Another rumor question
 

I was told by a coworker who is in contact with somebody there that the is now an age limit of 50 for new hires there. Any truth to this?

Not so many vacancies it seems
 

I've been 'pushing the doors' and trying in vain to secure an ATCO post in the UAE. The impression I'm getting is that there isn't necessarily a big demand for ATCOs there at the moment. So far, I've discovered that there are around 20 applications from ATCOs seeking a job at Abu Dhabi and only 2 vacancies. Ras Al Khaimah are introducing radar this summer but are fully staffed. I got no joy from Dubai either.

I'm told that there may be opportunities at Sharjah which is Tower only but I'm really looking for a Tower/APR mix. It seems that the number of units where you can do both is forever reducing.

For those who are controlling in the sand pit, how easy is it to move between units? Would it be worthwhile considering a post in Sharjah for a few years with a view to making the side-ways step to the likes of OMAA or OMDB after a while or is this very unlikely?

Any suggestions or advice appreciated.

Feel free to PM.

over 50's
 

One over 50 joining in March. I would see more the problem being getting in as we are technically overstaffed!!

Desert Hunter - I wouldn't bank on a move from unit to unit, but it has been done before. I know of moves from Al Ain and Abu Dhabi to Dubai, and a current Sharjah guy is apparently moving to Dubai, all on the ex-pat side. At least one local has moved units too, and for them that's a change of employer.

Desrt Hunter
 

Sharjah sign you up for a 3year contract and you stuck there. GCAA only allow 3year inactive license and then it expires, so the 3 years they make you sign, is actually a catch, cos there is no guarentee for a transfer and they will use that as an excuse to keep you there. salary for new recruits is 20000dhs/month takehome, 90000dhs/pa housing and a 30000dhs for furniture. All controllers working for few years dont even get 90000k for housing, only between 55k and 90k. Each and everyone gets a different allowance. And all the filthy old furniture that were in storage, were given to the older staff as a bonus. They still waiting on the increase that was due in January.

Over 50
 

Just be informed that recently a Yank has been told very nicely that, it's most probable that he won't get an offer due to his age.........

Although he was indirectly told this, he was also told that you never know what the future holds......

Perhaps SERCO are already gearing up for the mass exodus in the coming future.....

Oh how ......

INDISPENSABLE........................

You really don't have a clue do you prowler

:hmm:

I have a feeling their OJTI's will disagree quite strongly with you on this:=

Verci,

What, no Theakstons today? You're losing your touch!! :p

Your right mate....I do!

Handing my license in at the start of each shift in a hope of getting it back at the end was the norm, and I supposedly had one of the best ones with 22 years on the job to his name!! :eek:

Personally, I would have scrubbed him end week 2, that would have saved my hair loss and drinking problem setting in (no comments from the cheap seats :E)!!

Verci Fox3I believe I rest my case, Verci!!
Maybe you were too busy thinking about Theakston's instead of actually paying attention to what was going on at your unit:rolleyes:

Fox, check PM's, thanks

A no-strip environment... you don't know how lucky you are... :{

Verci
I appreciate your concern for details, but it seems I have to repeat myself already:

I don't really care what the DG or other managers at the time thought, I think the comments from people who actually worked with this group (OJTI's) speak for themselves.

@ Fox3snapshot

Hei mate, I guess you'd better focus on the experiment from the East, down @ your ACC, as you don't have any idea wats gonna happen up the road, next door!

And I stand to agree on what has been posted, by prowler, & that you'd be surprised on the personnel planning to walk out & away from the pit!

Although we are told that we are sort of 'over-staffed', we will still need to RETAIN personnel from resigning, either goin back home or else......off to ASA.......:D

Vercingetorix:
Who knows? Maybe you should direct that question to the manager in charge of operations at the time. He should be able to answer you quite quickly:ok:

Which unit are you referring to?

Probably best get that cleared up before I restate my position cause it ain't the consensus at mine :rolleyes:

Tin-Bullet,

I assume you are referring to Dubai. Would you like to enlighten us all as to why there are people planning to walk?

RD

We certainly agree on this point :ok:, time will show if anything will change for the better.

Make mine a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster:\

Out for a while
 

I think it is enough!!!!!
In FAA/NATS they do not recognise or give opportunity to any foreign national. But the problem with ME is that the opportunities are given to controllers from few selected countries;;; unfortunately by the persons who are from these countries and are in decision making postions. Personally I would not prefer to go to ME . But I certainly wish this monopoly is done away with.
I think it is unfair to quote case of Malaysian controllers; I know there will be numerous examples of controllers from the selcted countries;;; not reaching the standard. Controllers are good or bad independent of where they come from. I know if you come and handle traffic in India ( I am sure that time will also come) ; you will also struggle to meet the Standard or QRs.
It is a clear case of internal/international politics;;; you wanted to prove yourselves right.
Already a sense of insecurity.

