Serco are hiring controllers for Iraq again.

Looks like a cut and paste of the job description from last year.

Advert on flight global website here.

Baghdad Hiring
 

hi guys
can any one tell me how serco hires
all i feel is that they only hire uk or white guys
is it true?

re: baghdad Hiring
 

I smell a conspiracy theory / hard done by / woe is me attitude here. Get over yourself.

Vectoraround - if you have the experience (and that really counts!) and the customer approves you then you're in. Many people forget it's not just whether Serco want you but if the ICAA like the look of you.

And the UK contingent is only the 4th largest here with 4 ATCO's.

Hey you Baghdad types
 

Is my old co-worker George, DEAD END, Rhodes still working over there?

George is still here.

The original job advert has been pulled. An updated listing with more info is now on the Flightglobal website.

Direct link here.

Pictures?
 

Does anybody have any pictures of the place. Accommodation / facilities etc. Would like to get a feel for the place. Is it a 6 on 4 off roster yet? Thanks.

Search for "The NEW Baghdad Hilton" on youtube...

Info on Serco Baghdad
 

The Acomodation is perfect. Good food, clean rooms, Base is between the 2 runways a little closer to the military one ( the shorter one) Security is excelent. All rooms (90) have AC, Microwave, satelite tv,one big bed. They have a big Gym fitted well, laundry twice a week, a tv room, and a big dinning room. 2 months ago they started to built a pool and a basketball court. Not finished yet. The base is owned by ...AL BURHAN GROUP. I came back home one month ago. Not worth the mony. Too RISKY! The radar dropped twice in a week . Frequencies... a joke. Procedures...some... If u look in Iraqs AIP u will see 5 NM all around. WRONG. It`s 20 NM.
The fact that made me return home were the working conditions. The ACC and APP are in the same room. They have 2 ACC sectors and 2 APP sectors in that room and another APP in another room. You will freze to death while on radar because they keep 3 AC units each of 18000BTU on full. After 2 hours your feet are numb. The program should have been...2 day shifts,2 Evening,2 Mids,1 Sleep day,3 days off. It`s not. Only 1 day off. I worked 10 weeks and 2 weeks off.

Almost 70% of the controllers are American. The other 30% ...Islanders, New Zeelanders,Australians, South Africans, Spanish, British, Romanian, Macedonian,Panama.

Most of them if not all are retired. This is not a permanent job. 4 maby 6 months. After that..u r done.

SnakeKiru
 

I've been thinking about sending in an application. How long were you over there and how long did it take you to qualify?

hey "C"...glad you made it home okay..as a retired.....correction....Resigned ATCO I feel justified in rebutting some of your points

yea mostly, food is always about chicken...chicken for lunch, chicken for dinner day after day after day after day after day...well you get my point.

yea the accomodation is good, but then it hasn't rained yet (for about 6 months) judging by the amount of sand I get in my room when the wind is blowing I'm thinking....flood...having said that you are correct, we have the rooms serviced every day of the week, they are comfortable, room to swing a cat, and an ensuite. I, probably like the others, like my room and I make it my home away from home.

Correct...and don't forget the Bar........

Correct

Room for inprovement as was highlighted the other day

Only twice???

yes and no....when the fibre network is working its fine.....when it gets shut down and your using VSAT its ****....procedures....yes possibly right ..there are many in place at present and it 'seems' to work

I think your getting confused with LOA's .....separation in Iraq airspace is as per ICAO DOC 4444 and the ..rest of the world..5NM and 1000ft. The LOA'S however between Iraq and the 'other' countries bordering this place insist on 20nm between 2 aircraft same level. So, in conclusion everything coming into Iraq at the same level is or should be 20nm apart and everything leaving Iraq airspace at the same level is or should be 20nm apart......to achieve that we use 5nm or 1000' seps to climb or descend etc..just like every other country.

High level is in one room (240 and above)
Low level is in the other room (Kirkuk, Ali and soon Baghdad approach)
The exception is Samarra which is in the 'High' Level room

during the day you are hot, during the night you are cold......you actually work this out within about a month of working here and so you adjust your clothing to suit the shift you are on and on the mids you bring an extra piece of clothing. If this is an issue then you are to precious to be here.

Correct...this is an issue and highlighted at a recent staff meeting. I believe most of us are agreeing that there is nothing to do here so will continue this cycle but management are looking at more leave and less time between leave breaks.....wait and see situ

by Islanders I presume you mean Icelandics ..now I'm trying to do this off the top of my head
Icelandic = 8
New Zealand = 2
Australian -2
Spanish =1
Romanian = 1
Macedonian =1
Panama = 1
British = 4 (not including any management but including a Scotsmen)
Canadian = 3 (not including management but including a Lebanese Canadian)
American = 17

While I probably have forgotten someone at any rate the % is around 50 percent.

