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Dubai / UAE
A few questions for yellow snow or anyone else working in UAE (relating to your post on the banding thread)
If the NATS pension is closed to new members I will probably be looking for a new employer.. - housing allowance - what would your monthly allowance get you in terms of rent/mortgage? - Bills - roughly what are the monthly bills such as electric, water, (council tax/rates?) etc - Cost of living - apart from fuel, what is the cost of living like compared to the uk? - Wives/family - do they generally find it quite easy to fit in (especially if they are used to working and suddenly they are a 'Jamera Jane'? - Success rate - is there much of a failure rate in validating or do they generally pick the people most likely to succeed? - Roster - is it a rolling rota so you know days on/off in advance + what is the annual leave entitlement? - Pension - is there any company scheme or do you make your own provisions? Thanks |
how do you go about enquiring?
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Yellow snow:
Do you know much about the ACC side of ops in uae? I have had trouble looking on the net. not really sure where to start. Does it provide service for all the uae? is there just one centre? What about the neighbouring countries? Is there a good working relationship with oman/iran/saudia arabia?You mentioned flights home. Is that one per year or more frequently? Also , I see all staff do the night shifts. Is this due to much of the traffic turning up during the night. (judging by uk departure t/o times anyway) thanks in advance |
Yellow Snow,
I take it they have the padded toilet paper? hope life treating you well out there! A/T:E |
Yellow Snow,
Good post and pretty accurate. Just 2 things: Salary (every ATCO earns the same) 34,089 AED PM (£5165) .....and do both radar and tower. :ok: RD |
yellow snow,
do you have the address/email to send the cv too regards MF |
Up to 2.5 hrs in position actually, though depending on the supervisor it's quite likely that a 2.5 hr stint will be paired with a late start or early go.
Andrex is available in the supermarkets, though sadly is not provided at work where it may sometimes be needed after a brush with CIS airmanship... :eek: As for housing, note that a villa which cost AED180,000 p/a to rent 6 months ago will now be offered at AED250,000 p/a or more. A recent arrival is paying AED240,000 or so for a 2-bedroom apartment. There is some hope among those who haven't bought that a correction is coming in the housing market, and with it might come a reduction in rental prices. In the meantime though, landlords here have a reputation for mercenary instincts. |
Providing the Mods don't mind and no rules are broken, then the email address is below:-
The boss is happy for the email address to go on here, but this is for Approach and Tower only for DXB and the new JXB airport not area [email protected] FAO Eric melvin I've got to disagree with you Scooby on rental prices, having only recently gone through it. 180-190K in JLT is about right, we've only paid 200k in The Links, for a new build 2 bed, 1600 sqft fantastic views and quality fittings. Looking in todays property pages, apartment rentals haven't changed a jot in the last 3 months, and there is good availabilty to keep it this way, as opposed to a villa where there is huge under supply. You may pay up to 240K to live on the palm, but that is an extreme. Agree with everyhting else, landlords here are greedy, evil, arrogant, ignorant, greedy, evil.....people, almost as bad as estate agents, who are just simply lazy and useless here |
Yellow Snow - I can only go by the advertised prices for the villa I'm currently sitting in! The same floorplan is now above 250,000, up from 160,000 at the start of the year and 180-190,000 six months ago. It is certainly not the fault of Serco that rents have gone crazy, and bringing in an increase earlier than expected shows a level of responsiveness that is rare in ATC management. Still, isn't it fair for an ATCO to expect to be able to afford a 3-bedroom, non-flashy villa?
Anyhoo, away from rental prices and whatnot, Dubai is a great place to work thanks to a cosmopolitan crowd who generally display a lot of humour and a great ability to support one another, especially when newbies are settling in. The work is challenging, and so is trying to last the evening after Friday brunch... |
yellow snow,
thanks for that Mf |
Thank you fellows for all the info on Dubai. Does anyone here know how Abu Dhabi compares to the Dubai package?
