This is all very exciting, but in 30 years of operational ATC I never had to do anything like it.
Who on Earth devises this stuff?
It may have been useful in the 1950s, but most ATCOs today use radar. Sorry....'situational displays'.
I suspect the 'exercises' are generated by folks with little or no 'hands-on' experience as speeds in aviation are usually expressed in knots.

doubt
 

Crazy Voyager,

Actually, I can't get down to figuring it out. If the plane (traveling at 180mph) takes the same time to travel 7 miles as it does 5, the difference in speed is 50mph and not 30.

Since (t=d/s=) 7/180=0,038 and to calculate the speed at which the plane went at to travel 5 miles in 0,038, we get it went at 130mph... Therefore 180-130=50mph. From where 50mph is the speed of the wind againts the plane... Doesn't this sound right?


To ZOOKER: the fact is to prepare for the numerical test since you are asked to solve problems of this type without prejudice of you ever been asked to resolve this kind of stuff in the real screen scenario.

@zooker
I'm not an ATCO (hopefully in two weeks I'm officially a tATCO though) but I agree with you. The only reasonable usage I've found is approach/departure. If you do 180 knots you do 3 miles per minute and the approach speed is less. Say it's 150 knots which means 2.5 miles per minute, so at 6 miles you should in theory have at least 2 minutes to work with for departures.

Apart from that, I have no clue why the insist on it. But I guess being good with maths might indicate some aptitude they want to have in their atcos.


@mts

I'll get back to you later with a solution.

CV,

Hopefully in a few weeks you will be a TATC :) - a small point but you might as well start right.

And your right, there isn't a huge amount of maths involved in training or on the job, but as you say the ability to convert speed to time is very handy.

As for the test, I guess NATS have to whittle down the application pool somehow and this is just one in a long list of ways they have of doing so.

mts1

I agree with you now, I have worked on the problem using both paper and calculator and I agree it should be 50 mph (or rather 51.43 mph).

How ever if you reached my conclusion then hopefully we are both right and something is wrong in what you quoted or the source itself. If we're right and the calculations are right then I don't think you should focus to much on this. As long as you get how you're supposed to do it then I wouldn't worry about it.

I've had a quick look at the maths problem and it's simple enough. Unfortunately I'm on a phone so I may not be able to explain it all that well.

Using speed = distance/time

Time is equal in both instances:
Let x be the wind speed
Using distance1 as 7 miles @ speed1 180+x
And distance2 as 5 miles @ speed2 180-x

distance1/speed1 = distance2/speed2
7/(180+x) = 5/(180-x)
7(180-x) = 5(180+x)
1260 - 7x = 900 + 5x
12x = 360
x = 30 mph

Crazy Voyager, thanks for your help, I appreciate it.
marco888: I understand the solution you set out, but since the time they take is the same, then the speed can not be 180 in both cases (as the distances they travel are different), and you've used the same speed for both planes.

So, either the time is the same (which is the case) or the speed, but both, I just don't get it. Sorry.

EDIT: Yeah, it needed a second reading. I get now. Thank-you to to marco888 and Crazy Voyager.

Anyone send off the personality questionnaire (after stage 2) heard from nats? Tomorrow it will be 3 weeks since I sent it off, 6 weeks since stage 2 and I don't actually know whether I'm through to stage 3 yet.

They sent me the invitation but with no available slots... Probably 3 or 4 weeks ago...

My Stage 2 was MONTHS ago... Not too long after CV, yet I'm still awaiting a Stage 3 date.

I'm afraid there seems to be some lag time between Stages 2 and 3. We can but wait. If you have the invite, that's... a pretty good sign IMHO. Sorry I can't be more specific about 'how long' they will keep you in suspense!

Phil

Does anyone know when they will re-open the recruitment?

They've written on their facebook page that they will re-evaluate their need for recruiting in the autumn, how ever there is no definition of when autumn actually is.

Like a few people I presume I passed the Stage 2 as I received the next questionnaire to complete but I've heard nothing since then! Not sure whether to get in contact or just sit tight really.

Is it not open now?
There is a link saying "Start my application" but upon clicking it, I just get "There are no jobs that match the search criteria at this time." I hope this means they just open it on monday?

AFAIK know it's still closed, even though oddly enough the atcocareers website mentions nothing off this...