The Americans have some compulsory system that I don't understand with regards retirement. The rest of us have resigned from our former employers and the age bracket is low (under 55}

Don't quite feel 'done' yet and its been 9 months but hang on...I'll just go knock on the door of someone who has done 3.5 years......back soon....yep he is still almost sane


The Bond is louder than actions. Over

Does approach control have the right to put 3nm, or are those part of the "procedures still to come"?

Thenoflyzone

Bearing in mind the Approach sectors, as done at the moment, are approx 200nm x 200nm, displayed on 26" displays, the chances of 3nm are non-existent in the current environment / configuration.

Not that the traffic density needs it - 5nm is fine and, more importantly, comfortable.

Can you scale up/down there and do you have vector function over there?:confused:

Jobs
 

I don't suppose there is much chance of a 60 year old Tower Controller who is bored sh@%*ess with his present job getting a gurnsey? (previously held radar appch and en-route but now lapsed)

Info please
 

I have sent in my CV and have an upcoming interview. I have seen the youtube video which shows the camp area. As to working conditions, I'm assuming three shifts ?? and what is the on/off rotation? What sort of radar and communication equipment are you using and are they reliable? Do you cross qualify in all areas if you have multiple ratings? That's it for now - thanks!

Yes the pay is correct 180K . Pays better the Midwest and you don't work 60 hours a week. Will be headed that way soon. Kabul is not for me. BTW the leave policy is much better with SERCO

CYAFAA info
 

what specifically do you want to know....happy to answer any questions but not the ....what's it like....how do you find it.....type questions as this only encourages opinion based answers, not factual.

factual?
 

kiwi,

hard to say what is factual about baghdad, but that is just my 'opinion'.

If you are qualified for radar, you should have little trouble getting hired in Iraq by Serco. They are losing lots of people here for various reasons, but I have heard many controllers say (that would be a fact) that they are frustrated.

equipment, quality of life, management, Iraqi culture, leave policies, safety, visa issues

and the list goes on and on

I would consider this a short term solution to any monetary issues someone may have. Not really air traffic control here (opinion)

ME

Wonder how many Americans will stay once the last US troops have left at the end of the year?

Yep, what will be the security situation at the ATC facility when the American troops pull out?:(

Security around here is more about appearances (IMO) than actually preventing anything.

two examples:

1. Water supplies not guarded when first put in. Huge tanks sitting outside camp, no one watching, anyone who wanted to could have unscrewed caps on top and put anything in.

2. mortar attack recently. management went to bunkers, some controllers never notified. Oh, and there are not enough bunkers for the people here. Oh, and no more are being built. ("bunkers do not really protect you...." heard said by mngt my me)

ME

ME
You obviously have an axe to grind - this posting in Iraq is optional - you can always leave if you hate it this much!!!!

But as we all know - applications accepted by Serco are vetted by the Iraqi's and they have the final say.

won't disagree but what I will say is you can either get caught up in it or you can just go what the f... and come to work, do the job as best you can and then get on the bus and go back to your room/bar/gym. For that you will (at the moment) get paid 530USD/day. I work in the approach room, on average I will work 6 hours of my 8 hour day on position so over 1 cycle I work 36 hours every 8 days. On conclusion of a year you would have been paid around 3730USD per week - tax free.


Totally disagree here....most ATC systems around the world now are so streamlined, regulated, x this point at this time, your slot is....etc etc its taken the enjoyment out of it. Actually having to think.

The ATC here below FL230 is pure ATC, its random, quiet,busy, frantic, frustrating......everyone (mostly) have to get vectors around the **** load of military aircraft flying around that are not on your freq. All departures, particularly out of Baghdad are on headings and you have to weave them through all the traffic on another frequency. Yes there are supposedly procedures but very rarely adhered to so you have to just work the traffic to make it work. Sorry, but I class this as being an air traffic controller. But then again - if you don't like it, you can always leave.

My intent was that some may ask specific questions about the work over here eg roster rotation, ratings, living, pay etc - things that I could give a factual answer to. I do not like to to influence people on a career change based on my opinion ie what I like or dislike here and printed may influence someone to apply/not apply when their likes/dislikes would differ from mine.