I did look into it about a year ago and it wasn´t enticing enough for me to pick up my tent and go there, but things in the financial world have really changed in the last 6 months up here and the exchange rate has more than doubled since the IKR is becoming worthless:-) Is the financial crisis having an effect in the UAE also or does money continue to flow from the ground? Best regards and Thank you, Trotsky BIKF APP/TWR Keflavík, Iceland |
Dubai authority
Hi, i will be applying for ATC training in March 09, but my dream is to travel with the job eventually after becoming qualified, what is the name of the authority, like NATS in the UAE, for ATC employment?
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Serco is the Dubai ATS provider under government contract. rossbrereton18 you need to walk before you run,ie: get validated get some experience then fly to whatever and wherever you fancy. Contracts in the Middle East require a minimum of 5 years experience but looking at the way Serco employs people its normally from the geriatric ward! Good luck to you in your career.
To those considering coming over here be ready to deduct a significant amount from you salary for accomodation unless of course you want to live downtown in a rundown flat. There are no taxes here but they are actually everywhere. Housing is just as expensive as New york (or more) now and the governtment is doing nothing about it. Many companies are relocating for this same reason as now its spiralling beyond control! |
I know of two people who have moved to dubai with less than 5 years experience so maybe they are loosening their must haves
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Hey Falcon,
geriatric? Speak for yourself old boy!! The average age of the Tower guys in Dubai is probably younger than at any Uk unit. The five year requirement is/was a Govt. requirement but if you have the proven ability then come and have a go!! |
Serco will and have taken ex NATS into DXB with only 3 years experience.
Falcon, as a newish recruit here, the line about having to use a significant amount of your salary for accommodation is simply rubbish, see my earlier posts about the quality and costs of a two bed apartment, certainly not rundown or in a crap area. However if we're talking about a villa, then I fully agree with you. |
Well Yellow Snow I beg to differ. I didn't come here to live in a flat with my family views or no views. A tiny villa in the springs is going at 200k. If you are paying 190K for your flat remember that 20k of your allowance is for utilities. For me any payment for rent accom is significant. In the contract I was promised accom and utilities paid and this is simply not happening. I know for a fact that people have turned down the contract for this reason. If you are happy to live in a high rise flat thats fine. But most people (me included) didn't come here to live worse than at home so paying for a "decent" accom for this purpose means forking out. It may sound snobbish but if we let Serco think that it can keep our accom allowances low so that it can put us up in apartments then that is not going to happen. You are new here so maybe you would like to ask around how the old guys here lived b4 the current situation set in. Its a matter of quality of living. Dubai is still a hole in the desert and simply an artificial mock up city with no soul so for me personally a good home means a lot. Its a matter of perspective I guess.
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Falcon - I would expect there to be an announcement in the near future which will make you somewhat happier. Serco management are aware of the housing situation and, I believe, would like to do something about it.
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Falcon
You may beg to differ, however, your comment was: To those considering coming over here be ready to deduct a significant amount from you salary for accomodation unless of course you want to live downtown in a rundown flat. I received a cheque for 190k from Serco and put another 10K in myself to get a fantastic 2 bed apartment that's far superior to the quality of accomodation I had back in the UK. Not sure what you mean about 20K utilities as I pay these bills myself, nothing to do with Serco. I agree 100% with you that we should all have the same standard of living, as those lucky enough to be in PS, eg a 3 bed villa, with good amenities in an excellent location with all bills covered by the company, and it creates bad feeling/envy/annoyance that this isn't the case. However unfair the above is, the facts are that Serco offer a very attractive overall package. I'd like to think we're singing from the same hymn sheet, but, however unhappy you are with the situation, bear in mind there are ATCO's all over the world equally unhappy with their situation, and I think it only fair that they get the facts not opinion about Dubai. All the best, YS |
Ever had ex-military come out and given it go?
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Coming out in January all info greatly received, yellow snow I have pm'd you.
Ta 10d:) |
YS I think it is still a matter of perspective. If you come from the U.K.where houses let alone flats are the size of shoeboxes, then an apartment here is a great improvement. As for the what I said about forking out you just confirmed it yourself. As to the combined utilities and accom allowance you have to refer to your contract. Your 180K includes accom AND utilities or ask Eric as this was stated by him (the figure of 20K) so at the moment you are short of 30K of what was promised in your conditions or about a months salary. Now you can argue that many people in the ATC world are worse off and I agree, its one of the reasons why we are all here. But hey who cares about the rest of the world (sorry ANSA).
Finally my point is this, if what Scooby Don't said and improvements do not materialise we will be shortly sliding back to pre January conditions (obviously it seems you were not here then). The package is good probably among the best in the world and we shouldn't settle for anything less at any time.Taking away a month's salary for accom (and I know some newbies are paying even more than this) is not acceptable. The money is there and if you are sceptical just ask around and see how much the new Airport Safety Mananger is getting for his toils. You will be shocked!!:eek: |
Not rising your challenge Falcon, old bean. :}
Direct no speed, you have email. All I would add is that the lie ratio from NATS to Serco is well in Serco's favour. Ultimately, we are free to get on with the job with little interruption, and I happen to enjoy the company of my colleagues. Except for Tower Ranger. He's a right wee..... And he know's I'm kidding, or he would except that I know for a fact he's currently getting rather drunk at the Atlantis! |
The accommodation allowance in Dubai is definately insufficient, irrespective of whether you are on a single/married with kids contract. Having been here 6 years now, I have had to fork out money all the years except the last year, and this is only because I live in the hood (not exactly run down, but definately not a fancy neighbourhood), and is protected by the rent cap. If I was to move out to lets say the marina/old town, you are looking at paying 220 ish for a 2-bed flat + utilities. In other words you would be forking out roughly 4 grand a month from your back pocket. Not saying that you can't afford that, but then don't call it an accommodation allowance, cause it gives a wrong picture of how much cash you have in your hand at the end of the day.
And as a few guys have mentioned, if you're looking to live in a villa, well then you would be forking out 10 grand a Month...... |
Pure speculation... however... some business types told me yesterday that a large amount of money is being pulled out of investments in Dubai... not because of a lack of faith in Dubai... but because it's needed elsewhere.
Which begs the question, what impact will this have in Dubai? At which point the answer offered was a forecast retraction in the Dubai property market. To what extent... no answer. |
Extremely useful info all round guys, thank you. I think you may well be inundated with NATS applicants if, as expected, the pension is wrecked.
Could any radar guys tell me where the approach radar is based for DXB and the new airfield...i.e is it co-located with Tower or are they both at a central unit? One other thing, and this is purely hearsay so I apologise in advance if its a load of b*llox...i read that the days of tax-free living in UAE may be numbered and that the govt were considering bringing in some form of income tax at some point in the future (i.e not the immediate future). Any truth in this? |
There have been rumours about income tax doing the rounds for years. In reality, the likelihood is VAT-type sales tax, to be phased in gradually.
Approach is currently co-located with DXB tower, and is expected to move to JXB in the near future, serving both airports from the same approach unit. The upshot is mainly that if you're joining now as an approach controller, it's best to get a flat/villa half way between the airports which, luckily enough, fits where most DXB controllers live anyway. |
Thanks Scoob. Thats basically what I heard, just wanted to confirm, and thanks for the other info.:ok:
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mr.777
Only problem is that the allowance isn't nearly enough to let you rent something comparable to all the other guys in the same area - rents have gone up so ballistically in even the last 6 months that you'll be very hard pressed to find 3 bedrooms for that price - let's hope that the rumours are correct! (I'll be joining you too, in January). :ok: |
Thank you people for all the useful info.
I would like to know: Does Serco own apartments or complexes in the UAE renting it out to their staff, or is it all open market now? Are people generally staying for 5+ or more years, or is there a constant renewal of Serco employees? |
(Kertez....)
The watchman just confirmed today that a 3-bedroom in Shk Tahnoon Bldg (OLD building), Abu Dhabi is now 250,000 Dhs annually. Same flat in 2005 was aprx. 60,000 Dhs = increase of 315% |
Not a done deal yet but I am also down to start DXB in Jan with quite a few others. Having done a lot of research I have to say 210,000AED for accommodation for married/kids is very low indeed and has me concerned as this basically puts the reason for my move to Dubai in jeopardy.
