Ghost...

It'll be reasonably sensible numbers like 15/30 minute chunks as opposed to 78 mins... and the speeds/distances will also be conducive to being able to work out the answer in your head. pretty sure you wont need to resort to long division as mentioned. And its multiple choice too, so the right answer should be obvious even if you're 1/2 kts out. :)

On the matter of hearing results, at both stage 2 and 3 got told there and then that I'd passed... glad it removed the waiting around, hate that :ouch:

Best of luck all :ok:

Will they still provide any scraps of paper to doodle on?
Hey I'm starting to get good at this division merlaki :)

Motivational Paper 2
 

Hi folks

studying for S2 and am trying to memorize the info given for my S1 especially all the info for the aircraft types.

Just wondered if i will be tested on exactly what is said in the S1 booklet only?

Before anybody responds saying learn it to the letter, i am fully aware and prepared to do this because i know it will be far tougher down the line but the reason i am asking is that i am using 3rd party books/websites and there is conflicting advice, especially on the standard seating part.

example - Booklet advises standard seating on a Boeing 737-800 is 160, but have read elsewhere it is 175, and the booklet gives no info on standard seating for 737-500, although again have read it is 123 as standard.

am a little confused about the level of external sources i am supposed to use if any, but the reason i am doing so is because the booklet is a little disorganized in this regard, sometimes given maximum seating sometimes not, not always breaking seating down by series number...

any advice would be appreciated.
shugs

Could someone please advise me on how long the S1 math section test is?
I know its multiple choice, but how long do they give you in total?

Also is it done on sheet form or online?

hi GhostUK

there is no 'maths section', rather there is 4/5 maths questions in the motivation paper which has something like 25-30 questions in total. they give you 10-15minutes roughly, but it is easily accomplished if you know the stuff they give you in advance.

its all done on paper, you just shade the appropriate box in.

Hi GhostUK,

I did my Stage 1 last week in Glasgow. In answer to your questions, you do indeed get given scrap paper during all the tests. The maths questions appear as part of the motivation paper - approx 5/6 out of the 40 if I remember rightly. There is no separate maths paper.

Others have already recommended this but see Nokio's post on page 22 for a guide to how many questions you should expect for each part of Stage 1 as well as timings. My tests were exactly the same and got 18 minutes for the motivation paper (although it flies by!).

Good luck!

paperclip810,

I really appreciate that info mate.

THANK YOU :ok:

All the best with yours.

Shugs, the stuff tested at stage 2 is what is in the stage 1 and the stage 2 "extra booklet" (I believe there still is a one for stage 2?). This is all that will be in the multi-choice test at stage 2, nothing extra that is nasty and trick-questioning. And I don't remember there being much on seating numbers?

(You could always give the answer to the question "And how many people would there be on board a 747?" - "Depends how many tickets they sold". That was ACTUALLY said in a oral board a month or so back at the college).

birdie... you gotta tell me who came up with that gem!! thats sublime...

and as regards those capacity questions, the choices of answer arent likely to be 156/157/159/161... theres going to be enough of a difference between the options that if you have read the info you should get the right answer. e.g. 747-400 capacity 100, 200, 300, 600.

Thanks watch_the_birdie/AJ7

Which personality do you think an ATC role would suit better, an introvert or an extrovert?

Personality Questionnaire
 

Hello everyone,
I was hoping you could give me a bit of advice...
I took the stage one test several weeks ago and felt very confident afterwards. I received an email last week telling me that I had to do the above questionnaire and then await details of the next stage - it seemed to suggest that I'd passed the tests.
The tests were (as everyone says) a bit of a nightmare. Yesterday I was informed that I had been unsuccessful. Now, I realise this may be just my disappointment talking, but I really can't stand the idea of failing a personality test! How on earth am I supposed to improve on that for next time? I just don't believe those things are any kind of decent judge of your potential or character.
Basically, I was wondering if you think I'd have any chance of persuading NATS to give me a face-to-face opportunity, or whether I should just move on?! Alternatively, am I wrong to assume that I passed the initial tests, but then failed the questionnaire ? That would certainly be a lot easier to live with...
Thanks in advance

Do you think if someone has a really high score than nats will not be so worried about the personality test? However if someone’s score is borderline they use the personality test as a deciding factor?

Hi Avenarius
have read quite a few of the threads on this page, but don't recall anybody saying they were turned down at S1 but then successfully got a face to face. think this does occasionally happen at later stages though depending on circumstance. I would guess you are right to assume you passed the tests if they invited you for the personality thing, if you had failed them don't think NATS would have bothered.