In cricket it takes only one ball to get world's greatest batsman out;; Likewise in ATC it takes only one lapse of concentration to lose your license, however good you have been in your whole career. There are no best/worst controllers; it is an art by which you apply ICAO standards. These standard are same everywhere i.e. 3 or 5 miles in radar are same everywhere. All controllers share same passion and pride in their work.

CHEERS AND GOOD LUCK

There is an 'air of uncertainty' regarding security.....maintaining job position.......If you are 'living it', I'm sure you would agree about this, even though rumours are rumours, but with certain rumours going round in circles that either a 'paycut', 'overstaffing', & being told that we are 'indispensable', certainly is not what we are asking for! Some of our mates leaving, is because they are fed up of it all here, & wana go back home, besides others, who are seeking greener pastures......

And after being told 'verbally' that our allowances or salary should be reviewed, at least to reflect the inflation, & now not even a Dirham, then you wonder why, why certain personnel are exploring other options, especially South-East bound....


That reply meant no offense to the famous 6 down at UAE ACC, it was only not to confuse what's happening in UAE ACC & Dubai APP! Excuse me, if you thought it was an offense!

Tin-Bullet,

Rumours will always do the rounds, particularly at times like these. But a little common sense always helps to see the true picture. I am, as you say, 'living it' but am sure that anyone working for Serco shouldn't be worrying about their future in Dubai. It will only be those within the organisation (outside of Serco)that have been deemed 'surplus to requirement' that may be subject to a redeployment. There may be a bit of fat in the system but that will play an important role when the time comes to move down the road.

As for people getting fed up and moving to greener pastures, that will always happen. Always has. However in these post payrise times any move anywhere will certainly mean a considerable paycut. Of course being in Dubai is a lifestyle choice and some come here for a limited time, but considering the pay here now, justifying moving on or going home is a much tougher decision.

Gut feeling - no payrise (or cut) or increase in allowances and no layoffs.

:ok:

RD

Training in the ME
 

I was wondering why only UAE was being denigrated for the Malaysian fiasco, Muscat also tried Sri Lanka and the Phillipines and that was an unmitigated disaster.
It was not through lack of training or OJTI efforts that they didn't make the grade. I had the dubious pleasure of watching one of the guys in the sim bang just about every aircraft into each other without fear or favour. Once he was allowed onto live traffic (a travesty all in itself) he then attempted at regular intervals to do the same thing again! He was apparently very good where he came from, he was just hopeless in Muscat. that was I believe the case with the guys from Malaysia.

Endorsing and confirming DD's experiences, the whole 'experiment' was a fiasco.

The saddest thing was that the individuals concerned were typically innocent parties, nice enough fellah's and capable in their own environment.

The spanners that decided to run the program however need to be isolated here as the catalyst to an embarrassing, time wasting and money consuming exercise :ouch:

Needless to say I am sure we have not learned our lessons and we will at some point go down that road again :suspect:

P.S RD...thanks once again for your constructive perspective on things, unfortunately it will be lost on some (no names will be mentioned!) :ok:

Yeah....I believe even recently they even tried it with a couple of Irish guys......:eek:

May I venture a query as to the reason for high holding at DESDI? I have had two experiences now, firstly 4 years ago just after the BAH F1 Grand Prix, we were cleared into DESDI hold at FL280 and then given a descent clearance to Alt 10,000 on the first outbound leg. Last week we were cleared into DESDI hold at FL390 with a descent to FL330 about 5 miles out from the hold. Subsequently cleared to FL250 and lower with several radio encouragements to increase our ROD, admittedly a large CB was affecting the controllers scope to manoeuver. I also know from reading these pages that there are several factors outside the ATCO's control which limit tactical controlling and it appears that the situation will not improve soon, but I would genuinely be interested in some feedback for these profiles. We did out best to limit our speed, but we cannot put flap out in the 330 until 20,000' and at a TAS of 420 KIAS we cover a huge amount of territory, I was concerned at one stage that we would set off the Iranians on 'guard'.

Best Regards

TOD

I'll do my limited best. You don't have to worry about the Iranians, it is our job to inform them that you might stray into their backyard. And they usually don't mind.

The increase in the rate of descent is to ensure you keep your spot in the stack and to make space for all the others approaching to take up the hold. If for example you are number 5 and already established in the hold at FL290, and other traffic approaches the hold at FL250, it may end up that he becomes number 5 and you, well, number 6. From the cockpit point of view it is good to stay high in the hold and conserve juice, but the higher you stay the more chances of somebody sneaking in below you. There is NO way to avoid this, as the dynamics and layout of the airspace dictates that this will occur. The best option would be to get as low as possible as soon as possible. The flipside of the above mentioned also happens. Because of the positioning and spread of traffic flying around its own arse at DESDI, you may go from #4 to #1. Then it would help to be low.

The unrestricted descent from FL280 to A100 is very situation specific and I cannot comment intelligently on it.