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Proven Right
I think all the points listed here have proven me right. If you are coming to Dubai and wanting something decent to live in (ie:a two-three bedroom house in a not so flashy neighbourhood) then expect to fork out from your pocket. There may not be income tax here but there are deductions everywhere on whatever you do. Dubai is staring to become uncompetitive cos of the greed of a part of the population. In times of crisis like these I wonder whether these same people realise that they are living in a real world where their bubble can really pop in their face!!:eek:
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Hold your cash in Swiss Francs accounts...you will see why
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Track Coastal Just not with UBS - you will see why!!!
As for renting, I agree entirely with mickrobbo and The Falcon. Having followed the market fairly closely for the last year or so to see where I will stand in january, I'm pretty disappointed that it is completely impossible to rent a 3 bed villa, even in Mirdif, without forking out another 50,000 chips from my own pocket. (Yes, Red Dragon I know you told me so but at the time it was 10 grand, not 50.) I guess all we can do is hope that either the allowance will catch up or the rents will crash, but I wouldn't like to bet which will happen first (curret rumours not withstanding). Now, what do I do with all those swiss francs that UBS currently has?!......:cool: |
Now, what do I do with all those swiss francs that UBS currently has?!. |
Bubble waiting to EXPLODE
@ YellowSnow
Salary (every ATCO earns the same) 34,089 AED PM (£5165) :=:=You are wrong mate…… As Red Dragon posted……… Basically yes, but then adjusted depending on the whinging/negotiating done with the boss. Payscales are not transparent and some at lower grades earn more than their immediate superiors. NOT ALL ATCO’s have the SAME Salaries here in DXB, & I am not including the ‘GRADE’ difference, being a SUP or WSTO or an A** Licker! A simple example between the same WSTO Grade, it seems management decide to pay the newest appointed MORE THAN the Most Senior ones! 2 weights 2 measures????( this is ONLY 1 example from A LOT I know of)! I've got to disagree with you Scooby on rental prices, having only recently gone through it. 180-190K in JLT is about right, we've only paid 200k in The Links, for a new build 2 bed, 1600 sqft fantastic views and quality fittings. Looking in todays property pages, apartment rentals haven't changed a jot in the last 3 months, and there is good availabilty to keep it this way, as opposed to a villa where there is huge under supply. You may pay up to 240K to live on the palm, but that is an extreme. Agree with everyhting else, landlords here are greedy, evil, arrogant, ignorant, greedy, evil.....people, almost as bad as estate agents, who are just simply lazy and useless here @Trotsky Is the financial crisis having an effect in the UAE also or does money continue to flow from the ground Slowly Slowly MONEY will really start FLOWING in an UNSTOPPABLE FLOW out of our pockets with the inflation! You need to really have a good chat with the guys living here…Start from Schooling, Accomodation, SALIK & last but not least FUEL!! @The Falcon To those considering coming over here be ready to deduct a significant amount from you salary for accomodation unless of course you want to live downtown in a rundown flat. There are no taxes here but they are actually everywhere. Housing is just as expensive as New york (or more) now and the governtment is doing nothing about it. Many companies are relocating for this same reason as now its spiraling beyond control! Well said , pretty accurate reply…..Well you can also dare to live in a shared Villa like some ‘geriatric’ personnel……………Even though the Municipality is giving a hard time to Landlords to stop the Villa Sharing, unless you’re a family! @Tower Ranger geriatric? Speak for yourself old boy!! The average age of the Tower guys in Dubai is probably younger than at any Uk unit. The five year requirement is/was a Govt. requirement but if you have the proven ability then come and have a go!! It is true, but it depends WHERE YOU COME FROM, & WHO YOU KNOW TOO! @Scooby Don’t Falcon - I would expect there to be an announcement in the near future which will make you somewhat happier. Serco management are aware of the housing situation and, I believe, would like to do something about it. We are having meetings with the big cheese…a.k.a EBM & discussing what can (COULD) be improved in the near future……. We are hoping that IF there’s an increase in January, it TRULY REFLECTS on the Spiraling Inflation here! Lets keep our