Just briefly, i was in same position, failed S1 1st time because of that test, passed the 2nd time. i was more honest the 2nd time and think this is what got me through. (am currently preparing for S2).
If it helps, the ATC at S1 said he was in the minority for getting through the application first time.

Hektor, again just from what i have read, the personality test is pivotal, they will not overlook just because of how you perform in other tests. personality plays a huge part in how NATS think you will perform, and indeed how you do perform/think/interact, think that is why you get 2/3 personality tests before being accepted for college.
hope my extremely limited knowledge/guess work is useful:rolleyes:

Hi Avenarius,

Sorry to hear you haven't got past Stage 1 this time. Somewhere in amongst this 87 pages of interview goodness I seem to remember seeing that NATS have (in the past) given feedback on why candidates have failed Stage 1 - it appears they can give you some idea of which parts you did well/not so well in. Perhaps that's a more productive and useful thing to do rather than try and convince them that they should see you? Personally I think anyone willing to ask for feedback or constructive criticism should be well-thought of - at least you care enough to try and improve and show them what you can do next time round.

Out of interest (since I'm still waiting on S1 results myself), how long did it take until you heard that you were invited to do the personality test?

Avenarius...yes, unfortunately it is possible to fail a personality test. If that were not the case, then it would be difficult to justify its inclusion in the selection process.

I'm afraid you won't find out what sections of the personality test you failed on, if indeed that was the case. If you still want to re-apply next year, use the time wisely.:ok:

Shugs, I'd say that currently around 30% of successful candidates get in on their second or third attempt. I find it a real shame when I see candidates applying again but who haven't done anything to improve their chances. :sad:

Thanks for that Gonzo, although I must say I am now slightly disheartened, you make it sound like if you dont get in first time then the odds are against you:{ in that sense I agree with Avenarius, in that if you fail the personality test and nobody gives you feedback, how can you take steps to improve.

I'd suggest the odds are against everyone who applies for NATS at any time, only a limited number make it through, you have to work hard and really want to do it to get there. That said it also shouldnt be seen as the only option, if you fail first time around, use the 12 months wisely to improve yourself and make it your mission to prove to the recruiters that you are worthy of a job offer. Your application won't be viewed positively or negatively as regards other candidates, its what you have changed about you that is the pivotal factor.

And for my two pence worth surrounding personality tests... surely you just answer the questions? :confused: I mean sure theres a lot of them, and some of them may have answers that dont necessarily apply to you, but on the whole theres an answer to suit the type of person you are. Sometimes I think people may suffer in these tests cause they get caught between giving their personal answer and the answer they believe they want NATS to hear... May be wrong on that and stand to be corrected, but for me thats a sure fire way of confusing yourself and showing up badly to the recruiters. Just be yourself...

Shugs, this is something where statistics and 'odds' cannot represent the situation. If you are unfortunate enough to be knocked back, you fail at something more tangible than the personality test (stage 1 tests, stage 3 interview etc), and you spend the year working on the areas you failed on, you stand a higher chance of being accepted.

We do not assess a candidate any differently if they're a re-applicant.

The danger with giving feedback about a failed personality test (i.e. you need to be more decisive), is that next year the candidate may well lie to appear more decisive.

Thats better Gonzo :O
the lower success rates for people who apply 2nd/3rd time is because they don't put in the effort, as opposed to the system being against them.
cheers

Thanks for the excellent replies. A good night's sleep has given me a bit more perspective on the whole thing. Perhaps I was one of those that was torn between answering the questions honestly and not making myself appear to be overly laid back or introverted. Clearly, there's not much point in trying to persuade them of anything. The decision has been made. But I will persist in trying to get feedback of some sort.

Gonzo: your comments make a lot of sense. Of course there's a risk that feedback will lead to candidate's lying next time. On the other hand, it would also give them an idea of how to improve their candidacy and make themselves a better asset to NATS. Plus, any fakers will surely be found out come the interviews...

Paperclip: It took about three weeks until the first email, advising me to take the personality test. It then took a further week before I was informed of the result. I believe there are issues with a new computer system...
Good luck!

