STAGE 1
 

Hiya,

I was wandering if anyone who has completed all the stages or even jus the first one could tell me about their experience as im so nervous about my stage 1 on Friday (09/07/10) after reading through all the posts everyone sounds so intelligent and nobody is as young as me!

Just looking for a bit of re assurance or just some experiences of Stage 1 so im not in such a panic about it all.

Im travelling over 350 miles for this and really want to do my best

thanks

Abby

I'm 20, not that big a difference.

chemi - where abouts you staying?

Can people who have done the online test recently tell me if they did mental arithmetic on it? Mine was just Checking, I'm getting worried the test didn't load properly, as irrational as that may be..

@mingmongaloo

I did my online test yesterday and it was all just checking, no mental arithmetic involved.

So don't worry! ;)

Cheers;) I'd already sent an email before I got offered the test to HR because I was worried some aspects of my CV/online application would result in me being automatically filtered out unfairly, which turned out to be unnecessary as I received the invite half an hour later (doh), if I'd emailed them again I would've seemed a right numpty!

@scotthooker:

Well, I'm staying in a flat in Southampton, that's why I am looking for "some friends" over there. Just to enjoy my stay, go out and, of course, get involved within an English environment. If you can help me, it would be great!!!:)

Thank you!!

@Scott

I read an article in the paper that inspired me to research ATC in January. I applied early February.

I did ST1 mid Feb. I only left myself 3 days to prepare for ST1 as I didn't realise I had to learn the document. For the other tests I just reviewed the material they sent as nothing else is directly relevant. Because they are aptitude tests practice doesn't necessarily improve your ability to pass unless you happen upon almost identical questions.

I did my ST2 in April and did no preparation for it as there is really nothing you can do.

I did my ST3 on Monday July 5th as I had my final exams for my degree in May/June (2:1 BEng Civil Engineering - thankfully now my insurance policy)! Preparation for ST3 involved reading Air Traffic Control by Graham Duke and visiting my local (non-NATS) control tower. I also did some research into competency based interviewing but this didn't really help as you don't know what you will be asked and you need to think of specific examples on the spot in the interview. Basically you will be ok if you can think quickly but will come unstuck if your mind goes blank or if you hesitate for too long.

Right, booked my ST1 for the 20th in Bournemouth.

To prepare or not to prepare?
 

I have been reading this forum for some time and I am always surprised at the kind of responses that SOME members give to someone who is a) new to the forum b) is genuinely worried about the forthcoming assessment (usually Stage 1) and requests information as to how to best prepare for it.

The usual response is something along the way…”know the ATC material they send you inside out, practice your mental arithmetics...apart from that there is not much you can do”. Often this is followed by the statement “…you’ve either have it (to be an ATC!!!) Or you don’t”.

I can not help but notice that there is something slightly imbalanced with this “you either have it or you don't” statement. To me, it sounds like an elitist approach which implies that you are either “chosen” (by virtue of character, inclination or perhaps god’s grace) to be an ATC or not. Besides personally finding this an elitist (and slightly arrogant and offensive to other less privileged souls) approach, it totally disregards the fact that human beings are also capable of constant change, learning new skills or adapting to new situations provided that enough (self) motivation, effort, perseverance (and perhaps luck) are applied to the project/endeavour at hand. If this is not the case then we would all still be living in the cave because no-one would ever learn anything unless they were innately endowed with the qualities that would ensure survival.

Going back to the ATC, I acknowledge that some people may be more geared (by natural inclination, previous experience and practice etc) towards a job in ATC and perhaps may excel at passing through the stages without much preparation or study. Others however and perhaps the majority (and I include myself here, too) may have to prepare longer and harder in order to reach the required standard for passing the assessment stages (and ideally being competent in the job). You may not “have it” but you can still develop it with enough effort, hard work etc; you may not have the innate or through-experience-developed advantage as others (unfair as life it is) but you can build it up and that should perhaps not be disregarded, just as “having it” is not failsafe for being a good ATC.

There also evidence from neuropsychology that learning new skills (even trying to maintain a positive outlook towards life if you are a pessimist!) creates new neurons and neuronal connections within the brain that account for those new skills/aptitudes learnt. So there is hope.

I offer this views not to create strife here, but perhaps to offer a more balanced approach to those new ones here who may feel there is not much they can do to prepare (at least for Stage 1/Stage 3; Stage 2 may be a totally different thing as admittedly there is not much to do to prepare unless you have €50.00 to spare) Of course any healthy debate is welcome.

@Abby_bwfc
@WbATC

Feel free to PM if you need any information about preparing for the exam. Happy to pass to you my notes, cube/diagramming templates and answer any questions .

NATS College
 

I have just finished all my security checks and medical and now just waiting on a date. I know there are others waiting to but have any of you got any information on accomodation? i have heard there are old b&b's that are now ten room houses just for the ATCO's

I've heard this 3% figure bandied about quite a bit, has this ever been backed up? It seems prohibitively small given the number of acceptances to rejections I've seen in this thread, although I guess chances are the average level of people on here is probably at least slightly higher than the overal average level of all applicants.

mingmongaloo, (a very hot Chinese curry perhaps?). :E
The 3% figure is probably fairly accurate.
The statement that the tests "weed out the people who WILL NOT pass the college, and those who WILL NOT pass the validation", is alarmingly misleading.
Don't forget the responsibility for the safety of those on the ground too, over whose homes and businesses, NATS conducts its operations.
Best of luck with Stage 1.

On preparation and other such daemons.
 

aewaite17,

I hear what you have to say and you make some serious points indeed.

I cannot comment whether there is an innate basis for information processesing as I simply don't know anything about it. I agree though that we all come with a genetic predisposition that it will (or will not) manifest given appropriae stimulus and education.

I personally had no clue about spatial awareness as I never had to use it in my previous work placements. And indeed, I found the cubes at stage 1 extremely difficult, but after spending 2 weeks before the exam trying to figure out how they work, using my own models and with the valuable input of some people here, I went to the Stage 1 exam and found it a piece of cake. It took me lots of time and effort to break through the cubes but one I had crossed that threshold I felt that I had made that knowledge mine and that it was there to stay.

I agree, not everyone can be an ATC. It a very demanding job from many different point of views. Still, I personally see the whole process of going through the stages as a way of testing myself against the process too, my capacity to learn, to stretch outside of my confort zone, to engage with a subject completely foreign up until now, to check my capacity to keep on going when trying to understand those cubes and they seemed to occupy most of my mind in waking and at sleep...what I am trying to say in other words is that it is a learning curve and in the process you learn about yourself, your limitations and how you can work through obstacles to reach the goal. Not everyone will get there (and the good thing is that here you compete against yourself and not others) but there is merit in trying as there is a lot to learn.

When I talk about a form of eliticism I don't generalise the whole group of ATCO, whether trainees or validated ATCO (the ones I have met seemed very humble and sober to say the least). I am talking specifically about some (very few) people here that they proclaim the "you either have it or you don't" approach on the basis of doing very little preparation and being successful in what seems to be a very challenging and difficult assessment process. Those are indeed the "lucky" ones that perhaps through a combination of genetics or circumstance, they seemed geared to the role of the ATCO and thus do really well in the assessment. For the rest of us, the show must go on and we will resort to the qualities of discipline, effort, perseverance, hard work, optimism and mother fortuna to take us there...

It's best not to ask where the name comes from, mainly because I'm not sure myself;)
And fair play. I am now appropriately more bricking it for the 20th, then:uhoh:

Hello little airmen!,

Seem to be a little in the dark here; as I understand it, in stage 2 you´re only required to take some computer tests. No motivation paper tests or any such thing. Is this true?.

Hey there!,
You seem to know what you´re talking about, so allow me a couple of questions. 1.- Since I´m scheduled to take my stage 2 this month, is there anything else involved in this stage other than the computer tests?
2.- Once you begin your training, what is the main "big book" used as study material?. I´m an AEW Air Battel Manager and during my training we worked a lot on ICAO material, so I expect as much. But is there a specific text book they work on?. I´d very much like to get a grip on it.

Thanks a lot buddy!

Yes. Stage two is purely aptitude.

STAGE 1
 

Anyone got their stage 1 in the morning in Prestwick?

Hi, I noticed on the NATS website about being tested on speed distance time questions. Is that part of Stage 1? Maybe I over looked it, thought it was just the motivation paper questions with the spatial reasoning, diagramming and basic checking.

Niall, the SDT questions are part of Stage 1. I would recommend some practice as this is an area a lot of people seem to have difficulty with.

NiallD

yes there are alot of speed/distance/time questions in the second part of the 1st set of tests.

I did mine last Friday and you were given 18minutes to answer 30 long winded questions!

good luck

Email address
 

Hi guys,

I'm just wondering whether anyone knows the email address I should send my education certificate to? I've looked online and can only find the email for the occupational health department. Also the guys who have had confirmation of their security clearance, how long did it take before you received this confirmation?

