Completely agree with the above comment. It's a brave new world ... until automation

There won´t be automation in our lifetime. Too many unknown variables, no computer in this world can calculate with these, especially down low.

Great time for jobs mobility in the UK as the Nats monopoly is breaking up. No doubt there'll be more to come!

I joined ATC at LATCC in June 1971. At Christmas that year I was told by a person who owned some sort of computer company that I was facing an uncertain future as computers would make ATCOS redundant within a few years. I completed 37 years as an ATCO in 2008 & have been retired since then. In those 45 years ATCOS have been, & are still doing, basically the same jobs in the same ways. I know that there has been a gradual introduction of various computer aided tools & systems, but how long will it take before ATCOS really are redundant ? I don't think that I will ever see it !

Of course there will be automation. There already is.

We pass 90% of our airways clearances with no ATCO interaction at all.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out where the intention is for the future. Whether it's deliverable in the desired timescale is another thing.

Yes, gonzo. I appreciate that sort of thing, pointsmerge , CPDLC etc. And I know that these innovations will continue; & gather pace. But, the point of my question is , how long will it take before the ATCO is no longer sitting in front of the RADAR taking the decisions ? Any idea ?

KC... It must have been 45+ years ago when I was working GMP in the tower a bright chap came and sat next to me. "What are you up to?" I asked. "Replacing you with a computer chip" was the reply. I told him he would be better off working out how to run the EG list on a chip. Never heard nor saw him again...

Sorry kcockayne, wasn't aiming my post at you.

But when you see what effect iFACTS has had on controllers over the years, in that the vast majority of the time the proposed resolutions are followed (and I'm prepared to be corrected), the controller will have fewer decisions to make, and fewer interventions.

I can see a similar transition in the future on Ground and Air in terms of departure sequence, the optimum sequence is presented to the controllers, and the 'best' taxy route is suggested.

HD, there are issues with it of course, and some of them are of our own making, but our kit is pretty good at determining an optimum departure sequence and from that the start order.

Controllers won't go away by any means, but the job at the major airports will be very different in 10-15 years than it is now.

Anyway, I don't want to get into this again. :ugh::}:)

We might be saved a while by airlines and airports being cheap. I work at a fairly busy airport and CPDLC is probably only used half the time, lots of airlines don't want to pay for it. And our kit in the tower is hardly cutting edge...

I'll be worried when some higher ups come in and declare they're going to invest loads of money in the operation.

Yes, all the Gucci stuff is not cheap!

Unless you only have a single taxy route and no run up areas to integrate with GA.

Hurrah for the minor airports - keeping their place as the best apprenticeship for controllers.

until it becomes cheaper than an ATCO. Units are run lean these days as SOP. . . the gap will become less as technology advances / becomes cheaper as it has already proven to do so.

Point merge, quite literally, is a complete waste of space.

I seem to spend increasing amounts making Camelot more profitable. Seems to be a theme at my unit. Bring on the automation I say!

Happiest bloke I know stacks bread on the shelves in our local Tesco, always smiling, always whistling a wee tune. Sometimes I envy him.

Pretty sure shelf stacking will be automated entirely before ATC :hmm::hmm::cool:

Happiest bloke I know stacks bread on the shelves in our local Tesco, always smiling, always whistling a wee tune. Sometimes I envy him.


Yep £7;50 an hour, happy as a sandboy and here's me at Swanwick 0n £110000 a year and totally p####d off, what a funny old world.

When I was younger my parents told me that money doesn't buy happiness, I'm starting to see they might have been (begrudgingly) right!!

When I was younger my parents told me that money doesn't buy happiness, I'm starting to see they might have been (begrudgingly) right!!

Watched aprog. on the box some time ago which was about billionaires and the super wealthy and the question was asked, are the super rich really happy, to which the reply was , probably not, but they are a lot happier than the super poor. The End.

You're obviously doing the wrong sector or (which would explain your p'doff-ness) Approach :E.