Shugs: Well done! what sort of things did you do to improve your chances?
In fact, I'd appreciate any advice on how to use the year until the next application wisely. I'll definitely be giving it another shot.
Cheers

Shugs,

Be careful, the 30% I quoted (just my own experience with the recruitment process, by the way) is 30% of all successful candidates are on their 2nd or 3rd attempt, not that you have only a 30% chance of being successful if you are re-applying. So I don't know if the 'success rate' for re-applicants is lower or higher than first timers.

ok Gonzo, things are gettin too bogged down now especially as neither of us really know what the answer is, lol.

basically out of all qualified ATC's, 70% got through first time. This does not mean you discriminate against re-applicants, but suggests that the majority of re-applicants do not work as hard as they should upon re-application, especially given they know more than they did when they first applied, or that after one application, few people use the available 2nd/3rd attempts. :8

Avenarius, because i failed quite early in the application 1st time round, I knew very little about what was expected of me as i had only done the S1 stuff. I did however learn the document more throughly and try and do more test cubes things, as they are the two most difficult bits of the testing stage.
I read up more generally on the job. as said many times before, there was nothing i could do with regard to the personality bit bacause there is no feedback, and as Gonzo said, rightly so. although i dont no why i failed i suspect it is because i answered the questions trying to think what NATS were looking for as opposed what was actually true of me, 2nd time round i also tried not to think too long on each of the questions.

Yes, that's correct in my experience.

I suspect that this is frequently the case.

ok, thanks aewaite17 and Gonzo.
Basically regardless of what the figures say, i stand the same chance of becoming an ATC now (or next time:*) than if i had gotten all the way through first time. :D
shugs

Had my stage 2 yesterday, i feel it all went allright actually apart from the end part of the computer test was INSANE.
Is the normal stage 2 waiting time about a week? I didn't get a chance to mention a tower visit so yeah before stage 3 it isn't really of much use.
The questions were strange ones, i had one asking what magazines i was subscribed too.

stage 2
 

i got stage 2 next week - good luck! Strange q's, mmm? I better get subscribing and not to heat magazine :rolleyes:

Hi glasgowgirl - good luck for next week. i started out on the 6th in glasgow and have my S2 next week as well. fingers crossed:8

I am through!!!
 

Wow, the new have come through today, meaning I got email from NATS to do the personality test online, which means I passed the initial test in London 3rd Nov. I realise that this is just a very beginning of that feared recruitment process but it is a big step for me and the news made my day.

Not a strange question at all. A subscription probably isn't necessary, but if you haven't been reading Flight International to keep abreast of what's happening in the industry then you're missing a trick.

i was there on the afternoon, 6th october!!

yup in the afternoon also, was in the group that did testing first and talking to second. think you've got everything sorted for next week? dont think i have quite yet but we'll see...:hmm:

S1 involved talking???

sorry "talking to" as in an ATC talked through what the job involved and then Q&A. :O

I told them I read Empire... And Feonagh told them she reads More (or something similarly trashy...) Heh heh...

It didn't harm us anyway :}

Hi Guys,

I've got my 2nd shot at this coming up very very soon! Cannot believe it has been a year since I last applied.

So, Stage 1 here I come...again!

I saw in a post on this thread that someone was concerned about conflicting information. Just wanted to say that I've found some of the information to be conflicting, some of it out-of-date (it says on the front page that the date the document was written was in 2003) so there are bound to be some things that aren't quite right...more importantly though the tests will be based on the documents given to you, not the information you find elsewhere. I am pretty sure NATS know that the docs are not completely up-to-date. If you're the kind of person who likes to look around and know which info is different, then I'm sure that will only serve you correctly for the future...stage 3 say and your career with NATS...just remember in the testing to go by the documents you've been given. Even then, it's only minor info that's incorrect now i.e. some companies are no longer in service etc.

Good luck to everyone and if anyone on here is going along to Tower Bridge on the 5th Dec, I'll see you there!
:)

Change of Assesment procedure? (3rd stage)
 

Had my Third Stage a couple of months ago and although it didn't go awful (they were generally pleased with me and thought i'd make a good ATCO. I was very pleased, yet waited for the inevitable but)...But they were uncertain as to my motivation for doing. I had mentioned money and job security as a big part of it and they didn't want me starting and finding i hated it and leaving. Also the numpty i that i am never visited anywhere (in hind sight i can see the problem with this, but had been so wrapped up with work at the time i didn't get round to it). They told me to make a visit (which i did and loved it) and contact them again in Decmeber to re-arrange the thrid stage (they said i wouldn't have to start from the begining again, which i was pretty pleased about). I contacted them early and have my 3rd stage next Wednesday in London. When i booked up online it said First Interview rather than 3rd Stage, i asked them about it and was told they had a new system, but it was the 3rd Stage. Didn't know if anyone had been recently and if the 'new system' was a change in the day or just the booking online?

God that was a bit waffly,

Dan Ling

studying
 

Yeah been studying loads and really enjoying. Alot is repitition from first doc so glad I learned that outside in. Been using !!!!!!!!!!!!!! photo quiz to help me learn planes. I was in the talk group first then the testing! God was i frazzled that night. :eek:

Graham Duke
 

Got it, weeks ago!!! I've been a busy wee yen!!