fingers crossed & see what happens! @ direct.no.speed Has anyone taken their pets with them? Issues with accomodation? Some ATCOs have pets here, but you gotta be careful when movinghere..First of all it depends where SERCO provides temporary accommodation…..some places do not allow pets….. Secondly, on 7Days Newspaper there was a Front page article, that tenants had to get rid of their pets at once…So you gotta really check & check if you decide to bring a pet with you or else purchase one locally….. Mind you, you can find baboons strolling the streets daily…where they live…….you wouldn’t wana know! @skybound1 Sorry to deviate from serco, but I noticed at the back of flight international GAL is looking for ATC' s, instructors and admin staff, any idea what the pay/conditions/contracts are offered? These positions are offered for Airports in & around Abu Dhabi & Al Ain…… There are rumours that in Abu Dhabi they wana get rid of SERCO in TWR/APP Contract….. @ TheFalcon Finally my point is this, if what Scooby Don't said and improvements do not materialise we will be shortly sliding back to pre January conditions (obviously it seems you were not here then). The package is good probably among the best in the world and we shouldn't settle for anything less at any time.Taking away a month's salary for accom (and I know some newbies are paying even more than this) is not acceptable. The money is there and if you are sceptical just ask around and see how much the new Airport Safety Mananger is getting for his toils. You will be shocked!! Again WELL SAID, the package is really good, and BEING a TAX-FREE place…But FOR HOW LONG??? We are in the last quarter of 2008…& we have had ONE resignation…… Next Year, its gonna be approximately a minimum SIX (6) resigning……. Conclusion, SERCO have to start thinking on the near future to retain people & attract newbies…….or else will have to start playing CATCH-Up AGAIN! Let us hope that something serious will be done to stop this! @ mr.777 One other thing, and this is purely hearsay so I apologise in advance if its a load of b*llox...i read that the days of tax-free living in UAE may be numbered and that the govt were considering bringing in some form of income tax at some point in the future (i.e not the immediate future). Any truth in this? SALIK is the first proof! This is a TAX-FREE place on our EARNINGS, but NOT on whatever you purchase! It is rumoured that VAT will slowly be introduced, but that will be the day & asking for trouble = KHALLAS to the UAE:D @ mickrobbo Not a done deal yet but I am also down to start DXB in Jan with quite a few others. Having done a lot of research I have to say 210,000AED for accommodation for married/kids is very low indeed and has me concerned as this basically puts the reason for my move to Dubai in jeopardy You have done your homework well it seems.. I and the other UAE ATCOs who post here are not discouraging anyone from joining us, but sadly AND truly the property prices & lease rents are just a joke! We all choose to live in a place of our liking.. but of course AT A PRICE! If someone lived in a townhouse or a villa, it’s gonna be REALLY REALLY HARD to find something suitable with our present accommodation allowance! With AED210k for married with kids, you will be lucky to find a decent 2 b/r ‘villa’ (Townhouse) in Springs which is not so big approx 1700sqft.. As YellowSnow posted you can opt for an apartment.. but who wants to live in an apartment if you lived in a better luxury? For us who have been here quite a long time, it is easier now, but we have also have had our fair share of despair & frustrations, but we must also not forget that things have improved drastically lately…. We all want more n more n more, that means more beer to flow @ d pub too! :E All those who have posted here have put valid & true posts, which unless you are ‘really living it’ you would really be shocked when faced with all these issues once new recruits make a move here! INSH’ALLAH we can get an improved package, & hopefully our Management addresses the issues with DCA for a drastically improved package!! Good Luck to All joiners, excuse me for the long post, but been away from holidays away from it all…… |
Would have thought that things are smooth here in the Pit.....
Let's be realistic, apart from the inflation, accomodation is a real big issue! Let's hope that something fruitful comes out of these meetings with the big boss! One last thing, for those joining us in the Pit (but) for Jebel Ali, it is delayed AGAIN! Target Date JUNE 2009... I bet December 2009..........:ugh: |
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is it difficult to live in the Middle East?
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