I'm at SWN too and happy as a pig in s*** 95% of the time......

Yes, it's easy to whinge about some of the going's-on but in the grand scheme of things, it's not worth getting the blood pressure raised over. I worry about the things I CAN change and shrug shoulders about the stuff I can't.....


SD

Back on Planet Topic,

Liverpool

One thing for sure, there's not been this many opportunities in the UK industry for a long long time....

If you're in TWR/APC and you're really not happy, now is the time to move on. Plenty of jobs out there!

Are NATS still doing ADI and APS courses.For some reason there is a big shortage and it's happened quite quickly.Seems more than the usual retirement,sickness,failure to validates shortages.

I think NATS knew they were going to short years ago and decided It would be a lot easier to get TWR guys during a shortage than qualified En route staff. (Hence dropping the TWR requirement at the college for area guys, to push more through) The Irony is that some of the TWR/APS guys being hired are ones that NATS trained but chopped after failing the Area course years ago.

Plus they have to find places for the folk who want to stay with the company when they lose contracts. Maybe another reason for not recruiting as many twr and aps recently. And this will only get worse if they keep losing contracts.

Baghdad...

It's interesting that this thread had an early reference to Baghdad (written supposedly in jest) but no real interest or curiosity expressed by UK ATCOs, whilst many are bemoaning life as an ATCO in the UK. I suppose it's likely because the word "Baghdad" suggests a nasty unsafe place to work but for those of us who've worked there it is / was entirely different than that (somewhat naive) view.

If you do your research you'd find that, from an ATCO's point of view, it's a very safe place to live and work (if you are an expat working for Serco and therefore living in the compound on the airport) and of course an excellent gig to put aside a LOT of money for a year or two (or even longer for some). For whatever reason there aren't many Brits or western Europeans working for Serco in Iraq -- but lots of Canadians, Americans, Icelanders, along with East Europeans, Ozzies, Kiwis, and some Latin Americans (GREAT mix for partying BTW...).

Certainly it's not for everybody but if you're an ATCO looking for change and challenge it's an idea that shouldn't be discounted just because of your initial reaction to the word "Baghdad".

Grizz

So why exactly is the money SO great? Must be due to the reasons, perceived/true/untrue or otherwise associated with Baghdad? :ouch:

Or are Serco there just particularly generous for absolutely no reason at all? :}

T250

Of course it's because of all the reasons / attitudes / risks (perceived or real) regarding Baghdad. Neither I nor anyone else would suggest otherwise.

And Serco (as with most ANSPs) is definitely not particularly generous.

I did a couple of years in Serco's unfortunately short lived Erbil contract a little way north of Baghdad and enjoyed it. I'd be keen to go to Baghdad but no vacancies in tower and I'm a bit short of radar experience. I've spent most of my career in tower and approach procedural environments.

Looks like Dubai TWR and APP at DWC are still looking. Heard a rumour that Serco contract in Baghdad was looking a bit shaky.

Guernsey now.

Throw a dyce

The Serco contract(s) in Iraq have been shaky since the first day (January 1, 2011).

For many reasons (politics, culture, other bidders offering a bit more grease, staffing issues, etc) it has never been a certainty that Serco will get the contract each time it`s up for renewal. And at some point (3 years, 5 years, maybe 10 years down the line) the intent is for the Iraqis to be able to operate ATC on their own. I make no comment as to the feasibility or likelihood of that happening...

Sam,
Yes I agree with you.Perhaps a more accurate way of what I heard was shakier,rather than the normal shaky.

Australian Tower jobs opening up again for their overseas exiles.

Interesting; I wonder if they'll begin recruiting non-Australia/NZ residents anytime soon?

Southend recruiting
 

Southend are looking for an ADI/APS rated ATCO.
London Southend Airport - Home

Hawarden recruiting again

Biggin Hill :ok:

Newcastle now.

Newcastle job link
Recruitment - Newcastle Airport

Oxford

https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/14...&cm=2017-01-27