July 03 course to become Jan 04?
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Wivenhoe, not too far from the Clacton VOR
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In an attempt to put the record straight, the following is a copy of an email sent today (12/02) to all staff at CATC (hereinafter known as DAT&S) setting out what is happening vis-a-vis recruitment, stopping courses and why. I have to say that it is something some of us have been arguing for for some time, and seems eminently sensible.
There has recently been speculation about our intentions regarding the next few intakes of trainees, and I thought it might be helpful to tell you what's going on. As many of you know, when we stopped shift work here after 11 September, we kept our commitments to those trainees to whom we had already made employment offers. This, coupled with a shortage of area instructors, which has restricted the size of ACS1 and ACS2, has given us a significant backlog of holding trainees - in fact, we now have the equivalent of almost one complete course holding. Given that fact, plus our plan to stop using trainees as ATSAs at Swanwick, and the need to introduce our new course structure starting in 2004, it makes absolute sense to
reduce the number of new trainees coming into the system.
Although the final decision has not yet been made, it is likely that we will drop the course scheduled to start at the beginning of July. It may be that we will also have to reduce intake numbers again later in the year, but we are still working on that, and how best to programme instructor training for the new ACS course. Because of the number of holders we have here, plus the
number of trainees replacing ATSAs at Swanwick, it will not mean a reduction in the number of people undergoing validation training or a slowing down of the delivery of new operational controllers.
Finally, you may be interested to know that due to a combination of the efforts of Recruitment Services, and an apparent change in the labour market, there are currently sufficient successful applicants to fill our needs for the next twelve months or so. This contrasts with the last few years, when we were having to work very hard to get enough people through the door at the start of each course.
Well, there you are then, from the horse's mouth. I shall probably now have to adopt a new nom de guerre, but then again, maybe not.
Sooner or later I shall see some of you here at CATC..oops, DAT&S!
There has recently been speculation about our intentions regarding the next few intakes of trainees, and I thought it might be helpful to tell you what's going on. As many of you know, when we stopped shift work here after 11 September, we kept our commitments to those trainees to whom we had already made employment offers. This, coupled with a shortage of area instructors, which has restricted the size of ACS1 and ACS2, has given us a significant backlog of holding trainees - in fact, we now have the equivalent of almost one complete course holding. Given that fact, plus our plan to stop using trainees as ATSAs at Swanwick, and the need to introduce our new course structure starting in 2004, it makes absolute sense to
reduce the number of new trainees coming into the system.
Although the final decision has not yet been made, it is likely that we will drop the course scheduled to start at the beginning of July. It may be that we will also have to reduce intake numbers again later in the year, but we are still working on that, and how best to programme instructor training for the new ACS course. Because of the number of holders we have here, plus the
number of trainees replacing ATSAs at Swanwick, it will not mean a reduction in the number of people undergoing validation training or a slowing down of the delivery of new operational controllers.
Finally, you may be interested to know that due to a combination of the efforts of Recruitment Services, and an apparent change in the labour market, there are currently sufficient successful applicants to fill our needs for the next twelve months or so. This contrasts with the last few years, when we were having to work very hard to get enough people through the door at the start of each course.
Well, there you are then, from the horse's mouth. I shall probably now have to adopt a new nom de guerre, but then again, maybe not.
Sooner or later I shall see some of you here at CATC..oops, DAT&S!
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: N.Yorks
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bern Oulli
Thanks for the heads up with this, helps clarify things that are in the system and waiting for a definate start date and how long we have to wait to start training.
What I take from this - correct me if I am wrong - is that the July 03 course will be closed to all new starters in order to process those already within the system. It would follow (if no more course reductions take place) that the entire course of new starters due to commence training in July 03 would move to Oct 03, Oct 03 moves to Jan 04 etc, would this make sense.
Once again thanks again.
Thanks for the heads up with this, helps clarify things that are in the system and waiting for a definate start date and how long we have to wait to start training.
What I take from this - correct me if I am wrong - is that the July 03 course will be closed to all new starters in order to process those already within the system. It would follow (if no more course reductions take place) that the entire course of new starters due to commence training in July 03 would move to Oct 03, Oct 03 moves to Jan 04 etc, would this make sense.
Once again thanks again.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Wivenhoe, not too far from the Clacton VOR
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Goidel.
To be honest I do not know the details of who is going to be on what course and who will hold for how long. I could ask a few discreet questions, if the info isn't super secret.
To be honest I do not know the details of who is going to be on what course and who will hold for how long. I could ask a few discreet questions, if the info isn't super secret.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: South Coast, UK
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Email NATS!
I've emailed the following people about all this. No response yet, but maybe if we all hassle them together they'll sort something out:
Andy Hutchinson (Recruitment Manager): [email protected]
Rob Whitaker (CATC Business Manager)
[email protected]
I realise that's not the best CATC contact, but its the only public one I could find on the net.
