independence

Cean....I think you will find at our unit early go's and extended breaks dont exist for the ATSA's.......:confused::confused::confused:

They do at some of the other units.

Of course we could try to help improve NATS' revenue stream.....putting them into a better position [and frame of mind ] to negotiate. Route Charge Avoidance is at epidemic levels.......certainly at Swanwick we all know.....operators file minimum UK mileage but pilots ask for the opposite, knowing that no increase in charges will result once airborne. This happens every night/quiet hours/weekend and has done for years. The loss in revenue runs into £Millions.
Why? well ATCO's have not traditionally paid much attention to the revenue side of the business......coupled with a desire to get traffic from A to B as efficiently as possible. Operators will continue as long as the loophole exists.....ATCO's will continue until someone tells them not to.

Speaking as an engineer, superb comment! We've been pressed for years to find revenue streams and plug leaks - didn't realise we had potential revenue gushing out at the coalface and everyone ignoring it! :E

I always understood that the NATS route charging system takes flight plan data from NAS. If they are amending flight plans en-route and those amendments are entered into NAS then they might still get charged. Of course if nobody amends the flight plan in NAS the route charging system won't know they didn't fly their original flight plan.

Route charges are collected by Eurocontrol and are based, as far as I'm aware, on the flight plan in the system 30 mins before departure.

So for every Canary Islands to EGCC flight, as an example, which files via Irish airspace but then is given a re-route once airborne via BHD, NATS will only ever be paid for the original LIFFY-EGCC route.

Great system eh?

I thought the Eurocontrol charging system had nothing to do with the flight plan but the great circle route?

Wasn't there another "meeting" last Friday? Anyone heard how long this one lasted and if any progress has been made at all??

Dear all

We would like to update you on the latest joint meeting on pay held between Management and the Trade Unions on Friday 10 December.

At the outset of the meeting, Management made an improved offer in the light of sectional discussions identifying changes that could be introduced on a sectional basis to increase efficiency and flexibility in our business. This offer was for a one year deal of a 2% increase to pay and all pay related allowances, effective from 1 January 2011. The offer is conditional on reaching agreement on a satisfactory principle on the provision of MET (meteorological services), consistent with NSL achieving cost savings.

The Trade Unions response was that this offer was totally unacceptable given the August RPI figure of 4.7% and that only a significantly improved offer would be considered.

Management stressed that NSL could not afford an RPI deal in light of the commercial challenges they faced on contracts and the resulting impact this could have on jobs.

There remains a significant gap between our positions. Both sides agreed to increase the frequency of meetings in an attempt to resolve the issue.

The next ‘core’ meeting on pay will take place in January. We will let you know the outcome of those discussions.

Interesting that one of our 'poor' customers (BA) are reportedly offering their pilots a 5.9% 2 year pay deal...

Although NERL and NSL are 2 entities, are NATS not still 'one company'? If not, where do the Corporate staff sit with regards to a pay deal that encompases everyone or are they, for the purposes of this, conveniently attached to the profitable NERL?

That statement is nicely worded to engender division of the workforce. It implies that NERL can afford a larger payrise, but that NSL performance is effectively capping everyones award :=. A nice attempt at creating resentment and division.

Corporate staff are situated in all 3 companies... Yes, three. Some, like the legal team, safety etc are not NERL or NSL but in fact, NATS. :8

An attempt maybe but discussing this at work yesterday there was complete understanding that NERL and NSL need to stick together.

At least NATS didn't try to seperate us even more by only paying the latest dividend to NERL staff having stated that the dividend came from NERL. :rolleyes: