Found out on Friday that I passed stage 3, so pleased!!! :) Hasn't quite sunk in yet but no doubt it will soon, especially when they get around to giving me a start date on the course!

Fretwanger - I'm gutted to hear that you didn't make it past Stage 3, I felt certain you would! I'm guessing you couldn't have been far off so all the best for when you re-apply. I don't suppose you heard about anyone else who did Stage 3 on the same day as us did you?

pat42

I'd have to disagree with you on this. You can pass or fail it therefore it is a test.

one definition of a test is ''Any standardized procedure for measuring sensitivity or memory or intelligence or aptitude or personality.''

I would, however, agree that you should not try to cheat it. Be honest. Companies are obviously investing in psychometric type testing for a reason. If you somehow answer it how you think NATS would like it answered and pass, you may be found wanting later on in selection. Worse, at Bournemouth. Worse still, and this could have safety implications.

I wonder how some of the old timers would fare in these tests? Most of the people I worked with in ATC were partly nuts and there were some very diverse personalities. I suspect many would not have got through, but they were all excellent controllers.

After selection, my course was used to act as guinea pigs for a personality test, both at the start of the 3 year course, and again at its conclusion. We were told it was anonymous, but that didn`t stop a couple of us putting each others names on the answer sheets.

NATS Presonality Test? Is this some jind of oxymoron? :ok:

Cottam Approach,

I guess it depends on your definition...

I would venture away from considering it a test as it is not as if there is a right or wrong answer to each question, and it is not as if there is a pass mark that you are trying to reach by answering the questions "correctly". Instead the way these kind of questionnaires tend to work is that an analysis of your answers allows the company (or whoever you are sitting the questionnaire for) to develop a profile of the kind of person you are, particularly with reference to; your prefered methods of work, how you relate to other people, how you handle stressful or challenging situations etc.

I have a friend who carries out these kind of assessments professionally and it is quite astonishing how accurately they can profile you and understand your behaviours and what makes you tick, even down to issues that seemingly have nothing to do with the questions you were asked to form that profile.

I would generally argue that the questionnaire itself is not something which you can "fail". Its a tool the company use to aid them in their selection process. Depending on the picture of you that this tool gives them they may decide that you are unsuitable, thus you might fail selection as an outcome of the questionnaire, but this is not the same as failing the actual questionnaire itself. All possible results of the questionnaire are entirely valid, although if I had to hazard a guess I'd imagine that there may be a statistical basis for thinking that candidates fitting certain types of profile are less likely to make successful ATCOs and thus NATS may disqualify certain candidates on this basis. I would still suggest that this isn't so much an issue of "failure" as it is of unsuitability for the role or the demands of the job. "Failure" suggests that a candidate is not good enough in reference to certain skills or aptitudes (or something to that effect), where as a candidate may be perfectly good enough and possessive of all the necessary skills and abilities yet unsuitable for a whole range of other reasons (potential to be adversely effected by stress, potentially unlikely to put in the necessary degree of work, personal issues, health issues.... to name but a few possibilities).

I would of course entirely agree with your point that anyone who is successful through dishonesty at this stage is likely doing themselves a disservice and may well be found wanting (with potentially serious consequences) at a later stage.

Can anybody suggest any reading materials they found valuable before they started out on the application process? i'm goin to apply in the new year and I have read a few books and things but am determined to leave no stone unturned in being succesful!

Thanks for all the posts as well a real help so far!

"Air Traffic Control" - Graham Duke

Quite a nice little introduction, though seems to contradict the material NATS provide for the ATC motivation paper on a couple of points which might be confusing if you read it before stage 1 :\

If you can organise it then the best education you can get would be to visit a few ATC facilities.

What ever you do don't watch Pushing Tin, its wholely unrealistic (though a good bit of fun).

Thanks Pat42, I like one scene in particular but we won't go into detail!ha

I've just finished reading it and it is a nice little intro, i'll just do thorough prep for the test and study the material and I should be ok!

congrats on getting through bet your glad you're not at the begining again it sounds quite daunting!

I did this in 1990 for NATS and remember being told to answer truthfully because some of the questions were asked half a dozen different ways and this was spread throughout the 350 or so questions. Do not answer the questions by putting in an answer that you THINK they want you to say, it will not work.

Good luck :ok:

Good post Pat 42. You sound like one of those fluffy 'modern science' grads with a sociology or psychology degree or suchlike! :ok:

I'd have to say it's all semantics. Whether you describe it as unsuitability or as failing doesn't really matter. You wont get into NATS either way so on that basis i'm sticking with it being a test. In the same way that your aptitude might be 'unsuitable' if you don't get through thoses 'tests'!