Well that came out of left field...........the water, FFS....everyone knows here the water from the tanks are for flushing your **** down the toilet and showers. If you use it for anything else....what can I say....there is so much bottled water here than you could shake a bottle water stick at. I use that for my drinking water, jug water, teeth cleaning water. The only other thing I know the tank supply does is the ice machines....and it goes through about 5 filters before it even gets to the frozen stage. Even if some scrotum drove up to the tanks outside the camp where the flood lights are on and the guards have a video on permanent camera out the front, and injected something into the water supply...ahh I'm just raving now....

By the way....big new bunker down by my room...what mortars you talking about? The ones on the military base some time ago or the controlled detonations the other night that only some of us were told about?

Some things to think about
 

Baghdadkiwi...some clarifications;
I am told by a recent escapee that you WILL hate it this much, and in a very short time. Anyone who does any research must surely know that, going in. It is a 'money grab', and that's it. On the topic of which...
- are you including your travel allowance and gratuity in your annual figure, and hence, other figures?
- are you neglecting to mention how much you will spend (be relieved of) to get in and out for those precious days out of country?
- is there any will to change the 6 on, 1 off 'cycle'? (anyone who has a job already should work out how much they will make working 6 on 1 off ad infinitum in their current job and see how much it works out to- and should probably think about employer pension/superannuation contribution as well).

Prospectives should probably compare other mid east gigs and determine if the Iraq 'premium' is acceptable (especially in a few months time without any US troops).

quite acceptable if you ask someone like me, with significant experience combined NATO/civil flights in the same area. Once USA troops had left, shine and bright day began for our aviation community. :}


(N.B. as long as there is French Air Forces ,USA troops aren't the worst.) :E

As per Qs about US troops, I thought the Gurkas looked after security at the compound?

Either way, **** that.

What exactly is the ICAA looking at in one's application?


Who knows.....its a complete mystery to all of us

What will happpen when the US troops withdrawal? Has Serco addressed that?

Yes they have....no one knows regards how the country will react


Does the US provide security at the airport?

No they don't - its a private company called G4S...the checkpoints we go through are Iraqi employed

Will Camp Victory closed after the withdrawal?

Not sure at this stage


Is there internet? how good is it, speed & reliability?

Yes...broadband wireless, its okay most of the time, can be a bit slow if everyone is downloading at the same time. I use it all the time to call home etc and never a problem


What type of phone do most use? Do phone data plans work, specifically Blackberrys or iPhones?

I use a Iphone Viber programe which means I can call home any time for free from both my abode or work. Skype is the same. Also have an Iraqi cellphone and number for emergencies so I can always be contactable. Works fine.

I've been told that rush trips out of Iraq can take a few days for a visa. Is that the visa "problem" you mentioned?

Visa requires giving up your passport for a few days while it goes into town to get 'stamped'. None of us like this but this is how it happens. If you need to get out 'quickly' there is a system in place where the camp manager here can go to the airport and get a 'get out quick' visa in 1 day.

What airline is best for travel?

Numerous airlines fly into baghdaddy....depends where you want to go to and all reputable airlines. I just paid for Emirates tickets for Jan vacation out of here, also you can fly Turkish, Jordanian, Iraqi, Global Jet, Etihad, Iranair, and a bunch of others that allude me now. As to the best.....well depends which side of the world your flying out too....eg most of the americans use Turkish to fly westbound to the states, same with the guys from european countries. I go the other way (thru Dubai). There is no problem getting out of here.


How is the coffee?[/QUOTE]

Pretty good.......

Plazbot.......you have been misinformed

193600USD is the total package tax free (at the moment)

No one really talks these days about the US troops not being here..and that being a stay/go issue. When I arrived at the beginning of the year it was all the talk and a concern particularly amongst the american controllers here. I haven't heard that concern for months ... its all been about working conditions.

you say a recent escapee tells you YOU WILL HATE IT...there in lies the issue with opinions that I was talking about earlier. There are issues but I don't hate the place and keep coming back after my leave.

The cost of flying in and out is part of that 193600USD. Depends on how you choose to fly out of here or what you do on your holiday as to how much you spend.

What else is there...yes the shifts, its been brought up time and time again...hopefully we are getting an answer this week from Serco management that addresses the issue of our work schedule..they have recognised that it is different over here and are addressing it. Whether or not something happens remains to be seen.....we are waiting.

1.How does validation is done? How long does it take? Are you get paid while on OJT?
2. Does anyone who used to work there, was able to get back to descent places?
3.How does an ANSP will look at your CV,when they see
BGW as your last employer?

Best regards.