Start rant. Slightly off topic. If you are inbound to DESDI or BUBIN, don't for a second think that because you are presently in front of say Birdseed69, that you are going to stay in front. A lot of times the situation dictates that numbers 1, 2 and 4 run through but number 3 gets a hold to change places with number 4. This event is dictated by the DXB APP spacing requirements, there is nothing you can do about it and the best is to accept it and keep quiet. And don't play the "you are victimising us" card. The law of averages say that it will happen to EK more than the rest, for obvious reasons. And for Air Arabia: The correct readback to "route DESDI and hold" is "ABY123, route DESDI and hold", NOT "confirm hold, but we are inbound for Sharjah, are you sure?".Rant over.

Sorry for the VLP Thridle, but unfortunately their are so many factors that come into play that a short answer is a bit difficult.

Desdi Hold
 

And for Air Arabia: The correct readback to "route DESDI and hold" is "ABY123, route DESDI and hold", NOT "confirm hold, but we are inbound for Sharjah, are you sure?

I only had to hold once at DESDI, and that was inbound to RAK, and I had the same exchange. Normally we drift north of DESDI, and then direct to RAK.

My thanks to all the controllers in UAE DXB etc, for the excellent service they provide the small fry, Thanks.

glf

Cheers Gulfstream :ok: appreciate the feedback....

Truth is with the levels of traffic we are witnessing now in this region and in in the case of UAE, the days of ol have gone where we could always get the OMSJ or other UAE bound traffic in without delay. It has become far to hazardous on occasions to run them through or north of the stacks so they have to join the queue to ensure a safe arrival flow.

I don't think some of the operators in this region have the big picture when it comes to the capacity problems being faced in the ATC environment. The restrictions and shortfalls are often not the line controllers doing and they do the best they can with a bad situation.

With the unprecedented growth this region has experienced and with very little prior planning by the authorities to accommodate the growth, the reality is we are over extended and constantly trying to play catchup.

As horrible as it is to say (as unfortunately the welfare and careers of many have been affected) the economic downturn could be our saving grace to try and get on top of this whole palaver!! :sad:

Gulfstreamaviator is always a pleasure to have on the frequency. :ok:

Hi,

just a heads up. Optimum altitude for holding in the B777 is approx 20,000ft. However there is not a huge amount of difference in fuel burn whilst in a holding pattern between 1500 ft and 35,000ft, only a few hundred kilos.

A heavy B773 will be minimum clean at approx 230 kts. Once we start configuring we reduce speed by 20 kts for each flap setting, i.e flap 1 210kts, flap 5 190 kts. We can then reduce to flap 15/20 and fly approx minimum 170 kts. These speeds obviously vary with aircraft weight. If you request 160 kts then we would need to lower the gear and select flap 25/30.

In EK we have to have landing flap selected by 1500 ft AGL, so 170 kts to 5 nm would work.

For Dubai, give us a dedicated delivery frequency and an approx start up time when busy. That way we can give the pax some good info on delays.

I am sure these things have all been discussed before, but i thought i would mention them again.

Other than that keep up the good work.

Rgds.

The Delivery Frequency is 120.35 and if you are delayed just ask us your number in the queue and we`ll give you our best guess. It is usually first come first served although your Company has decided some EK flights are to have priority over others. However there are some other factors that may mean that you get a different start sequence, your SID, your stand, current Flow Control restrictions and recently the weather!
There is no point calling back every 5 mins to check for an update and even less point in trying to jump the queue by changing over to Ground yourself cos you`ll just get put back to Delivery and use up more RT time.

Sharjah Tower
 

I am anticipating an offer from SERCO soon. I am retired FAA, been out and relaxing for 2 1/2 years. Does Sharjah really require a 3 year contract? What is the penalty if a person leaves early. I was hoping to to 1 or 2 years. Seems pay is about 200K USD per year plus hosing, is that accurate?

Thanks

LL

Sharjah
 

Heyy LL where did you get 200K from? You nearly made me fall of my chair with laughter especially when you mentioned plus housing!

NOONE earns that much as an operational controller here in the middle east let alone Sharjah. At best you can expect little over half of that from which you have to pay to live in some crappy accommodation.You pay a penalty for staying less generally having to pay back some of the expenses and training.

By the way have you seen your prospective workplace lately? Are you sure you want to come out of retirement for that ??????

Your call don't let me frighten you I'm sure you will enjoy it there. :oh:

Thanks for your reply. To be honest I do not want to leave home.

Boys&Girls good luck with the coming WX all week,they say its gonna be bad.
OMFJ no worries,your block start is always cancelled like 23 h in 24 h:ok:

Don't give bad reputation for OMFJ, we are preety much open, and the weather is the best in the region, you can bet on it!
Good luck with your WX, we'll think twice weather to accept divergions, but you are free to make a call.

WX
 

If your an autocamel driver, take my advise and ring in sick!!!! It couldn't have been comfortable...if your a controller...enjoy the days off and have a beer!!!!!:ok:

weather schmether...
 

Lovely in Shannon today, spring has sprung, birds singing etc etc.

Haven't seen an aircraft divert around weather since arriving:ok:

Sorry guys,
Our apron is full for tonight, no divergions, please.
We have to wait our sheikh to build another apron, soooooon, inshalah.