I refer you back to the dictionary definition of a test ''Any standardized procedure for measuring sensitivity or memory or intelligence or aptitude or personality.''

Ask someone who didn't get in because of it and see if they thought it was a test or not!

Pat42 and DIAF I have been thinking about most of the questions and if you don´t care could you tell me what you responded when they ask you "why do you want to be air traffic controler?" I´ve thought a lot about it.Thanks a lot.

Another one "Can you think of a time when you've broken or bent the rules?"

cdorricott
Thats rather disconcerting for future re-applicants like me, did you think you'd performed well or the same/better than your previous stage 1?

cdorricott or any recent stage 1 candidates:
Do they still use the old looking SHL test booklets for the spacial (cubes) and diagramming tests or have they changed? I know the motivation test booklet is made by NATS not SHL.

Noroll
 

Erm, I think... if there is any question that you have to answer at the interview is that you wrote above... Why do YOU want to be an atco?

For the second post, you can tell for the assessors a story about once a time you did not take back the teddybear to the shelf and you were punished :}

Hi Wild78, I guess you're real name begins with an A! Congratulations, I'm really happy you got through I think you'll do really well at the college and wish you the best of luck. I haven't seen anyone else post so I'm not sure. I was told by NATS that I didn't miss the mark by a huge mark and although my interviews thought I was a good guy they had to mark me on the competencies required.

T250, from my experience, my answers simply weren't good enough there wasn't enough substance to them and didn't really tackle the competency they were marking me on - I also waffled quite a lot. I was told this by NATS and to be honest I can see why they marked me the way they did. There was also a point at the beginning of the team exercise where I opened my big mouth before reading the rules, Wild78 you'll remember this - we were given 3 objects each and had to condense them down to 10 common items between all of us leaving 5 spare objects. I asked ' well we have these spare ones here, why don't we use these' to which the other guys said 'because we can only use 10'. I was definately marked down for this so just look before you leap.

Remember its a team exercise, I noticed something that none of my other team mates noticed and although I failed to mention it for the best of reasons - because i thought everyone else had already noticed it - although I never got marked down for this it could have showed me as a non team player.

I would be interested in finding out how the other 3 did.

Anyway I'll not be giving up, Thanks for all the words of support guys, only 9 months to go WOO!!!

Thanks for the replies regarding the personality questionnaire.

What I also want to know is why the test centres have changed throughout the year?
My Stage 1 is at Prestwick in December but reading this thread, I have noticed that they used Manchester as a test centre (where I live) earlier in the year.

Also, is it just Stage 1, they do not pay expenses for?

Andrew,

For a while, only Swanwick was used for Stage 1 - it's a cost-cutting thing primarily. Selection sessions were previously held all over the place but this often involved bookings for meeting rooms in hotels, etc and so this was stopped to save money.

Definitely no expenses for Stage 1, and I think it's the same for Stage 2 now, but get someone who's been through the process more recently than me to confirm that.

HD,
Allegedly, many years ago, 2 SHL bods observed ATCOs for a month with a view to developing 'selection tests'.
At a subsequent presentation, most of the the observed ATCOs (some of whom were ex-aircrew), couldn't do the tests the SHL bods had devised.

Is it really a good idea to be putting the questions on here from
the Stage 3 interview?

Hi all, just thought that I'd introduce myself here in order to say thanks to all those who have shared their experiences on here. It's been great getting an insight into what to expect at each round and really helped to prepare myself. I've got my Stage 3 next Tuesday so I'm busily preparing myself, if anyone out there's also going down there next week it would be nice to hear from you.

cdorricott

hey, i got also gor my results and also not good. quiet gutted to be honest as id prepared alot and was happy with what i had done on the day, just shows you never know, heres to a 12month wait if i dont give eurocontrol a blast!

Norrol,

I'm not sure me giving you my answers will be particularly helpful... they want to know about you, so you need to be able to talk about your experiences and why you want to be an ATCO.

To be honest mate I think you're overthinking it a little. You can't have the entire interview rehearsed in your head before you get there because you never know exactly what they will ask you or how they will word the questions. Just think of as many solid examples of situations and circumstances you have been in to do with the various competencies and you'll do fine. At the end of the day if you have what they are looking for then that should shine through, if you don't then it won't, you need to prepare but you also need to realise that you can only do so much and that they will always throw one or two curveballs on the day that are designed to put you on the spot and will be things that you won't have prepared for before hand.