My second question was part of a third. What I meant there, does someone,who worked at BGW for 3 or 5 years was able to get position at other ANSP when they left? But looking at answer on 3-rd I assume that,yes.

Back to Q.1. Validation up to me?:hmm: So there is no other requirement than those 2 weeks,or if you said it has been dropped no requirements at all? How long it took for you to validate?

How long is the leave 8 weeks on 2 off? Can you do 16 on 4 off?

Regards.

visa issues
 

Seems odd that someone who likes 'facts' so much did not want to provide the full answer. One controller had a relative very ill... he did not manage to get out in one day. Two? Noooo,

Want to rework this one?

This has not been everyone's experience. Some here have complained about the lack of both reliability and bandwidth here. Serco has gone to some lengths to improve the internet (already a warning sign IMO) and it seems to have worked. But I have heard many complaints of skype calls being so bad/dropped that the callers have given up. And not just by controllers, by management and outsiders here at camp also.

Quote:

---

What the f are you asking here???? Your english is very bad.

---

Seems like anyone who does not think BGD is issue free will feel the wrath of Kiwi on the forum

For someone who would like a few more facts. The 14 day certification time has not been 'dropped' it is just disregarded at the whims of 'whomever'. There have been blokes let go. If Kiwi wants to argue this, ask Serco to put it in writing and you will soon see the error of his thinking.

Just a few weeks ago, two controllers were sitting around the camp hours before their planes were to leave without a visa/passport. Ask them how they think the visa program appears.

All in all, I am staying for another 6 months to finish out the year, but not everyone is. This place has a frustration level that will overwhelm some, grind on others, and never seem to affect others. Like many of these appointments I assume.

ME

sorry it took a bit to post an answer to this, wanted to be sure of my 'facts'...

Asked the cooks how many bottles of water they used when they made the soup: after many confused looks= NONE

asked the dish washers how many bottles of water they used per plate/ per cup:
more confused looks=NONE

apparantly water is used for more than your loo. But just to be sure, I checked with security about water supply and now there are two separate areas. One area is locked up with concertina wire on back side (where the cameras are NOT). Guess you are not the expert, and some do think, including security that potable water should be safeguarded. Glad you are not in charge.

But the real question is: Are there enough bunkers for all the people here at the camp? (quick answer : NO) And are more coming? Seems not. To which management always seems to answer.... "the bunkers aren't really any protection anyway" Of course that did not keep them from occupying them during the mortar attack (not the controlled detonation-we all know the difference) while many controllers sat in their tin cans, unaware of any danger at all.

Since you like it, stay. Many here don't and are leaving at year end. Should be interesting since the present staff is already being asked to work well past 6 days in a row.

ME

my oh my. Did you break a nail precious?

you obviously have a good command of their language because you could tell them "your mother wears Jack Boots" and they will look at you and smile and say yes sir no sir.......they do not understand english, hence the confused look you talk about.

And I guess they spoke fluent english as well and knew exactly what you were asking. The tanks are in one area, separated by the compound wall ie most of the tanks are outside the wall..next to the guard hut and 2 or 3 tanks are inside the wall..but none the less they are all confined to one area. Yes I can see someone coming up in a car...pull up outside the guard hut...climb up on the tanks...under all the spot lights ....and put in..well whatever you think they are going to put in. Please...... I'll leave it up to you to find the rest of the negatives ...guess you will find a negative in the 10% payrise as well....and you say your staying for another 6 months - my.... how you must hate being here.

whatever

I said in my post that there was a system in place..didn't say it worked. Having said that it has worked for a number of people who have had to leave quickly and on a couple of occasions it hasn't gone to plan and they have had to wait for a day....but you just go ahead and reword that how you want...

If I was working out there, I would be a bit concerned about the beads in the windows. I think there are 7 by my count.

There are 3 bunkers on the Serco side of the camp...easily fit us all in spread between the 3..think standing space..you can cram a lot of people in to a confined area when all standing.

if you say so...from my point of view it hasn't been a problem, sometimes slow, but I mentioned about that. It may be dependent on where you are on the camp so I won't refute what you are saying other than to say it has not been my experience.

It might not be perfect and yes it is stressful waiting for your exit visa...but I have not heard of anyone missing their flight out of here due to a visa issue.

totally agree with you

its 12 months service not a Jan to Jan type thing, I don't know of anyone currently here who has tendered their resignation effective less than 12 months service.

Talk it up as much as you want. However, considering the flightglobal ad is offering 177k usd for a gig in Abu Dhabi, WHY would you go to Baghdad for the coin on offer?
Risk/reward- it's a no-brainer!