LL controllers in SUN EFPS shocker
 

Nearly spat out my cornflakes this morning, reading a discraceful piece of journalism in The Sun about EFPS. Every word like CRASH or DISAPPEAR was in bold.

EFPS has been in use at Swanwick for many years now, is there really a problem at LL or is it just the Union trying to justify more pay?

Widger - read the story properly - its complete sun tosh. Controllers on over £100k?? A tower controller crashing A/C over the channel in training?? Christ TC area controllers rarely venture 'feet wet', never mind heathrow tower.

Another quality article that the great unwashed will beleive in it's entirety.
PS. when will Heathrow ever stop being the "World's Busiest Airport"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_airports_by_traffic_movements has Heathrow at a lowly 15th.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "busiest".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%2...senger_traffic


CTG.

Does this mean that you think that there are no concerns at Heathrow regarding the 13th of January? I mean, a new tower, on a new location, a new computer system and EFPS all on the same day? Never mind the quality of the newspaper, it is quite a lot isn't it?

Widger

Last time i looked at my paper flight strip board at Swanwick, EFPS wasn`t in

Well I think in this conext we're talking about the opportunities for controllers to create the inevitable, tragic carnage in the sky. ;)

Good luck. :eek:

Another thing,

I know it's complete Sun tosh....read my post carefully! The point is, no smoke without fire. Is this a case of not wishing to move with technology?

Floydie...

thats why there will be flow restrictions. The guys at heathrow are receiving training for all you mention. A new tower - so what. New location - so what. A new computer - the engineers should have tested that to the nth degree. EFPS - perhaps the biggest issue, but should still be OK once the guys and gals get used to it, even though it is a big change.

There will always be misgivings about change, but not to the scaremongering that piece of toilet paper dramatically reports.

Widger -

get some work done - we must be crossing posts!!

I don't think its a case of not wanting to embrace new technology... I thinlg its a case of the Current Bun not wanting to embrace true news.

From the sunonline
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006540489,00.html

Our whistleblower said: “Senior controllers aren’t just warning that there might be a mistake — they are insisting there WILL be a crash if this changeover goes ahead. These people are not militant union types who can’t handle change, they are the creme de la creme of air traffic control.
Its nice to see that they don't have any issues with their egos as well as their strips......:rolleyes:

creme de la creme? Must be true if it's in the Sun.

What, the sour stuff that always floats to the top?

So nothing to worry about eh? Everything is taken care of to everybody's satisfaction? Just another busy day at the office.

Bloody hell... some people want us taken back into the dark ages. It's not witchcraft you know!!:}

I know 'cause you're not witches are you? Cannot work magic though.

?????
 

While we're on the subject of news, does anyone here have any idea why there appears to be a news blackout regarding the successful introduction of SAATS at Prestwick. No staff notices, no warm congratulations from the GM, no headlines on NATSnet - what's going on????? For heavens sake Paul Barron letting off a silent one in his office usually makes it on to NATSnews!!!!

I've worked in ATC for over 25 years, and we've just had EFPS installed here at EGGW. I know we don't have the amount of traffic as EGLL, but then again we don't have the amount of staff or working positions either.
Yes I was sceptical and concerned about the change too, but I have to admit that the system does actually work. It does make life easier and quicker.
EGLL controllers are right to be worried about the change, but they will be surprised about how easy the system is to operate in the real world.
As for the assistants, they have nothing to do now. They are the ones who should be worried about its introduction.

Whats wrong with a chinagraph and pinboard?:ouch:

Just because NATS has units north of the M25 doesn't mean they deem them important or newsworthy. If you ain't one of the flagships then forget it.

100 movements an hour????

Ermm they must mean arrivals and departures.

How many DEPARTURES an hour is the point as I would have thought that is where the EFPS is used...(out of interest how many at peak rate LL guys?)

They use EFPS in YYZ tower aswell and as far as I am aware there are no problems whatsover (and at peak rate they sure chuck em out).

For once NATS is actually changing something that will make its operation more effective.

That very much remains to be seen. We'll revisit this topic in one year! :E

Perhaps if you just embraced it rather than fighting it !!!
Maybe its just a capacity thing???