The following people might also be good to email:
Chris Gibson-Smith - Chairman
Richard Everitt – Chief Executive Officer
Colin Chisholm – Chief Operating Officer
Let us know what happens!
Andy Hutchinson (Recruitment Manager): [email protected]
Rob Whitaker (CATC Business Manager)
[email protected]
I realise that's not the best CATC contact, but its the only public one I could find on the net.
The following people might also be good to email:
Chris Gibson-Smith - Chairman
Richard Everitt – Chief Executive Officer
Colin Chisholm – Chief Operating Officer
Let us know what happens!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: South Coast, UK
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got a response! Good luck for the rest of you too!
cb9002
cb9002
Hi, your e mail to Rob Whitaker has been passed to me. There may be some changes to intake numbers that may delay people starting, although these have not definately been decided yet.
I am forwarding your e mail to Andy Hutchinson head of recruitment services who may be able to put your mind at rest regarding your October 2003 start date. Looking forward to meeting you when you join the college.
kind regards,
Freddie Harvey
HR DAT&S
NATS HURN
* 7 231 2305
* mail to: [email protected]
I am forwarding your e mail to Andy Hutchinson head of recruitment services who may be able to put your mind at rest regarding your October 2003 start date. Looking forward to meeting you when you join the college.
kind regards,
Freddie Harvey
HR DAT&S
NATS HURN
* 7 231 2305
* mail to: [email protected]
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: S coast
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dances
I note that new entrants will have an idea of where they're being posted at the end of it all.
I recall that this was the system in place in the late 70's & early 80's when your course number streamed you for Area or Airports;
evens & odds respectively.
So the wheel seems to have turned full circle again over a 20 year period.....how much wasted money and manpower has this 20-year 'experiment' cost I wonder?
TC
I note that new entrants will have an idea of where they're being posted at the end of it all.
I recall that this was the system in place in the late 70's & early 80's when your course number streamed you for Area or Airports;
evens & odds respectively.
So the wheel seems to have turned full circle again over a 20 year period.....how much wasted money and manpower has this 20-year 'experiment' cost I wonder?
TC
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 24/7 Hardcore Heaven
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E-mailed Andy [email protected]equently passed onto Ruth Wallace from Recruitment.
She basically said nothing defininte has been decided yet regarding delayed intake.
Sit tight I guess and watch this space.......unless anyone else has info.
She basically said nothing defininte has been decided yet regarding delayed intake.
Sit tight I guess and watch this space.......unless anyone else has info.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: By the Sea-side
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carbide -
Not a valid argument really. The T & D ATCOs at LACC number about 60 at any time. They need to be trained before they are any use to anyone. Whilst training as assistants, they are not of any real use until they are solo, and after a short period of useful employment, they start training again to do their REAL job. In the meantime they have forgotten a good percentage of what they learned at Hurn.
They would need to be replaced, sure, so that the work gets done, but it would only take half the number of ATSAs to fill the posts, as once trained, they stay doing the job.
Tada! Just saved the company about £750,000, increased the number of ATSA posts for the shrinking ATSA cadre, and improved trainees chances of validation. Even our management can't fail to see the plus side of this one.
Oh, and reduced the time taken between starting at the college, and earning ATCO 2 money for subsequent new-starter LACC ATCOs.
Not a valid argument really. The T & D ATCOs at LACC number about 60 at any time. They need to be trained before they are any use to anyone. Whilst training as assistants, they are not of any real use until they are solo, and after a short period of useful employment, they start training again to do their REAL job. In the meantime they have forgotten a good percentage of what they learned at Hurn.
They would need to be replaced, sure, so that the work gets done, but it would only take half the number of ATSAs to fill the posts, as once trained, they stay doing the job.
Tada! Just saved the company about £750,000, increased the number of ATSA posts for the shrinking ATSA cadre, and improved trainees chances of validation. Even our management can't fail to see the plus side of this one.
Oh, and reduced the time taken between starting at the college, and earning ATCO 2 money for subsequent new-starter LACC ATCOs.
Last edited by Dances with Boffins; 17th Feb 2003 at 09:54.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: By the Sea-side
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
S'right. We're just changing the nozzle shape on the Play-Doh machine, and then we'll be back pumpin' out ATCOs just as fast as Berni & Co can teach 'em.
Anyone Know why the signature thingy has stopped working?
Anyone Know why the signature thingy has stopped working?
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dances,
Like your reasoning, I wish it could be that simple. If there is a company that could get it wrong, then NATS would be my choice.
Currently there is about 6 months of useful ATSA time out of a T&D before their SVC. Once the waiting time for SVCs goes down in the 6 months of no College output there will be a shortfall of ATSAs. Also, and correct me if I am wrong, there is currently a recruitment embargo on all positions except TATCs.