Quotes off facebook
So according to this it's still closed and new dates won't be released until late autumn, so I'm guessing in a month or so perhaps?

Just want to let anyone thats allocated to the area course 229 in October know theres a face book group for it.

Hi SALH

Sit tight, don't worry; I have not yet got start dates either. I was told at my interview that it would be unlikely to be before April 2012, and I haven't chased them yet. I had my interview at Hurn in March. That said if your schedule is running 3 months ahead of mine, I can understand your growing concerns... If you're desperate for dates so that you can begin planning relocation, leaving your current employment and so on, then perhaps try again if you don't hear anything soon. Otherwise I wouldn't worry too much just yet.



I asked a couple of people during my interview day, college staff and the odd current student. All advised against doing anything in particular, suggesting that learning information out of the context of the college wouldn't make sense. To be honest, this did surprise me, but they were consistent! I have been reading a little online, the odd Flight International, the odd book etc. Actually one thing that was advised was to start saving, depending on what your current income is college could hit you hard, though for others it's not much difference. I'm more than prepared to stand corrected here, if somebody feels they have a wonderful experience/study suggestion to make!


Perhaps I'll see you next year... well done for getting through!

Is anyone else waiting to hear?

If I get my medical cleared (I should have the paper next week hopefully) then I'll join the people waiting for a course. Out of intrest, have you been asked if you have any prefrence for Aerodrome or Area by HR?


To the person I met last week in a certain VCR, I haven't forgotten I was to send you a PM but unfortunately I can't for my life find the note with your user-name :ugh: :{
If you read this I'd be very happy if you'd send me a pm!

Aerodrome / Area Preference
 

Yes, I have; it has also been explained to me each time I've been asked that my preference is unlikely to count for much, but I was pleased to be asked all the same :)

Hello all,

ATCO nearly 30 years in (LHR,LGW,TC). With regard to preparation prior to starting at the college I would be in agreement with the comment above.It isn't worth second guessing the actual course content and the risk is what you find out may be different or at worse at odds with what is taught;...however,reading aviation mags (Flight etc.) ,swotting up a bit on aircraft types/performance/configuration and a bit of general background on UK ATC would be very useful if only for the feeling of preparedness it may give.Having said that I wouldn't bust a gut and burn the midnight oil committing a load of stuff to memory.

Hope that's of use,good luck.

Thanks Gapster... really helpful, I appreciate it!

Sheps and co.

Well done to everyone that has passed and to all your worries and wonderings, I passed my stage 3 a year ago now, did my medical in January, was asked for course preference in March and haven't heard anything since, despite emails, calls.. This forum has actually really helped me to keep calm and stay patient, because I think that is the only thing we can do now(and maybe read the odd flight magazine and save up yes :))
Good luck to everyone else and maybe see you in the new year:ok:

Wow can you just give me a rundown on your process so far, because you say you did your stage 3 a year ago and had the medical in January and your looking to start march next year? Does the interview process covering all stages take about year then? When did you very 1st apply via the nats website?

ATC training preparation!!!!
 

Hi all

I am extremely keen on applying to become a ATC trainee but would like to prepare myself to the best of my ability possible before doing so!

Does anyone out there have any good advise please???

What would be the best mathematical revision to do??

Is there any prep studying or courses out there??

Any response will be valued

Thanks..............

Recruitment English Language Assessment
 

Hi,

Just been informed that I have to attend a Recruitment English Language Assessment at NATS Whiteley before I can sign a contract. I didn't know anything about this before, but I presume I have to do it because I'm not a native English speaker.

Did anybody else have to attend this assessment? What does it consist of? Presumably it's like ELSA: reading, listening, writing, speaking ? How do you prepare best for it?

Thanks

cfwme: It is a good idea to read the last 20 or so pages of this thread. held within is excellent advice covering most of the topics you will want to learn about.

MjaM: I believe NATS state somewhere on their website the required level of English, although I can't find it off hand. However I do know that NATS is approved to test people at all levels of the ICAO scale in English Language Proficiency. (reference CAA website).

Sorry, that may not be much use but, it might act as a starting point for your research?

Phil

MjaM:
That's odd, I was told I would have my language profficency test during my course. I'm not a naitive speaker either.

How good is your english? Could it be that they want to make sure you can get ICAO level 5 (which is what NATS require)? Not sure when they would judge that though (interview I guess).