I told them there's a history of ATCOs in my family and also airplane interests. Really didn't talk too much about this question.

Agree with Pat42. Don't over-think it. Easy to say, I know, but you will seem much more authentic and believeable if you don't plan every sentence.

Thanks everybody.I´ll try not to overthink.

Hi,

I also found out last Fri I passed stage 3 !

Those guys who have passed around the same time as me, looks like
Pat42,
Lizplt
Wild78,
congratulations !
But do any of you know when you are penciled in to start if the medical and references go smoothly ? It is so I can give my current employer a rough estimate of the time I have left in my current job!

I emailed HR last Mon but no reply and no answer when i call ! I just can't get hold of a human being ! I know they are uber busy, I just want to beat NATS to speaking to my boss about me resigning before they do about references!!

Anyone know when they contact references ?

Tom

Hi Tom,

I think you have to wait until after medicals and reference processing before they'll give you a date... that said, at my stage 3 one of the HR guys told us we would probably be put on the June course if we got through. Will also depend on whether you want area or aerodrome - there are no aerodrome courses until June (I think) and apparently that is already full up because the Jan aero course was recently cancelled.

If I were you I'd just be honest with your boss; let them know its coming but that you don't know the exact dates yet.

They're quoting a 6-9 month wait to get on courses at the moment, so you could be a while :\

Also, congrats to all that got through Stage 3!! :D

Had it yesterday, gruelling..

References
 

Just to let you know, I start in February and they still haven't contacted my boss for a reference, they do it about a month before you start so no need to tell anyone your leaving yet, you'll get pencilled in after you pass your medical but as some people have recently found out even this date could be moved in certain circumstances so don't shoot yourself in the foot by handing any any notice.

Congrats on passing :ok:

Earliest date finishing now I think it's May-June

Moravcik25: when did you pass your medical? Just to make calculations between finishing date and course starting date.

Thanks for the replies guys.. really useful info !

Just booked my medical for tomorrow.

It seems pretty daunting... is it as scary as it sounds ha ?

Tom

Pray the Doc has warm hands? :}

haha - oh yer, i will be praying !!

I can't believe the waitng list to get on the courses .. wow !!

Congrats on passing! I emailed them too but no reply yet either. Can't wait to escape my current job! I've got my medical on the 4th so maybe I'll know soonish if I pass. I love the "wear appropriate underwear" comment on the invite to medical email. I'd pay good money to see someone wear those borat pants there.

-
 

hi guys and gals,

do you have any idea how often NATS does start the courses? I read the last few posts and noticed that the next courses will start in June or later. Is true for the Aero only or both Area and Aero?
I'm worrying now a bit cause my plan was to go for stage 1 in the first half of 2010, but as it seems NATS have enough ATCO-s till doomsday :(

medical
 

Santomotion
Passed my medical 30th September, got my start date the following day, so once you get it it's pretty quick, I needed to wait to get my CAA medical though as I had a problem with an eye test at the Nats medical.
I don't think waiting till May/June is that unusual, I know a few people that have went through the process and it seems to be the average time to wait on a course

Piqla,

They normally start the courses four times a year: one in Jan/Feb, one April/May, one June/July, and one Oct/Nov. But the courses get booked up quite far in advance, so its not just a case on starting the next course after you pass, you have to wait until the next course with spaces.

As it is about a 6-9 month wait at the moment, and considering selection takes about 3 months, I'd recommend applying a good 9-12 months before you'd actually like to start.

If you want to do Aerodrome its looking even longer at the min. Far too many people want to do aero and NATS seem to have decided they don't have a very large need for aero controllers right now - the Jan course for aero has just been cancelled, and I believe the November course that should have just started was cancelled as well (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)... so aero's got quite a waiting list :\.

stage 2
 

Hi all

Just had some good news, just passed my stage 1, so have to book my stage 2 and do the online tests.

Looking at the timetable I have the option to either book it for next Tuesday or have to wait 3 weeks for a slot. Obviously I am eager to move on with it all but not sure whether I should delay it and go for the later option in order to allow me to prep.

Looking through what everyone is saying (if Im not mistaken) stage 2 is just a massive bunch of tests (which you are either good at or you arent), there doesnt appear to be anything you need to learn (e.g any kind of motivational test) or any interview to prep for so with this in mind I'm thinking of getting it out the way as soon as possible.

Could anyone whos done their stage 2 recently give me their thoughts and opinions on this ? am i missing something?

Many thanks