I think we may see sector closures in the not too distant future because of lack of ATSAs. I really hope that NATS will sort things out.
CB
Like your reasoning, I wish it could be that simple. If there is a company that could get it wrong, then NATS would be my choice.
Currently there is about 6 months of useful ATSA time out of a T&D before their SVC. Once the waiting time for SVCs goes down in the 6 months of no College output there will be a shortfall of ATSAs. Also, and correct me if I am wrong, there is currently a recruitment embargo on all positions except TATCs.
I think we may see sector closures in the not too distant future because of lack of ATSAs. I really hope that NATS will sort things out.
CB
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: sunny south now....
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe some new news?
Firstly thanks to the oh so lovely Min Rest (and she is!!), not only are you gorgeous but you gave me a nice heads up on this topic!
I spoke to one of the recruitment guys and the latest is as follows....
the April course has now moved forward by one week to the last week in March. the powers that be are then looking to see how things fit and will go from there.
the official line is that the JULY'03 course is not yet cancelled but numbers may be reduced.
i also heard that recruitment will cease for a couple of months probably when the move from London to the south occurs!
what happens will then be decided late March early April.
i myself am supposed to be on the JUL'03 course but then i guess we will have to wait and see about that.
hope some of its useful.
Crewman
I spoke to one of the recruitment guys and the latest is as follows....
the April course has now moved forward by one week to the last week in March. the powers that be are then looking to see how things fit and will go from there.
the official line is that the JULY'03 course is not yet cancelled but numbers may be reduced.
i also heard that recruitment will cease for a couple of months probably when the move from London to the south occurs!
what happens will then be decided late March early April.
i myself am supposed to be on the JUL'03 course but then i guess we will have to wait and see about that.
hope some of its useful.
Crewman
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Surrey
Age: 46
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crewman
If we're supposed to be on the Jul 03 course and the lovely MR gets put back, then I think we should ask to be put back as well just to make sure she can cook for both of us!!!!
FB
If we're supposed to be on the Jul 03 course and the lovely MR gets put back, then I think we should ask to be put back as well just to make sure she can cook for both of us!!!!
FB
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very off topic, but did you get my email MR? I'm not sure I sent it to the right address.
BTW I spoke to James today- their course starts in Maastricht at the beginning of May as I thought. They've got their exams in a month, and next week is the infamous 'exercise 16' week.
When they get to Maastricht, that's about a month after our course finishes in the sim, so I may be around... on the other hand, I may not!!!!
BTW I spoke to James today- their course starts in Maastricht at the beginning of May as I thought. They've got their exams in a month, and next week is the infamous 'exercise 16' week.
When they get to Maastricht, that's about a month after our course finishes in the sim, so I may be around... on the other hand, I may not!!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Age: 44
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes hun I did get your e-mail, you know how crap I am at replying!
Will probably try to make it over April time it that's ok, will be sad to miss James tho! Tell him Bobby Big Letter says Hi!
Love to MST.
BTW can I just clarify that no one posting these messages has EVER tasted my cooking. I may be awful.
FB had the oddest dream with you and crewman in it - how's the leg doing, cause it was in plaster in my dream!
crewman DO NOT type a word................
MR XxX
Will probably try to make it over April time it that's ok, will be sad to miss James tho! Tell him Bobby Big Letter says Hi!
Love to MST.
BTW can I just clarify that no one posting these messages has EVER tasted my cooking. I may be awful.
FB had the oddest dream with you and crewman in it - how's the leg doing, cause it was in plaster in my dream!
crewman DO NOT type a word................
MR XxX
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: sunny south now....
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is sooo not fair!!!
you cant post a message telling all the peeps that read this about the dream and not expect me to reply!!!!!
but as i am a gentleman i will honour your request for silence!!
we are way off the mark now about the topic but then it doesn't really matter for the moment does it!
right i'm off, just to let you know "the lovely" min rest, the cooking is a bonus!!!!!!
sweet dreams baby
crewman xxx
but as i am a gentleman i will honour your request for silence!!
we are way off the mark now about the topic but then it doesn't really matter for the moment does it!
right i'm off, just to let you know "the lovely" min rest, the cooking is a bonus!!!!!!
sweet dreams baby
crewman xxx
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Age: 44
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
crewman you are sooooooooo thoughtful, sparing my blushes
Back on topic, has anyone heard anything else, or recieved any replies back from e-mails to Andy Hutchinson? A fully fledged ATCO friend of mine has been down at the college this week, but hasn't heard anything said of it.
Oh, the waiting is killing me.........
MR XxX
Back on topic, has anyone heard anything else, or recieved any replies back from e-mails to Andy Hutchinson? A fully fledged ATCO friend of mine has been down at the college this week, but hasn't heard anything said of it.
Oh, the waiting is killing me.........
MR XxX