SAATS is a major achievement and the staff responsible need to be congratulated. In the same way that a NERC build makes the intranet!!

EFPS seems to work very well at the airports that have it, and are used to it. Ask the Gatwick controllers if they want their old paper strips back!

What is the "new computer system" at Heathrow? Do y'all mean A-SMGCS?

Sorry!! Meant to give an example of positive EGLL attitude;
"That very much remains to be seen. We'll revisit this topic in one year"
I know the problem can EFPS not cope with the old check at the Delta's:confused: :confused:

viaEGLL, please come over and tell us how to do it.

That is exactly what it is. There are some safety issues, and lots of capacity issues.

Are you talking about the controllers or EFPS???

How can you separate ATCOs and the flight data display system in terms of capacity? EFPS means I have to use more of my capacity to keep track of the picture and what's going on. Is it me? Or is it EFPS?

if you simplify EFPS then there is less of a capacity issue as EFPS cannot replicate all actions therefore you may have to change how you operate slightly. Other units have adapted somewhat, why can't yours?;)

I have been told that EFPS considerably improves situational awareness, is that not the case? I also understand that there are a few problems that are not really an EFPS problem, more the other system it communicates with. That will be fixed really soon.

We are adapting, that's the problem. Capacity is decreasing because of it. In an effort to minimise that ATCO capacity decrease, we are losing our flexibility, especially on GMC, which means more delays for a/c.

In what way does EFPS lessen ATCO capacity in GMC? A strip is a strip, regardless. Is is not an ATCO coordination problem rather than EFPS itself?

I'm sorry guys, I was in a good mood an hour ago. I'm depressed now just thinking about it. That's it for today. Maybe tomorrow. :ugh:

AHHH !!

I will be thinking about all the hard work you do when i'm on FIN this weekend:ok: :ok: :ok:

Surely though Gonzo there will always be a degradation in delivery whilst a new system is being introduced. It's only natural. When you have had a chance to use it and get used to it and adapt your methods (unfortunately you will have to adapt your methods), you may well find it enhances your operation.

Doing things the old way - especially with tactile strips - is very comforting. Sometimes we as human beings need to be taken out of the comfort zone to develop.

I truly hope it works for you guys as it has done for other units. There are trying times ahead for all of us as capacity continues to increase with little or no new resources (i.e. plain old concrete on which to stick an A/C)

Leaking a story to the Sun, what is the world coming to? When I was a lad only the Times or Telegraph would have been the way to go!

What next the LHR GM on page 3?

Maybe this an indication of the way things are going, leaking appears to be rife (often from management onto staff?) in NATS, latest heard is that at least some LHR controllers are apparently hinting that for a £10K payment the problem could go away?

If thats the case, glad I only operate out of LGW.

"Maybe this an indication of the way things are going, leaking appears to be rife (often from management onto staff?) in NATS, latest heard is that at least some LHR controllers are apparently hinting that for a £10K payment the problem could go away?"

Hey, if you don't ask you don't get! The 10k should cover nicely the extra 15-20 mins a day it takes to get into the new tower. It's part of the working day, shouldn't they be recompensed for it?

Sky News slant on the story
 

Words cannot express how much reading this absolute trash is boiling my piss.

See the next time I get accused of being unfair when attacking journalists, I'm going to link this thread.

Sky and The Sun, hang your damn heads in shame.

When the Gatwick SMVCR was built airside in the 1980s, staff were inconvenienced - their travel time to work increased. Did they bleat on about it ad nauseum? No. Did they expect remuneration for it? No. Did they accept that this was inevitable change, face the front and just get on with it? Yes.
When the Gatwick SMVCR was surrounded by concrete in the 1990s, staff were further inconvenienced - their travel time to work increased again. Did they bleat on about it ad nauseum? No. Did they expect remuneration for it? No. Did they accept that this was inevitable change, face the front and just get on with it? Yes.
Ignoring for a moment the argy-bargy surrounding EFPS (separate issue), I'd be grateful to know why Heathrow staff faced with a move to the NVCR feel that they should expect special treatment when their colleagues at Gatwick faced with similar circumstances got cock-all - twice.