Just speculating now though, but I've been told that I will have my ICAO english test during the course (then again, that might change and I have to go there as well).

PhiltheReaper:

I think I have the required level of English. I mean I'm not a 100% certain since the schooling system differs from country to country, but there was no problem with my application nor with my educational certificates which I send NATS after completing all the assessments. I actually got an email back in January that I start on the course in October. I don't know what has changed since then:hmm:

Everything helps so thanks :)

Crazy Voyager:

I'm not sure that this is a test of ICAO English, I mean that is aviation English which you can't know BEFORE starting the course. It's probably a more general assessment of English,but yes probably to test your ability to get the ICAO level 5 later on.

My English is good, and they do test some of it during the FEAST tests and of course during the interview. I made some mistakes during the interview because I was nervous which I normally wouldn't, but never got a feeling that my English wasn't good enough.

I don't know, I'll start revising English in general, focusing on my grammar (which got a little bit rusty in recent years :) ) and maybe listening and talking. And hopefully NATS will send me a more detailed description of the assessment when they give me a date for it. Now all I know that it will probably be in the next two months.

MjaM:
The assessment you were asked to attend is basically like an interview. Most of the discussion will be aviation related but you are not required to have advanced knowledge of aviation or ATC (that's not the point of the assessment). It's about English language so they will be introducing some topics and all you have to do is discuss so they can check your English.

Have a look at the ICAO language proficiency requirements so you are familiar with the 6 categories being assessed and the requirement for each of the 6 levels (there's a table here). Don't bother much with all the practice tests and sample tests and aviation english school webpages that will come up when you use a search engine. Those are mostly for pilots and are different to what you will do. They can be more confusing than helpful.

Crazy Voyager:
Indeed you will do the formal language proficiency test during training together with everyone else (the native speakers). But what you were told doesn't necessarily mean you are excluded from the recruitment assessment unless you were specifically told so. As MjaM found out it's a rather nasty surprise when shortly before starting you wait for the contract paperwork and instead you are told "you have to do one more test". So if you are at a similar stage in the recruitment and a non-native speaker check with HR so you know exactly what to expect.

Cheers PhiltheReaper I'll have a good look at that:)

@caln

Yep I'll have to have a look at that, oh well, I've been over 4 times already so a fifth won't make much of a difference :p

Recruitment of ATCOs
 

I am told that external applications for ATCO recruitment will begin again in October 2011. So for all you wannabe ATCOs do not dispair!:D

Re-applying
 

To anyone who's re-applied, how strict is the timing between applications? NATS' official word is that a 12 month gap must be left between Stage 1 test dates.

However I ask genuinely in respect to the fact that I originally applied last September 2010 and scheduled my Stage 1 for December 2010 but due to unforeseen circumstances had to cancel my December 2010 Stage 1 date and re-schedule to the next available which was in April 2011.

Therefore, do you reckon if it matters to much if I re-applied in December this year as opposed to waiting till April?

standardapproach

Speak to recruitment 01489 44 4453.

caln:

Thanks for all the information, you calmed me down a little ;)

It mostly is just that, a nasty surprise. Not only I don't start when I thought I will, I have to take another test and there is also a small chance (if I fail the test) that I don't even make it to the ATC course...Oh well I'll just have to try and practice my speaking and hope for the best:)

Hi, I need some help regarding crosswind problems, I hope someone can help me out since it is really bugging me...Lets see...I´ll set out an example and then the questions...

1. If there is a wind on runway 03 reported as 350/25, what is the crosswind component?... what I don't understand, is why in crosswind problems you are always given the runway number, why is that?, how is the runway number linked to the calculation you are asked??, and, what does 350/25 mean?

Thanks.

Hi there mates! I'm actually waiting for my re-apply date. I failed stage 1 and I'm wondering if I have to leave 1 year from PHASE 1 or from first application.

@mts1 Never heard of a problem like that one before :eek: I don't know how the crosswind is calculated but I think I can help you with the other part of the question. You have RWY 03, and the wind is blowing 350 at 25KT. So that means that your RWY is 030 magnetic course (probably), and the wind is blowing FROM 350 at 25 KT, so you will encounter this wind at approximatly your 11 to 12 o' clock position. You are flying 030 and the wind comes from your left, almost on your nose.

Hope I have helped.

Cheers

yeah, thanks

hey mixmastermike I don´t really understand how your read the chart...