Many Thanks
GavDarv

after a fail at nats you have a period of 12 months to wait does this apply to eurocontrol as in failing nats then applyin to eurocontrol ?

when you guys talk about stage one, are you referring to the online (at home) tests that you complete immediately after submitting your application form? does anyone else have any useful info on this as I have mine to do asap

Hi

Sphil your msg was real encouraging..
I have my stage 1 on 23 july...
am preparing!!! ooopppsss a kinda scared..

well abt the ATC document???
we have quite a number of aircraft details in there.. can someone suggest a way get those into my head... real confusing..

@PA22 : Stage 1 referred here is not the one you take at home..
its the one after that... you schedule a date with NATS and take up the test in one of the centres..
:):)

NATS selection process feedback
 

WbATC
 

Try not to think about memorizing all the aircraft details for stage 1, but try and group the aircraft. Like large, medium, small aircraft, and also what flights they would make e.g transatlantic, european and so on.

Hope that helps.
rsk

Out of curiosity, do the dates listed in the doc for things like the introduction of the NOTA matter, or is it just to pad out the doc with specific info?

Four King Cubes
 

Good afternoon,

With the ntention of signing up for some NATS testing hilarity later in the year, I'd like to practise some Cubes. I'm aware that I could be less lazy, and make some for myself, but I'm looking to achieve something different.

Is there a "trick," other than the rubber, to ensuring that you get a correct answer? I'd like not to cheat if possible, but there has to be some sniff of logic the the puzzles. If not, does somebody have a book or something full of Cubes to practise with?

Cheers,
Adam

If you cheat you will get caught and you will get chucked out, with no option to return ever again. Quite rightly so. The tests are not perfect but they are there for a reason. If you have to cheat, you are not suitable for the job.

There is logic to the puzzles, that is why they are included...

You have not applied yet, so if you are worried about the cubes, why not get some paper and scissors and cut yourself out all the different shapes that can be folded into cubes, then practice?

If you can't be bothered to do that when it seems that you do have a doubt about your spatial reasoning then, again, you are probably not suitable for the job.

Beware of what you write on PPRuNe - lots of people in the business read it - even the Chief Exec of NATS... there aren't going to be that many 'Adams' from Farnborough that apply to join NATS within the next couple of years... there are many traits within ATC, but mention of cheating is not a trait that will be welcomed by any of your future interviewers or instructors!

Anotherthing,

I have applied previously, and some kind person in HR pointed out to me that my "spatial reasoning could've been better," hence I know that I have issues with Cubes. I have no intention of cheeting whatsoever, and I also have no issue with a member of staff at NATS reading what I write here. Honesty is the best policy: Adam from Farnborough IS coming to town to play with some Cubes at some point, and Adam from Farnborough IS quite worried about his Cubes.

The intention of this thread wasn't to boycott the cubes, it was to attempt to find the best way for me to practise, without me having to make the Cubes myself. If I make the Cubes, I know how they work. If somebody else does, I actually have to work it out. All I'm asking is to be pointed in the direction of some cubes before I attempt to make some myself.

Cheers,
Adam

Not a problem Adam, it's just a worry when someone mentions cheating when it comes to the tests, even if in jest... you have to be very careful what you write nowadays as it may be taken literally... it is very difficult through written word on an internet forum to gauge how a comment was intended.

Making your own cubes for practice is in no way cheating - if it helps you to understand the mechanics behind the folds, then it is worth doing... otherwise you may never know whether the answers you arrive at using a 3rd parties cubes was by luck or by skill.

As an aside, I always recommend to people 'test your own IQ' books, just to get your brain workng in a logical way. The test are timed so add pressure... I used them, whether they actually worked or not I do not know, but they never did me any harm. The author 'HJ Eysenck' if you search on Amazon, was the ones I used but others are available..


Good luck when you take the tests again.

When I went through the selection process my local library had some books with numerous examples of the cubes, and other pattern recognition used in these types of tests. I found them extremely useful to use in preparation for the NATS selection tests.

I can't remember the books (it was several years ago) but would suggest taking a trip to the library and seeing what they have.

mingmongaloo

am equally curious on that.. :(

@mingmongaloo
@WbATC

When I sat the exam there were no questions relating to those dates regarding NOTA.

Hi all,

I applied for the first time last year, got through to the third stage, then was turned down. I've since talked to the ATCO that showed me around NERC, and she assured me that only a miniscule percentage get through first time, so come September, I'll be starting the whole process again. Just relax, and try to keep a cool head. If you chill-out, results will come! :cool:

Did my Stage 1 yesterday, was a mixed bag. Absolutely aced the ATC test, was so pleased with it, did well on the numeracy test, then got to the cubes. Oh god. I really, really doubt I've passed it. So annoying as I know I've done well on the other three tests.

hi all

in case i get throught the first level of assessment in stage 1.... when will the second level of assessment be conducted... (spatial and diagramming) ???